Azarenka cheated using the injury time out

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by Amelie Mauresmo, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. TERRASTAR18

    TERRASTAR18 Hall of Fame

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    well she could have said she had a back injury and who would have known? to me it should be 1 mto and that's it.
     
  2. Speranza

    Speranza Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for clarifying rules Woodrow. I think that answers what you would have done in the situation also.

    Why do the ITF and ATP not have identical ruling? Could it be that if that were the case, then there might not be a need for bot organisations, only one?
     
  3. Rjtennis

    Rjtennis Hall of Fame

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    Who knows how bad injury was and it's not like Sloane was going to win anyway. Maybe they need to make some rule changes but it wouldn't have effected this outcome.
     
  4. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Um...how do you know that? It was on serve at 4-5 in the 2nd set when Azarenka took her 10 minute MTO. Anything could have happened. Sloane was a set and a break down against Serena and still came back to win. Azarenka was melting down in the heat and having a panic attack. That's why she couldn't breathe and blew all those match points. I'd bet if she didn't take that MTO to recover, she would have lost the 2nd set and the match. If you don't think Sloan had any chance of winning, how do you explain Almagro being up 2 sets to none and serving for the match 3 times but still losing?
     
  5. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    Well in this case, it's pretty much the same. The difference is the ATP and WTA try to push the players a little more on MTO's to wait for their serve, although you can't force them to wait if they say they really need it. Play can be stopped at any time, but it's the trainers call whether or not treatment is warranted at that time. I can't stress enough that chair umpires are not in the position of making medical decisions.

    But I answer your question, it's hard to tell if they will ever unify their rules. Just the ridiculousness of ITF's 20 seconds between points (although WTA is the same) should tell you something. :)
     
  6. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    ...but you cannot tell that to people who are determined to prop sloane up as the "next hope"/williams killer. She only made that semi due to SW's injury, and when facing Azarenka, the latter's overall skill only exposed more holes in Sloane's game. MTO or not, there is no hard evidence to suggest she was going to beat Azarenka.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  7. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    ^ Agree with that in general. Even though she was having a panic attack Azarenka still had 5 chances to win the set in the game before the timeout. Could have gotten a lucky mis-hit or a net-cord shot and won anyway. But, of course you can't ever prove Sloane wouldn't have won, either.

    If a player is saying they have a breathing problem on the court, the tournament must take is seriously.
    The doctor should be called out in that case - it isn't up to the umpire to determine a medical diagnosis (panic and stress, muscle spasm, rib, allergy, asthma attack, heart attack, etc.) in what could be a life-or-death situation.
    It would be very bad form to have a player die on the court because an umpire wouldn't let them have a timeout.
     
  8. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    A healthy Serena would of gave Sloan two bagels. Don't believe otherwise. If a choking vica beat her what? 6-2, 6-4? Serena without an ankle and back injury would hand bagels to Sloan in a grand slam match at this point of Sloans tennis developement.
     
  9. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    You're absolutely right.

    And all the more reason for Azarenka NOT to resort to such a dirtbag stunt. But whatever Sloane's chances were are neither here nor there. The fact remains: pulling that crap at that stage of a match and FOR THAT PHONY REASON ALONE is unforgiveable. That was maybe the sleeziest move I've seen from a woman. Victoria Azarenka is a walking toliet seat.

    Ms. Owen Wilson Nose.
     
  10. Rafaboy

    Rafaboy Rookie

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    Sporting events are supposed to simulate combat battle. If you really want a competetive sporting event, their should be no medical timeouts.

    Did the gladiators have mt's? When i played soccer back in the 70's, if a player got hurt, he had to leave the field under his own power. No timeout for play either.

    In boxing, you have a quick medical assesment, but no MT, unless of a low blow, understandably due to the opponents foul.

    Its good that MT's are here to protect the players health. But I say, if you cant continue, either persist or forfeit. isnt that what its all about?
     
  11. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    I agree. I think people are overblowing it. It's not like Sloane was about to serve for the match or something.

    And it did appear that Vika was limping earlier in the match, so she really did have some kind of injury.

    However, her comments after the match were weird. It makes me wonder if about her and just what was really going on.

    However, it wasn't like Sloane was about to win the match.
     
  12. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    Probably as he and his last famous pupil were also quite familiar with gamesmanship.
     
