Backhand volley one or two hands?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by chatt_town, Oct 17, 2011.

  1. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Yeah, and can you beat CaraBlack and her two handed volley drill?
    YOU haven't seen a good 2hv'er. FrewMcMillian, GeneMayer, and a rising JimmyConnors could volley at 7.0 level, can you? With your 1hv?
     
    #51
  2. Spokewench

    Spokewench Semi-Pro

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    I use a two handed back hand volley most of the time. If I have to take my hand off I do, but it really is no big deal. If I am taking my hand off, it's usually a reaction volley and has a 50/50 chance of being a good volley. Just depends on how close I am to the volley and how much I can step into it to get it back. So, I think if you are reaching you are not in good position and most of the time, your volley will not be quite as good as if you actually are in position and stepping into the volley.

    Anyway, I see no detrimental value to a two handed bh volley. I actually have a better bh volley than fh volley and have great touch with the two hander from below the net. I guess it is all in what you get used to.
     
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  3. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Nice some reason is joining the mass of insanity.
    NO, not everyone needs to use a 1hv.
    You may choose whatever backhand volley you want.
    Yes, you can choose to use a 2hv.
    Use whatever works, and just because YOU did not see the tree fall in the forest, it doesn't mean the tree did not fall.
     
    #53
  4. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Nick recommended two hands recently (in Tennis mag I think). I use one hand only.
     
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  5. Tall Bama Guy

    Tall Bama Guy New User

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    concerning 2 handed volleys - 2 words - Frew McMillian.
     
    #55
  6. split-step

    split-step Professional

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    use what you are comfortable with.
     
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  7. Sanavan

    Sanavan Rookie

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    My wife has a 2 handed backhand volley and it is pretty good. Everything is ok as long you have confidence in what you are doing.
     
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  8. tennis_pr0

    tennis_pr0 Semi-Pro

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    The one handed backhand volley is more efficient, but there is no real flaw with using a two handed backhand volley. Your mobility will be limited a little bit, but other than that I think you can still work with it. You are not changing your grip because your bottom hand is still going to be continental, so just adding the second hand for the backhand volley in my opinion is no big deal. I wouldn't teach it that way, but if someone was set on using it I don't think there is a big downside to doing to.
     
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  9. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Since permanently switching to the 2HBH a couple years ago, I now hit 90% of BH volleys and BH overheads with two hands. I find I have more control and better placement versus one hand. My 2HBH overhead is one of my best shots as well (opponents can never tell if I'm going DTL, DTM or CC).

    However, my hand placement is the same as my 2HBH (right hand continental, left hand SW).
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2011
    #59
  10. embot

    embot New User

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    Ken Flach, a very accomplished doubles player in the '80s, volleys with two hands also.
     
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  11. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    I will hit 1H'er and try to do it properly if I have the time for it. However, if it is a reaction shot, anything goes. I will bat it back with the frame\throat\handle if I have to.
     
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  12. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    I think the last statement goes without saying...but it just doesn't make sense to me to intentionally try to volley with two hands from the backhand while using 1 on the forehand...especially a man(no offense ladies). I just don't see where you have the time to do that when four men are in the service box volleying. My partner proved that a couple of weeks ago when he drilled in the chest twice with overheads off of two two hand backhand vollies that he fluffed.

     
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  13. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    You are comparing two different skill levels. I'd be willing to take say fed or any other 1 hand bckhand volley against them. It's like I said earlier...when you compare same skill levels...yea I'll take the 1 hand every day of the week and twice on Sunday. No doubt.

     
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  14. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    My mixed partner is a male and he has a 2h BH volley. I am a woman and have a 1H BH volley. On a swinging BH volley I use two hands. On my BH I either use a 2h BH or one handed slice.

    Sorry to blow your theory.
     
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  15. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    You switched to a 1HBH volley? When did that happen? How do you like it?

    Have you hit any stone cold awesome 1HBH flick smash crazy sharp angled shots? I love that shot.
     
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  16. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    That's just your partner :) . My 2H volley are effective enough. Also, if someone drill a hard shot at me at the net, it is a lot better to block it back with 2 hands behind.
     
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  17. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

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    Mid-court, I would not hesitate to hit a two-handed "swinging volley" a la the Williams sisters. Not that I can do it like they do. If you're on top of the net, two hands is usually a big mistake.
     
