Azarenka cheated against Stephens?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Francis27, Jan 24, 2013.

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Did Azarenka cheat?

  1. Yes she cheated, she knew Stephens might catch up

    134 vote(s)
    83.8%
  2. No she did not cheat, it was an emergency

    26 vote(s)
    16.3%
  1. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    Almost a complete summary but not quite

    You left out the very issue that very possibly caused Vika the pet hamster to be out of sorts. It was at least 95 degrees on the court and the commentators had mentioned that several times. Vika never has reacted well to the heat. She fainted on court and had to be taken out in tha wheelchair. So the argument could be made that she lost conditioning due to the heat. Not sure if you are allowed to rest for 10 minutes when you lose conditioning or not. But I am surprised you did not mention the heat factor.
     
    #51
  2. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    Serena Williams threatened to shove a ball down the expletive throat of a lines person. She got defaulted for that and her fans dont blame her in the least. They feel it was warranted since they feel the lines person made a mistake in their eyes. Unfortunately, Serena would have been able to finish the match and possibly would have won the match if she didnt break the rules subsequent to what her fans thought was a missed call.
     
    #52
  3. Vanhool

    Vanhool Hall of Fame

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    Jeez it's like you never watched the match AND you can't read. They said that night it was a knee injury and a rib thing. If you've ever had a rib out, you'd know it's hard to breath and easy to fix. And you get evaluation time prior to treatment time. 2 min knee eval + 3 min knee treatment + 2 min rib eval + 3 min rib treatment = 10 minutes.
     
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  4. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    I mentioned the heat factor in another post of mine on the same subject. Personally, I cannot find anything wrong with taking an MTO for breathing problems. Obviously you can't play tennis if you can't breathe properly. Here you go:

    [...] My point was that the reason for the MTO is completely irrelevant in terms of hurting the opponent's rhythm and the worst moment for the MTO to happen is in the middle of the opponent's service game, which is what happened in the final. Big deal. Players have to handle that kind of stuff, it's their job. There is never a case where you could blame the final result on it. The rule says you're allowed an MTO. The rule doesn't say you have to PROVE the MTO was absolutely necessary. And that is not something up to the spectators to determine. If a player went so far as to take an MTO for no reason whatsoever, then it would be up to the doctor, trainer, ump or whatever other official to call it out. It is certainly not up to the spectator to pass that judgement. And regardless of the degree to which the MTO was vital (which is impossible for us to determine), the impact on the opponent is gonna be the same, so the opponent had better be able to cope with it, regardless of the justification for it.
    My other point was that they filmed her conversation with the trainer before the time out, so when she said she couldn't breathe, she wasn't making up something after the fact because I can see with my own eyes that's what she told the trainer during the match. To what extent the breathing issues were a serious problem? How should I know? I'm not a doctor/trainer and neither are you but if the AO doctor diagnoses that there is an issue with a rib, I fail to see what kind of insider info a message board poster has to categorically counter that statement. Could the 105 degree temperature have contributed to breathing problems? Maybe not, maybe it was just nerves but nobody can say it would be impossible either.
     
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  5. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    Actually, Serena didn't get defaulted for that. She received a second code violation, which resulted in a point penalty, and since Kim Clijsters had match point at the time, she won the match.
     
    #55
  6. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    Unfortunately, I've pointed that out 300 times over the last 3 years, and most people don't care to learn the difference.
     
    #56
  7. dafinch

    dafinch Banned

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    You wanna keep your head buried in the sand-or, in some other hole-you go right ahead. Tennis professionals mentioned in the following article they had NEVER heard of a player getting 2 MTOs back to back for different ailments. Bergeron's quote was similar to mine earlier, and the most damning words came from Vika herself. Whistle past the graveyard all you like, Slick.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/25/s...-open-raises-questions.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
    #57
  8. dafinch

    dafinch Banned

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    That kind of laissez-faire attitude is EXACTLY why scum Henin and Nadal were illegally coached, openly, and continually. Nadal bragged in his autobiography about being coached during the US Open Final, fer crissakes! Hey, it's no big deal, everybody does it, and, it's hard to stop(which, in the case of illegal coaching, is as untrue as it is irrelevant). So, no, I don't think some of us WILL turn a blind eye just because others don't care about integrity.
     
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  9. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    David Nainkin is a former player and current coach. I would hardly call him am expert on the rules.

    However, a few hours ago a recently retired ITF Silver Badge chair umpire who has been in the chair for grand slam finals, and has on multiple occasions seen back to bac medical timeouts quoted the rule out of the rulebook. Yet it still seems you don't think it was legal.

    Even that same "expert" in the same article said she didn't break the rules, but she bent them. But you didn't read that part did you?
     
    #59
  10. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    How is that even remotely similar? You're just not going to get it.
     