  13. Soianka

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    What was strange was that during the MTO Sloane covered herself in towels (in 98 degree weather) and applied some chapstick.
     
  14. JohnnyCracker

    JohnnyCracker Semi-Pro

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  15. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    It is NOT possible

    It is NOT possible to tighten the rules on this area. If a players said he/she has injury and it HURTS. They can't say you are faking it. Doctor can come out and examine the player but he can't tell if it is a fake or not with 100 % certainty.
    If doctor saids it is fake and if it turns out it wasn't and player gets seriously injured, then the player can sue both the Doctor and WTA or ATP both for 20 Million dollars.
     
  16. iri10

    iri10 Rookie

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    I'd be happy if they could just prevent the MTOs from happening before the opponent's serve. Take it before or during your own service game. If you have to take it before or during your opponent's service game, that game is awarded to the server.

    Of course, with all radical rules changes like that, you have to weigh the balances. It would lead to situations where a player suffers a legit injury while returning serve, and have to lose the game. And on the other hand, it would take out one of the more potent bits of gamesmanship possible with the time out. Which is more important? I lean toward reducing the gamesmanship. Losing a game for an injury sucks, but it sucks equally for all. It's something that would statistically favor nobody, over time.
     
  17. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    True--she was not going to win the semi--she was outplayed from every possible angle, but this was ingored in favor of fantasy, as a Stephens victory over Azarenka would have justifed their "Stephens is the Serena killing NEXT BIG THING," while ignoring her opportunistic "victory" over an injured player.

    Now that Azarenka--predictably--defeated Stephens and Na, their NEXT BIG THING bandwagoning seems more foolish than ever.

    Fitting.
     
  18. Love Game

    Love Game Talk Tennis Guru

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    That's Her Story, And She's Stickin To It

    Aza explains over and over again ... and the writers keep asking over and over again ...

    [​IMG]
    Day 11 - Victoria Azarenka Press Conference

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KOLpZDGAgo
     
  19. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    Azarenka's move as dirty, but come on as if Sloane stood a chance. She could barely hold her own serve. That match should have ended 6-1,6-2 Azarenka put her in the match to begin with. Sloane was not going to win that match, not at all.
     
  20. sportlerin

    sportlerin New User

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    The mto is their new magnificent obsession. This in a tournament that takes a 10 minute mid-set break for fireworks.
     
  21. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    MTOs happen all the time. Li Na received treatment in the middle of a game today. Then the fireworks lol (and they happened before Aza's service game). I think this is an excellent opportunity to try and make a clear point that no MTO or interruption of any kind is a valid excuse for a loss. I also think that today Aza showed she was mentally stronger than her opponent (even though neither were playing their best tennis).
     
  22. sundaypunch

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    I completely disagree with this logic. No, she wasn't serving for the match. More importantly, Azarenka was in the middle of a meltdown and all the momentum had swung to Stephens. This game was more important that if she served for the match since losing it meant the match was over.

    Not only does Azarenka lack integrity, she is a liar as well. Not everyone will agree, but that is my opinion as well as well as much of the media.
     
  23. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    I watched the match with no bias - but Azarenka really did not impress at all. The MTO was a dirty move against a very young inexperienced player.

    Sloane will have her chance against Azarenka again. I don't expect Azarenka to win the net match

    Sloane gained a fan - Azarenka lost one. Not that it matters at all but I think overall that move will cost Azarenka I'll bet. Don't ask me how though
     
  24. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Based on what? Stephens was already out her league before the MTO. On the other hand, Azarenka has successfully defended her AO title, and gains greater confidence as a result.
     
  25. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I can't believe a few people are still defending Azarenka for her gamesmanship. The 2 MTOs completely took away Sloane's rhythm. She was hounded by the press and 99% of the crowd at Laver Arena were rooting for Li. I guess the 1% including the ones on this board support(or fan of) cheater.
     
  26. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Hey cool off buddy. This is a free country and people have the right to express their opinion. "Took away Sloane's rhythm"? You got to be kidding. So how come the middle of the game break AND the fireworks didn't throw Aza off her rhythm? Because the better player will usually overcome those obstacles. Sloane has only herself to blame if she couldn't. And BTW, Sloane herself is NOT blaming Aza for her loss (unlike some of her most disgruntled fans).
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2013
  27. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    It's my opinion. That's all.

    From what i saw if Azarenka, I don't respect or like her. That could change in the future.