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  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    When you prep for a volley, you have one hand on the handle, the other at the throat. 2 hands.
    So when opponent crushes a volley right at your hip pocket, you already have two hands on the racket for response.
    When your opponent crushes an overhead at you, two hands can block the ball back easier than one.
    And two hands, you are always hitting a FOREHAND volley, which is better for 90a% of the tennis players, than their backhand volleys.
    Now go out and play some tennis, and use EITHER or both methods.
     
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  19. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Lee, when people say 2HBH volley, they don't mean one hand on the throat. They mean two hands on the grip.

    If you have one hand on the throat when you make contact, you get a nasty shock that is unpleasant (for me, anyway). I always have my and on the throat for 1HBH volley, but I let go before contact (with free hand extending back for balance).
     
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  20. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    CindyS, I do know....
    I played A/Open and 2 Q's that I went 4 rounds in, back in the days when JimmyConnors used a 2hbh volley, FrewMcMillian (with BobHewitt) was the number ONE double's team using 2hbh volley, and GeneMayer was ranked top 50, using 2hbh volleys.
    I also, but that was on my own, not from watching them. Now I use a 1hbh volley, play maybe a full level and a half lower, and my forehand volley is actually better than my backhand volley (not then).
    Believe me, if you're not strong and a top level player, a switch to a real double conti backhand volley will improve the depth, consistency, and angles of your volleys easier than any other thing you can try.
    But like a 2hbh groundie, you gotta not only believe in it, but you also have to practice it.
     
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  21. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    That's exactly what he said before the match. :) He just got two Pen 3 tattoos removed from his chest and through no one elses fault but his own. You'd have let me see you pull that off with 3 other guys at your same level in the service box. :)

     
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  22. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    Exactly...I'm talking someone following through with two hands through the volley. I also start with two hands when approaching the service box area.


     
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  23. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    One of the best things about a 2hbh GROUNDSTROKE is that it forces both hands forwards, which forces your body to be stable and FOWARD.
    Now why, when you have a 2hbh backhand groundstroke, would you want to SWING ONE HAND BACKWARDS, while swinging the other forwards?
    Think about that one.
     
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  24. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    For balance.

    One thing my 2HBH volley friends struggle with is volleying from a deep position in the court for a low ball. They cannot take the volley out in front, get a high-to-low motion for slice, and keep moving toward the ball as easily as I can with my 1HBH.
     
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  25. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Problem here is that your friends just don't volley as well as you do, one or two hands. A bad volleyer can't volley with any hands.
    Try this. Think about this. FrewMcMillian was the NoONE ranked Men's pro in doubles, using two handed volleys BOTH SIDES.
    GeneMayer, while only a top 50 singles player, used his 2hbh sliced volleys to parlay himself into a top 5 in doubles, Men's tour.
    JimmyConnors, during his rise to No1, used a 2hbh sliced volley and approach shots, putaways, and backhand overheads.
    Someone mentioned a few others.
    Just because YOU can't do it, and your friends can't volley, doesn't mean a 2hbh volley doesn't work.
    On low and half volley approach shots, 2hbh is the best and most stable, best control, best consistent depth.
    Balance. Do you fall over hitting your 2hbh groundstroke?
    On a low or half volley, you want to be moving forwards even after you hit the ball. You don't want to spend your time in balance or recovering after hitting your approach volleys.
    Hitting 2 handed volleys would force the volleyer, obviously not you, to move forwards with weight going forwards.
    I"m not saying YOU should hit 2hbh or 2handed volleys. I'm just saying it works really well for SOME people.
    Like you can't hit a 120 mph serve. Doesn't mean you and your friends have discovered that hitting 120 mph serves DON'T work. That goes for every shot in tennis. Just because you and your friends can't do it well, doesn't mean it doesn't work for someone else.
     
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  26. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Do you hit your BH with one hand? If so, then it's logical that you wouldn't volley with two hands. Others have already given you many examples of past and present professional male and female pros who volley with 2 hands on the BH side.

    For those with a 2HBH (especially those whose dominant hand is in a continental grip), a 2HBH volley feels completely natural.

    - - -

    BTW, why do you care so much how others volley? Do whatever works for you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
    #76
  27. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    You haven't blown anything. Look around you when you are playing and take an look. How many men do you see volleying with two hands and how many women do you see volleying with one. That's not a theory...just look around when you are at the courts next time.


