Babolat Star 5 overtension

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by rudester, Jul 10, 2011.

  1. rudester

    rudester Professional

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    I will be upgrading to Babolat star 5 in the near future, have been researching machine and see several posts referring to the star 5 overshooting tension, was wondering if anybody who recently purchased a Star 5 has had this issue?
    And is this a common occurence with new machine.
    Thanks.
     
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  2. rudester

    rudester Professional

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    Note to self...

    The fact that my questions are not adressed seems to be an endorsement in itself that there is no such issue with the Babolat Star 5. My decision to purchase this machine seems a good one.
    thanks.
     
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  3. SW Stringer

    SW Stringer Semi-Pro

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    AB Lee (sp?) is the expert on the overshoot issues with Babolat machines and has responded to that very same question on these boards. He hangs out at GSS dot com. Search the archives and you should find your answer.
     
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  4. Jerry Seinfeld

    Jerry Seinfeld Professional

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    Star 5's as well as many high-end electronic constant pull machines have overshoot issues. Because the speed of the tensioner on the Star 5 can not be adjusted, the issue is amplified when stringing polyester strings.
     
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  5. rudester

    rudester Professional

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    Thanks for the input all, I did do a search and come up with some additional information, however none really conclusive, it seems this phenomenom happens to some star v's and not to others.
     
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  6. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    rudester, there have been numerous reports of the star 5's as well as sensor's overshooting tension by as much as 8 lbs. as others have noted, albert lee has addressed this issue on the boards a few times. here are a few posts:

    Hope this helps.
     
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  7. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    so to counter the star 5 overshoot, if you want to string at 60 lbs, i guess you could set the star 5 for 53 lbs and pull tension. after the tension head has pulled taut, ie. pulled to 60lbs and then settled back to 53, you can increase the tension to 60. i imagine doing this would address the overshoot issue? it's a PITA if you're doing alot of racquets as you constantly need to remember to increase the tension by 7 lbs after pulling tension on every pull.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2011
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  8. rudester

    rudester Professional

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    Thanks Drak, I would ask your opinion on this, The Star 5 seems to get rave reviews. So how much of an issue is this really? is it something one could live with and compensate for, or are there other machines in same price range that would be preferable. Having researched the reviews most do not mention this aspect, would really be interested in your thoughts on the Star
    5, Is the over tension random or consistent within each machine? Is this a problem with all Star 5's?
    Forgive me if this has been addressed elsewhere.
    Thanks in advance Rudester
     
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  9. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    overshooting tension can be a real issue especially when dealing w/ stiff strings that already have a narrow elasticity range. overshooting by 7-8 lbs will pull the little life that a copoly string has out of it. it would not be an issue w/ good natural gut which generally needs to be prestretched anyway.

    i believe you can compensate for it by doing what i suggested. say you want to string at 60 lbs. set the tension head for 53 lbs. have the tension head pull to 53 which is really a peak of 60 when accounting for overshooting. the tension will settle back down to 53. now before clamping the string increase the tension setting up to 60. the CP tension head will continue to increase tension up to 60. now clamp off and release tension. the tension head setting will pull to 53 on your next pull so you'll have to repeat the above steps for every pull. but this will prevent pulling the string beyond the desired tension.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
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  10. rudester

    rudester Professional

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    Thanks Maddog1, this helps illustrate what you were saying, but it does seem like a PIA indeed. Does this take place on all Star 5 machines do you know? starting to sound like a major problem,
     
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  11. WileyCoyote

    WileyCoyote Rookie

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    Star 5

    Sounds to me like the Star 5 has a built in 12%-15% or so pretension/prestretch built in to its pulls.

    Maybe they planned it this way. Most of the better electronic tensioners I have read about have a pretension/prestretch option feature, but it is easily selectable and settable to different values.

    Since Babolat is most famous for its gut, which many think benefits from a pretension/prestretch, perhaps this is what they had in mind.

    My guess is that somewhere in the software that controls the pull there is a timing response or other parameter that might be changed, but since I do not think like French programmers, I am not the person to change it.

    Taking into account Airbus flight control logic, the above philosophy would fit right in anywhere in France.