    #60
  11. dafinch

    dafinch Banned

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    Yeah, I read his comments, I also read the comments by McEnroe, Shriver, and, above all, by Bergeron, who said "...it is part of a disturbing trend extending to youth sports: emphasizing winning over sportsmanship and developing character..." even if a player, by the strictest letter of the rule, only "pushes the envelope." I notice you carefully avoiding addressing the illegal coaching issue, it's not hard to guess why.
     
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  12. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    Because its not relevant to this thread.
     
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  13. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    The humourous part of this little TW nest of anti-Azarenka whiners is that the tennis PTB will never agree with them--further illustrating how their rants are completely ignored.

    Perfect.
     
    #63
  14. dafinch

    dafinch Banned

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    Couldn't disagree more, for the reasons I mentioned in my laissez-faire post. Hey, one year at the US Open, Nadal brags about cheating there in his book, and, the very next year, is warned for illegal coaching only THREE GAMES into the Final-scum couldn't even wait to get into trouble before cheating-and, the not coincidentally, won no more games in that set. So, progress, however small, was made, despite the ocean of "let boys be boys" clowns running around.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
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  15. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    Exactly how much money did you bet on Li to win?
     
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  16. dafinch

    dafinch Banned

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    Not one red cent, Li Na is way too streaky for me, I saved my bet for the men's final. I just don't like cheaters. I wanted to like Vika, but the shrieking-which is borderline cheating, IMO and in the opinion of others, as well-made that difficult. This fiasco has made it virtually impossible.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
    #66
  17. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    Once again, if you're saying that Azarenka cheated, you're also saying that the doctor and trainer who evaluated her were in on it. Why would they risk their careers like that?
     
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  18. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    No sense trying to reason with the unreasonable.
     
    #68
  19. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    What's up Timbo? Did you enjoy the Australian dude? Thought you might have gotten a wild card in yourself. :)


    QUOTE=Timbo's hopeless slice;7175602]lol Woodrow, use a bigger font, man! You can't expect him to read that![/QUOTE]
     
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  20. dafinch

    dafinch Banned

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    Frankly, I don't think the risk is all that great: who is gonna rat them out? Vika? Why would officials risk their careers by covering up the fact that Agassi came up dirty in a drug test? Tennis officials are often spineless enablers, I hope you're not gonna deny THAT. I await your answer with great anticipation.
     
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  21. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    ^^^
    pretty much sums it up for me.

    Ms. Cheat & Shriek.
     
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  22. Masayoshi

    Masayoshi Semi-Pro

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    I have to agree. I think what Vika did was very unsportsmanlike and pushes me into the direction of rooting against her, but it was not technically against the rules. What made this more flagrant than normal is that there were three different stories for what the actual physical "ailment" was (i guess there were 2), her on-court interview (come on, she was asked specifically about her injury a couple times, and she kept mentioning nerves and hinting a bit at a panic attack), and how convenient the timing of it all was.

    Too bad, since Vika's tennis is a bit more interesting than a lot of the pure bashers at the top of the women's game.
     
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  23. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    You're right, Woodrow. I give up.
     
    #73
  24. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    The replay showed that Serena stepped on the line. What people complained about was that she shouldn't have been called on such a minor infraction at such a crucial time of the match. (Like NBA referees letting the players play and not calling minor fouls at the end of the basketball game) Besides, Clijsters was clearly the better player in the match up to that point and had reached match point before the point penalty.
     
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  25. dafinch

    dafinch Banned

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    I don't disagree with anything that you said, especially the part about the stupid tendency of people who say, "You don't make that call there(a favorite saying of Johnny Mac's). But, the fact of the matter, she wasn't defaulted for threatening the lines woman, since, as others have pointed out, she got a point penalty when her opponent had match point, hence the forfeit. It also irritates me when people say the threatened to kill the lines woman. Saying that you'd LIKE to shove a ball down somebody's throat is not the same as saying you're GOING to do it, no matter how much some people would like to pretend otherwise. In any event, she made a mistake, and paid dearly for it. People oughta move on, fer crissakes...
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
    #75
  26. dafinch

    dafinch Banned

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    An excellent policy when I answered YOUR none-too-clever question and you obviously don't have answers to the ones which I posed to you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
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  27. robbo1970

    robbo1970 Hall of Fame

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    Personally I think it was very unsporting. I recall too that she did the same in a tournament at the end of last year. Was struggling, said she felt ill so had a lengthy timeout, then miraculously started winning again.

    If she struggles mentally then leave the court and don't come back. The pro game is a lot about mental strength and many talented players dont win tournaments because they lack the mental strength, its all part of the game.

    Plus, I don't like this thing when she walk on to the court with her headphones on, almost ignoring a crowd that is cheering for her and has paid a lot of hard earned money to see her and its like she doesnt give a donkeys turd. I just think thats arrogance at it worst.
     
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  28. robbo1970

    robbo1970 Hall of Fame

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    And for those who think she is lovely looking....most employers give employees free eye tests. Have one!!

    There is an English phrase I will use here....minger!
     
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  29. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    ...and a childish post does not do you any favors.
     