     
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  28. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    Hey listen here buddddddddd...It's a tennis board in case you haven't figured that out...we talk about tennis and this is one of many topics....if you don't like the thread...get the hell out. It's been a civil conversation(notice the stars) and I'd like to see it stay that way. If you don't agree...state the reason you don't agree or do agree and move on like everyone else. I'm talking about today's game and what you see most of the time. Of all the "men" I've seen playing tennis that were worth anything....I haven't seen one at the 4.0 and above level that made a habit of volleying with two hands. I'm sure everyone at some point including myself have hit a ball with two hands on the backhand side. I'm talking about if you come in 10 times how many men particularly do you really know that comes in and volley's with 2 hands on the backhand side say 8 of them(meaning they intend to volley with two). I've been playing for about 9 years now and have played all over the southeast and I haven't seen it too often....so you or anyone else that happens to know "1" or "2" or maybe even "5" people that do it...whoopieeeee. Those are low numbers compared to the numbers of people that are playing tennis. The one person that I know that does it as i said earlier got cracked in the chest twice in the same match and both times it was because he tried to go from one on the forehand to two on the backhand. He is a 3.5 trying to play 4.0 and he himself admitted the ball is coming faster.

     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
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  29. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    Okay......lets discuss this...First of all let me say this. I'm talking about today's game. I'm not saying that a 2hbv never worked. I don't see how it has a place in today's game. These players that you mention...they played back in yesteryear for the most part. Now honestly...do you see any of these guys you mentioned coming in trying to volley with those old wooden raquets with two hands playing against the likes of the Bryan Bros or Nester or Ziminich(sp) or Bhupiti(sp) or any of the top 10 doubles teams of today. It's like trying to say that all that slicing we saw in the yesteryear with all those guys has a place "today". You'll get eaten alive in today's game without a backhand. Sure you'll pull a couple of matches out of your *** here and there but for the most part you'll get ripped apart. So while your point is well taken about the guys from back in the day...I don't see you getting away that too much today.

    As far as my partner...no he could not volley as well because at 3.5 where he was from I guess they spent a lot of time hitting cross court forehands. Well at 4.0 in most places guys tend to come in and volley and I'll say it again....If everyone on this board honestly thought about it and came up with names of "men" that vollied with two hands on the backhand side...we'd probably have 20 names with the thousands of tennis players that we all know. So it's not say it can't ever be done...but you definately put yourself at a disadvantage doing it. Comparing a 120 mph serve to volleying with two hands is apples and oranges to. I don't think anyone on here or in the pros for that matter would ever argue against a 120 serve...but a two hand backhand volley...ugggh!!! yea you gonna get a lot of flak about it. :)

     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
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  30. Jracer77

    Jracer77 Rookie

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    3 or 4 weeks ago Florian Mayer beat Nadal while coming to the net often and using a two-handed backhand volley.....any questions?
     
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  31. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    I have one....just out of curiousity....what's this Mayer's guy head to head record against Nadal. :) Also let me note...that I I was speaking of doubles and the reaction time at the net...I wasn't talking about Nadal hitting forehands from 4 feet behind the baseline. :) We'll see how successfull he is in the future with Nadal. :)

     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
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  32. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    I'm confused as to what you are arguing about.

    If you are saying that in general 2HBHV is not as effective as 1H in today's pro game, then I would agree with you. Yes there are examples of current pro's playing 1HBHV, but they are rare.

    But the original article that started this whole discussion was not trying to give advice to pros, it was giving advice to recreational hackers like us. There are many things that are not 'textbook' and do not work for pros, but that could work well for some people at the recreational level. For example, you will not see that many lobs in pro doubles, but many many lobs at 3.5 doubles. Lobbing regularly at pro level is not a good strategy, but at 3.5 it can be a good strategy for some people.

    I think that for some people in recreational tennis, 2HBHV could be more effective that 1H. Maybe not for you, but that doesn't mean it won't work for some people. Like others have pointed out, there used to be more 2HBHV amongst pros in the old days - and let's be honest, at the recreational level, our games are more similar in style to how pros used to play versus the way pros play today.
     
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  33. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Agreed. The game is different at different levels.

