ATP 5-set Records (five set)

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Bud, Jun 25, 2010.

  1. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

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    Well it would be incredibly silly to draw any conclusions from these statistics anyway.

    They're interesting just from an "interest" point of view, but they don't really illustrate anything. Eg, if Federer had lost more matches in straights rather than pushing them to 5, he'd have a better fifth set record, despite performing worse.
     
  2. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    When did he retire?

    ** updated **
     
  3. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Brilliant insight :roll:

    And if Federer never picked up a racquet, his 5-set record would be flawless :lol:
     
  4. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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  5. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

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    I think this is a good thread because it's interesting to see the stats. So don't think I'm trying to insult your thread or anything. :)

    But obviously placing too much weight on such stats results in treating a loss in straight sets as better than a loss in 5 sets.

    And equally, it rewards players for labouring to a 5 set victory over an opponent rather than beating them more rapidly in 3 or 4 sets.
     
  6. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    I'd prefer to lose in 5 sets rather than straight sets.
     
  7. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Good point. Statistics meaning nothing if you don't put them into perspective.
     
  8. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

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    Yes, exactly, that's what I said. :p

    I said placing too much weight on these stats makes a straight set loss look better than a 5 set loss (as it doesn't worsen the fifth set record), when obviously the 5 set loss is better.
     
  9. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    So, you're implying 5-set statistics aren't in 'perspective' ?

    Why don't you give us your perspective on what they mean or don't mean.
     
  10. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    We had a discussion about this last week, remember? When you claimed that Simon had a huge advantage over Federer in best of 5 set matches simply because he had better winning percentage in 5 set matches. We all saw what happened in the 5th set, Federer was the clutcher player. You insisted that Simon's 5 set record was infallible proof about his superior prowess over Federer in five set matches. You didnt consider the fact that 4/5 of Simon's five set wins came in the R128. Federer on the other hand has only lost five set matches in either the SF/Final stage of grand slams in the last 6 years.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  11. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Yeah and he stretched Fed and nearly won in 5-sets... all this while returning from a major injury that knocked him nearly out of the top 100. He wasn't even ranked here at the AO.

    5-set statistics are pretty good predictors of 5-set success ;)
     
  12. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Alexandr Dolgopolov d. Robin Soderling ;)

    Soderling's record updated

    Once again the historical 5-set stats prove to be pretty reliable predictors of 5-set success.

    - - -

    Going to add Dolgo to the list since he's now 3/1 (75.00%) in 5-setters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  13. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Alexandr Dolgopolov's 5-set record

    Alexandr Dolgopolov's 5-set record is 7-2 (77.77 winning percentage)

    2012 USO R128: Alexandr Dolgopolov d. Jesse Levine (3-6, 4-6, 6-4, 6-1, 6-2)

    2012 Australian Open R32: Bernard Tomic d. Alexandr Dolgopolov (4-6, 7-6, 7-6, 2-6, 6-3)
    2012 Australian Open R64: Alexandr Dolgopolov d. Tobias Kamke (4-6, 6-1, 6-1, 3-6, 8-6)
    2012 Australian Open R128: Alexandr Dolgopolov d. Greg Jones (1-6, 4-6, 6-1, 6-1, 6-2)
    2011 US Open R64: Alexandr Dolgopolov d. flavio Cipolla (6-0, 7-5, 2-6, 5-7, 6-4)
    2011 Australian Open R16 Alexandr Dolgopolov d. Robin Soderling (1-6, 6-3, 6-1, 4-6, 6-2)
    2011 Australian Open R32: Alexandr Dolgopolov d. Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (3-6, 6-3, 3-6, 6-1, 6-1)
    2010 Wimbledon R64: Jo-Wilfried Tsonga d. Alexandr Dolgopolov (6-4, 6-4, 6-7, 5-7, 10-8 )
    2010 Roland Garros R128: Alexandr Dolgopolov d. Arnaud Clement (3-6, 7-6, 3-6, 6-3, 6-3)
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  14. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    That is irrelevant. Just because a guy has a better 5 set record than Federer doesn't mean he will actually push Federer to a 5 setter. You are simply backtracking from your false claim by appealing to the fact that Simon is tough match up for Federer. You spefically claimed that he had a huge adavantage in 5 set matches and when we finally saw reality unfold before us at the AO, Simon got broken in the 4th game of the 5th set. :lol: Some advantage that was.


    5 setters dont tell jack diddly squat in many cases. Like Tsonga's clean-as-whistle 100% five set record.... lot of good it did him against Dolgo (who is 2-1 in five setter). He lost 6-1 in the 5th :lol: How about Mathieu beating Hewitt in a 5 setter at the USO? Tennis is an unpredictable game. 5th set stats are nice to have but one must always be aware of the dozens of other factors involved in a match.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  15. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    The bottom line is 5-set stats are good predictors of 5-set success (duh!). Any dunce would/should understand that.