    Harry
     
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  12. SW Stringer

    SW Stringer Semi-Pro

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    No, you don't counter for the overshoot of the tensioning unit, just like you don't adjust the applied tension to counter for excessive clamp drawback, 2 vs 6 pt mount, string ductility, temperature, barometric pressure, etc. Use your machine as it was designed and measure the output: SBS. String bed stiffness devices measure ALL the variables that affect SBS, including you, the stringer. These devices have been available for over 25 years so quit obsessing over the minutia of components in your machine over which you have no control. Get one and use it. Good luck.
     
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  13. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    i would imagine this affects all star 5s, but i'm not certain. if you don't care about overshooting like some folks don't seem to care, then it's not a big deal. i tried the technique i described above twice already on my sensor and it wasn't as much of a pain as i thought it might be. just had to remember to bump up the tension manually before clamping off. the first job was a full bed of gosen syn gut at 60lbs and 55 lbs (M x C) in a 95 sq in head. i liked how lively the string bed felt. i restrung it w/ a full bed of copoly at 52 x 47 so i'll find out how this string job feels the next time i hit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
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  14. rudester

    rudester Professional

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    Ok so if you use no compensating technique and just string the racquet, how does the string job turn out, seems like with a machine of this caliber one should not need to adjust for overshoot to produce a good string job.
     
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  15. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I think the point is that you don't compensate for the machine as it's doing its job as intended. You can compensate based on the finished product, however. For example, when I was stringing with my lockout machine, I would tension at 63. Tensioning at 63 on my Aria was nowhere near the same, and rather it only felt similar in the high 50s. I didn't initially lower the tension after switching simply because I went from a cheap lockout to an electric CP.
     
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  16. rudester

    rudester Professional

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    Thanks PV, this is kind of the answer i was looking for. Basically you just adjust tension as you would to match any previous machine by basically adjusting tension to match string bed tension you want in the end. correct?
     
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  17. Masamusou

    Masamusou Semi-Pro

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    Basically. The important thing is to be happy with the finished product. Remember that the input tension is really nothing more than a reference point. You simply change the starting reference point (set tension) to match the result that you want. This is pretty much going to be a trial and error process.
     
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  18. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    as you can see in this thread, some folks don't feel tension overshoot is an issue. i believe jaycee and the stringway guys feel tension overshoot has a deleterious effect on the feel of the stringbed specifically with stiffer copoly strings. anyways, one of the shortcomings the stringway supporters generally point out about electronic CP machines is that you can not prevent or control the overshooting if you're trying to string at a reference tension. i'm simply sharing a means to string at a reference tension on an electronic CP machine without overshooting if it's a concern of yours.

    depending on the type of string you're using, ie. gut or multi, you wouldn't need to adjust for overshoot to get a great string job because you'd generally want to pre-stretch these strings with high elasticity anyways.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
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  19. rudester

    rudester Professional

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    Thanks Masamusou,
    This was what i was thinking but was unclear as to how this would affect the life of poly's, or, when the Star 5 adjusts for string type does it also lower the relative overtension when dealing with poly string?
     
    #19
  20. rudester

    rudester Professional

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    And Mad Dog, this is the issue i was concerned with, and would love it if you would share your research with us.
     
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  21. jjs891

    jjs891 Semi-Pro

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    I agree with what you said here, and it'll work fine if you're just stringing for yourself. But what if you're string for customers? You really can't be wasting time and strings to experiment. Just a thought.
     
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  22. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    any time you stringing for a new customer, it's going to take a few times to really dial things in for him/her because you're using a different machine, your technique and stringing speed are different from the previous stringer.
     
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  23. rudester

    rudester Professional

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    I suppose one could use ERT300 to measure stringbed tension and compare with previous jobs done on older machine and adjust from there.
     
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  24. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    it could get you in the ballpark, but at the end of the day, it's impossible to know exactly how much tension was lost since the previous string job.

    then again, for some folks it doesn't matter what tension their racquet is strung at because they can't feel any difference.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
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  25. rudester

    rudester Professional

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    I guess my plan would be to string 2 identical racquets on both my current machine and the star 5, measure the stringbed tension, and go from there, should give me, as you say, a pretty good ballpark idea as to how to compensate to get closer results.
     
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