    Still, I don't count 2HBHV as one of those technique or strategy difference that is dependent on level or gender. It is simply that most people learn to volley with 2H, no one tells them not to, and by the time it becomes a problem it is difficult to break the old habit.

    For that reason, I would say 2HBHV = frying pan grip on the serve. You can get by with it up to a point, but there's no good reason to learn it that way, and it will bite you in the behind at high 3.5 and up.
     
    #83
  34. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    ^^^^^

    I think the only good reason to learn 2HBHV would be if you don't have enough forearm/grip strength to maintain wrist stability when hitting a 1HBHV.

    This is strictly speaking not dependent on level or gender, but as a broad generalization, physically weaker players are more likely to be older, female, and playing at a lower level.
     
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  35. cak

    cak Professional

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    As someone who resembles your broad generalization demographic, I have to say I think you are wrong. I've got the smallest, weakest tiny wrists you've ever seen, and yet my one handed back hand volley is one of my stronger shots, mostly because in a backhand grip, my wrist doesn't move at all. (However, my forehand volley does run across the wiggly wrist problem.)

    My experience with us older females is we learned to play tennis before two handed back hands came into vogue. We sliced our backhands, and used that for volleys. Our two handed back hand we learned later in life, after our volley technique was solid.

    Those younger folks, that learned a two handed backhand before they learned to slice, would start volleying two handed also. If you check out the really little ones, with weak everything, they often have two handed forehands as well. They drop the two handed forehand when they get bigger.

    The only adults I've run across with two handed backhand volleys were those that only learned two handed backhand and have no backhand slice.
     
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  36. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Nope, I'm not buying it.

    If you can pick up a racket it with your dominant hand in Conti grip and squeeze it while keeping the head of the racket up, you have the wrist strength for 1HBH volley. Other proxy measures are whether you have the wrist strength to open a can of tennis balls, turn a door knob, or lift a three-pound weight.

    Grip the racket, lock the wrist, strings up always. That's it. The grip, strings and *movement of your body/legs* do the rest.

    That you need to be young and strong to volley with one hand is a myth.
     
    #86
  37. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    No, *I've* got the smallest, weakest tiny wrists you've ever seen, and I can prove it.

    I just measured my right wrist. It measures 5.5 inches perimeter. Top that!

    Further proof that wrist strength is completely unrelated to ability to hit a solid 1HBH volley is that I don't have elbow problems. If I were just using my wrist to volley, I think I would have crippling carpal tunnel by now.

    Cindy -- who can circle her thumb and middle finger around her wrist and have plenty of room to spare.
     
    #87
  38. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Perhaps I worded things badly. I didn't mean to imply that in general, older, weaker, female players will have trouble with a 1HBHV. What I did mean was that someone who is in fact experiencing trouble with a 1HBHV is also more likely to be an older, weaker female, rather than a young, strong male.

    Actually, I find it strange that you experience more of a wiggly wrist on the forehand side versus on the backhand. The forehand is generally more stable because your palm is behind the racquet, rather than in front of it. Probably that's just a quirk of your technique and/or physiology. Just goes to show again that everyone is different, which is why it's wrong to dismiss off-hand the potential benefit of a 2HBHV for *some* people, even though it is not the right choice for *most* people.

    I agree. However, not everyone is able to do that.
     
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  39. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I guess I would say a 2HBHV is a bad choice for everyone until and unless a serious attempt has been made to teach them the 1HBH volley. Only when a player is taught the reasons 1H is preferable and they are taught the correct grip etc and is doing everything right should they give up.

    I don't know anyone who has really tried to learn 1H who has failed. Most folks say they are too weak, and that is the end of it.
     
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  40. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    I agree 100 percent with everything you said here. If you are confused as to where I stand though, let me say this. I was talking about rec players. If you read back through this it was others who were talking about pro players. I agree when you say that what works for us would probably sometime get pros killed like lobbing. I think you made great points here. I guess I just disagreed with the article and wanted other's opinion...from what I can tell though most even here agree that the 2hbhv is probably not the best shot although there will be exceptions. Again...we can find exceptions but if we look around how many men do you really see volleying with 2 hands on the backhand side. I thought about it and I don't know "one" that uses it as a shot selection and that's having played alta for some 6 years and all the traveling that I've done. Have I ever seen someone use two hands on a given shot? sure I have...hell for that matter I've been caught a couple of times and had two hands to try and get it back. I'm not argueing...I'm just having a conversation and it has for the most part went pretty well. You know I've had a few insinuate that I "couldn't" do it but I think it's pretty obvious that it's the other way around. The ones that use two many times do it because they aren't "strong enough" as some indicated here to use one. Again...I agree with everything you said here...but I wasn't the one that brought pros into the conversation...it was a couple of others.