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  30. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    To each their own, no? Or are you actually trying to impose YOUR taste as universal :confused:
     
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  31. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

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    Symmetrically faced people are universally more beautiful.
     
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  32. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    Congratulations. You won an argument on an Internet message board. Your parents must be so proud.
     
    #82
  33. robbo1970

    robbo1970 Hall of Fame

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    Not at all. My view is simply the opposite to those who seem to consider her the most beautiful female specimen on the planet. Their view/my view.

    I apologise to anyone I have offended with my opinion. But it is just my opinion and this forum has many different peoples differing opinions on many different subjects. Variety is the spice of life, if we all felt the same on every subject wouldnt this be a boring place.:)

    Personally I think Julia Georges is really good looking, so feel free to disagree and shoot me down :)
     
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  34. robbo1970

    robbo1970 Hall of Fame

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    I recall seeing a documentary once about these modelling agencies that have this 'face chart' that maps out the perfect size, shape, proportions and positioning of eyes, nose and mouth of a ladies face. Apparantly Kate Moss's face almost fits the 'perfection' chart exactly.

    But I don't really rate her.....saying that, I have met her so maybe that has affected my judgement. Its funny how someone pretty can soon lose their looks if they turn out to be a somewhat unsavoury character.

    But I digress from the original purpose of this thread.
     
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  35. robbo1970

    robbo1970 Hall of Fame

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    Sorry mum.:)

    Apologies, I was only trying the lighten the mood with a playful dig. Feel free to dig back at my preferences.

    She's not my cup of tea, just being honest.

    And the way she walks onto the court without acknowledging her fans bugs the hell out of me. People pay a lot to see her and a leaf should be taken from the book of the 4th official in a recent Man City game where he told the Man City players to go and thank their supporters who had just paid £60 to watch them play in the middle of a freezing winter.
     
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  36. raging

    raging Professional

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    Robbo, you may not find any humour in here at the moment...a bit like a freezing winter in the UK. :)
    I'm not Vika's fan either and think she blew it big time. She went into damage control with pressers the next day to explain. Definitely didn't win that many fans in Oz but she will get over that. IMHO she didn't cheat, once the system allowed her to go off to get treated it could take 5, 10mins or more. No biggie, change the rules.
    Woodrow has tried to explain the rules, some choose not to listen to him.
    Vika is the headphones generation, gets into her zone & hating the opponent...a bit like some posters on here:)

    In another thread another wag asks where all the bad boys are, maybe she can take over as the bad girl??

    Agreed on Gorgeous...from The Land of the Old and the Sloe.
    Definitely good stock...now if she could only hate her opponent a bit more she would be top 10.:)
     
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  37. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    She is a dirty filthy cheater who hates Americas freedom
     
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  38. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    You're driving down a 2 lane road and a sign says right lane closed 1 mile ahead. Does that mean you must move over now? If you move over don't expect everyone else to move over. If someone tries to pull in front of you run them off the road! tell the policeman i said it was OK. LOL If you don't like the rules do you think the ITF cares? If you think the ITF needs to change the rules what do you think is the best way for them to find out what you think?
     
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  39. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    What she did probably changed the outcome of the match but apparently it was within the rules. This truth is not offered in the poll choices.
     
    #89
  40. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

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    Cool you met her? Did you go gaga over her?
     
    #90
  41. dafinch

    dafinch Banned

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    Hey, YOU'RE the one who asked a couple of brainless, irrelevant questions, which I nevertheless answered, and then asked YOU some questions which you're obviously incapable of responding to. You wanna act now like you're unconcerned and had no interest in the entire matter now that you're left with egg on your face, Pal, you go right ahead...:p:smile::grin::rolleyes:
     
    #91
  42. jaydog23

    jaydog23 Rookie

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    This is sad.
     
    #92
  43. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    Assuming you are talking about the post above yours, you are correct!
     
    #93
  44. jaydog23

    jaydog23 Rookie

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    I think it's sad that people insist they're definitely correct when, truthfully, no one really knows if she was injured or not. The rules should just be changed, so that instead of seeing "gamesmanship" (regardless of whether or not this was an example, it does occur regarding MTO's), there is some sort of total allotment for medical and rest time.
     
    #94
  45. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Since--as you say--no one knows if she was injured or not, all anyone can do is accept the rules and judgement of the officials--which did not find Azarenka guilty of breaking the rules. This would not be an issue for certain members if their ultimate agenda (Stephens the would-be "Serena killer") saw her way into a majors final and/or won the title. In the end, Azarenka outplayed both Stephens and Li Na, who did not live up to the hype going into their last AO matches, respectively.
     
    #95
  46. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    Could you be just a little more self-important, please?
     
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  47. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    Except the replay didn't show Serena stepped on the line. They showed the replay and McEnroe and other commentators immediately agreed that either it was not a foot fault or it was "too close to call"
     
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  48. dafinch

    dafinch Banned

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    Could you be a little more evasive and non responsive after getting your clock cleaned?
     
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