    Anyway enough. If you want to debate 5-set stats, create a thread and do it there.
     
  16. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    The bottom line is that just because Simon had a higher winning percentage in 7 matches than Federer did in 31 matches doesn't mean he has a huge advantage in 5 set match. Indeed, this claim turned out right after we saw the match last week. Any dunce would/should agree that statistics need to be analyzed before they are shoved down people's throats.

    I was ready to leave it at that. You are the one who re instigated the conversation.
     
  17. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    OK. On ignore you go. I asked you nicely to take it to another thread.

    I don't want to pollute this thread with inane arguments.
     
  18. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Ignore list? Does that mean you won't quote anymore of my posts? That is a great thing.

    Also, you are the one who started this argument, moron. If you don't want arguments in this thread, don't respond to comments about them and fuel the fire.
     
  19. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

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    I do quite honestly fail to see how "percentage of best of fives that go to a fifth set won" predicts how good someone is at a best of 5 match.
     
  20. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Cilic and Isner updated :)

    - -

    If I miss any, let me know.
     
  21. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  22. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Where is Tsonga on the list? Monfils?? Chardy??? Etc.???? :confused:

    Until they update it and it appears accurate and complete, I'll keep this thread going. As it appears now, the ATP list is not even close to complete.

    The ATP also doesn't list the actual 5-set matches played.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  23. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    You can go to the individual players' profiles, click on 'match record' and see their 5 set record, as well as others like overall deciding set record (3rd or 5th set), record vs top 10, record in finals, etc.

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Jo-Wilfried-Tsonga.aspx?t=mr
    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Gael-Monfils.aspx?t=mr
    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Jeremy-Chardy.aspx?t=mr
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  24. Lemoned

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  25. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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  26. Lemoned

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    Yeah, Haas, Gonzalez, JMDP, etc... with the same reason probably
     
  27. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Again, you go to the individual player's profile, click on 'match record', and it has all of their records in 5 set matches, as well as in other such matches.
     
  28. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

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    Interesting: you can make an argument that the record in 5-set matches gives a good measure of in-match mental toughness.

    Guys like Nadal, Borg, Sampras, Lendl, and Becker -- known for their even-headed focus -- have nice records, while guys like Agassi, Federer, and Roddick -- known for mental lapses -- are more so-so. Mac was known for being able to channel his frustration into better play, and his record is good.
     
  29. RedHotRafa

    RedHotRafa Rookie

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    Rafa=5 set GOAT

    Given his three loses were to Prime Fed and Pretty Prime Hewitt

    Federer-Miami 2004 (F)
    Hewitt-Australian 2005 (R4) (Hewitt eventual Finalist, L to Safin)
    Federer-Wimbledon 2007 (F)

    All remembered off top of my head :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  30. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    If you click on Rafa's name in the OP, it will list every 5-set match played ;)

    BTW, he's 14/3 so you named all 3 of his losses :)
     
  31. RedHotRafa

    RedHotRafa Rookie

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    Oh well I rarely OP just title usually. lol

    But you can't expect me to remember all his 5 set wins but ill try

    14:
    2005 Rome Coria (F)
    2006 Rome Federer (F)
    2007 Australian Murray (R4)
    2007 Wimbledon Soderling (R3)
    2007 Wimbledon Youzhny (R4)
    2008 Wimbledon Federer (F)
    2009 Australian Open Verdasco (SF)
    2009 Australian Open Federer (F)
    2010 Wimbledon Haase (R2)
    2010 Wimbledon Petzschner (R3)

    I think I did pretty well. 10/14
     
  32. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Nadal, Berdych and Almagro to be updated soon :)

    The bright spot in Nadal's 5-set win today... he moves back to the top of the list ;)
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2011
  33. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I've updated Nadal's record.
     
  34. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Berdych, Almagro and Isner are also updated
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2011
  35. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Good job guys.
     
  36. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Need to update Davydenko and Melzer who both lost in 5 sets today.
     
  37. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yes. Are you having problems getting onto this site? I have for the last 3 hours or so.
     
  38. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Yes. Something is wrong with their servers.

    I'll update when they fix it.
     
  39. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Need to update Wawrinka and Tsonga
     
  40. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Falla/Chela going to 5

    Falla (Mustard) needs updating
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2011
  41. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Need to update Ferrer (Mustard) and Monfils
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2011
  42. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Updated Falla and Ferrer.
     
  43. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    All updated

    - -

    Murray currently at 2-2 with Troicki... will need updating tomorrow :)
     
  44. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    You've got Dolgopolov's winning percentage wrong in the OP, Bud :)
     
  45. DjokovicWinStreak

    DjokovicWinStreak Banned

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    :shock: :???:
     
  46. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Thanks.. corrected it
     
  47. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Murray needs an update :)
     
  48. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Updated Murray.
     
  49. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Someone post the updated list on this page please, im too lazy.
     
  50. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    The updated lists are always in posts #1 (OP) for active players and #3 (inactive players).
     

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