     
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  41. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    Bingo!!! I asked a teacher in Atlanta once about this long before the article came out, but I did ask him in relation to women. He said then that "many" not all but "many" women feel stronger by volleying with two hands on the backhand side and he as a coach never tries to teach any different because so many women do it. When i say he is well respected in atl he has won and played 1 and 2 at the AA1 and has won at the 5.0 national USTA level. So although the article sparked me to start this conversation I have always wondered why. While we were having the conversation he also pointed out that "most" of the time when a woman is on the ad side of the court in mixed they generally swing a mean two hander anyway...so he always run australian and he serves down the middle as it's "most" of the time their weaker shot....are there some exceptions? Sure....but for the most part he says the results are better if you serve a woman on the ad side down the middle(assuming she is right handed).


     
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  42. nomie

    nomie New User

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    When someone drives a tennis ball hard at my face, I instinctively volley with 2 hands. My teeth are more important than good volley form.
     
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  43. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I am not surprised to hear that these women "feel" stronger with 2HBH volley.

    I submit that they may feel stronger but they are not in fact stronger. The reason is that you do not not not not not volley with your arm. You volley with your legs. The power comes from the forward momentum with your body and legs.

    Now, if you decide not to use your legs and want to rely only on your arms, you can feel plenty strong with a big 'ol backswing. If you don't wish to bother being in good balance and positioning yourself correctly on the ball, yes, two hands will feel better.

    I say I can volley just as powerfully with 1H as with two. Better, I can get better slice and better angles with one hand. I am less likely to miss into the net by yanking down on the ball. I will do better with balls below the net, and I will volley better from deeper in the court.

    I think this coach you describe is doing women a disservice by assuming they will do better with 2HBHV.
     
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  44. cak

    cak Professional

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    You got me, 6 inches on the perimeter. But that is after I've broken it. Twice.

    Can't everyone circle their thumb and middle finger around their wrist easily?
     
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  45. cak

    cak Professional

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    I will admit even I will use two hands on the occasional hard shot mostly because I didn't have time to get my hand off the racquet. I also do that awesome beaver tail swing if an over head comes straight at me. I wouldn't teach either of those shots to anyone.

    There is the occasional two handed person who can do a two handed swinging volley. But that requires much more timing and coordination than I'd give your average rec player credit for.
     
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  46. dman72

    dman72 Hall of Fame

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    Well, I have to admit I recently tried switching to a 2 handed backhand volley because my backhand volley is so bad..and I've had more success with it.

    The guy who won my league last season hits with a 2 handed backhand volley and hits mostly slice backhands..with 2 hands. He happens to be a lefty, but still.

    It's not proper and if you're learning I wouldn't recommend it, but it's made the weakest part of my game slightly better. :???: I think with me it's simply my swing path to the ball. I've always tended to chop down at a 45 degree angle to the ball, and that produces shots in the nets or weak floaters. Using the second hand creates a more realistic swing path.

    Of course, a good round of lessons on a one handed backhand volley and drilling on it would probably be the best for my game, but right now I'm just playing matches.
     
    #96
  47. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
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    15,067
    My husband can't. Short fingers, fat wrists.
     
    #97
  48. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Sep 7, 2007
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    NorCal Bay Area
    Just tried it. Mixed results. I can circle my left wrist using my right hand's fingers, but can't circle my right wrist with my left hand. Turns out my right wrist is a full 1/2 inch larger in circumference. I'm right handed BTW. Perhaps all that one-handed backhand volleying has bulked up my right wrist :)
     
    #98
  49. TripleB

    TripleB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
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    I have a 2 handed backhand, use two hands on the volley to put away a volley, use one handed volley if I'm going for touch.

    TripleB
     
    #99
  50. shogun90

    shogun90 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Rhode Island, USA
    I usually use one hand for a backhand volley unless someone really cranks it at me and then I will hold on with the second hand so that if I mishit/frame it it's usually stable enough to get over the net.
     

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