    Sloane acted maturely, didn't throw a fit or shriek like a banshee (although I don't mind when Maris Sharapova shrieks). I hope the next time she faces Azarenka, she beats her.

    Again, my opinion only. Feel free to disagree.
     
  28. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    Exactly...
     
  29. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Hall of Fame

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    This is a massive exaggeration. Even if it had gone to 5-5 Azarenka could still have won in straight sets. There is not way you can state definitively that Sloane wins if she had gotten to 5-5. There would have been a whole set to play (assuming in said situation she even wins the 2nd, which is no gaurantee) and she would still be facing a battle.

    As for her being a liar..that again is your opinion that you cannot prove one way or another. I think it was suspicious but that does not necessarily make her a liar, as you
    cannot prove she was not injured as you were not there during the timeout.

    I do not particularly care for the circumstances in which she took the timeout but that does not mean she was not in pain at the time.

    I wonder if other players had done what Azarenka did if the same people harping hate on her would still be hateful. It is one incident and its not like Sloane was up at any point anyway. Was it a suspicious circumstance...obviously..but you cannot exaggerate your own opinion into facts.
     
  30. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Ah, but the agenda to make Stephens legitimate fell apart at the hands of a superior player. They cannot handle Azarenka proving that Stephens was already on her way out before the MTO.


    ...and its funny that some of the same people accusing Azarenka of cheating defend Henin's infamous "hand" incident, which was deliberate. Their hypocrisy knows no end.
     
  31. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    is Vika really in love with PartyRock ?
     
  32. Soianka

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    I'm not a fan of Azarenka. I generally don't like her that much because of all of that noise she makes, which is really annoying and apparently is a bother to some players (Radwanska).

    However, I think the stuff about the MTO is a bit overblown. I remember Martina Hingis taking suspect MTO's and bathroom breaks to change momentum, etc.

    But this one with Azarenka and Stephens just didn't seem to do that. Yes, Azarenka lost what 5 or 6 match points, but it wasn't like Stephens was hitting winners down match point, Azarenka was missing shots long and into the net. The match was always firmly on her racquet. She was dictating with her winners and errors.

    Barring a miracle turnaround, Stephens was headed toward a loss before and after the MTO.

    I'm not outraged by the MTO because Azarenka appeared to actually be injured earlier in the match.
     
  33. Soianka

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    It appears so.

    They both are extremely goofy, so seem like a good match.
     
  34. Don Felder

    Don Felder Semi-Pro

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    The MTO tactic is an awful one, and always has been. It's an unbelievably effective tactic at all levels. Even the mentally strongest people can physically "cool off" or tighten up during a bogus (or legitimate MTO). I think some solid rule changes would put the kibosh on this tactic.

    1. Give players one penalty-free MTO if they need to take one during a set break.

    2. If a player takes another MTO at another set break, they forfeit the first game of the next set.

    3. If you need to take a MTO during the set, you automatically forfeit the game. Moreover, if you take the MTO during your own service game, you forfeit that game and the next game too so your opponent doesn't get a crack at breaking you after you tighten up/cool down.

    This problem is a lot like "flopping" in basketball--it's pretty hard to regulate and pretty hard to CONCLUSIVELY prove that a player is doing it in bad faith. But at the same time, it's destructive to the sport and in bad taste. I think penalizing games is a good way to go. There could be the odd scenario where the outcome could arguably be overly harsh (e.g., the fact that Li Na hit her head last night in a fluke). But for the most part, most serious "trauma/impact related" (for lack of a better description) injuries on the court instantly spell the end of the match for the player (e.g., Brian Baker's knee this year) and most iffy injuries/MTOs are (at best) the result of fitness-related stuff like cramping, if not downright bad sportsmanship.

    So I think I'd be willing to live with occasional unfairness to curb players from abusing this tactic.
     
  35. Don Felder

    Don Felder Semi-Pro

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    That guy is one of the ugliest people I've ever seen. Azarenka is no beauty queen, but she's not bad looking, at least not physically (the fact she seems to be an "ugly" person notwithstanding).
     
  36. Don Felder

    Don Felder Semi-Pro

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    And that makes it right how? This is an age-old, time-tested tactic. I remember kids using it against me in the 12 and unders. It's not right whether it's Hingis, Azarenka, Nadal, Federer, Laver, Djokovic, Murray, or whoever else doing it.
     

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