Ballinbob's New Backhand!! (vid)

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Ballinbob, Jan 18, 2009.

  1. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Hey guys

    Got another vid of my backhand for you to critique. I think I'm hitting alot better than my last video, but I'll let you be the judge. And Behappy, I hope your happy now lol

    Old rally vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq0wX9S4JWk
    New Backhand vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHMuwaaoiOc
    Newer Vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GTnEZwWDXc&feature=channel_page (I tried keep my arm straight in this one, and sorry its kinda messy) I'll post another vid in like 2 weeks when I get everything down
    NewEST vid (watch this one)L:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GM0PI57BzI

    Post away!
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2009
    #1
  2. ThA_Azn_DeViL

    ThA_Azn_DeViL Semi-Pro

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    I like it, something keeps bothering me though, I dont think your using very much shoulder pivoting, which allows you to rotate more, but definitely an improvement.
     
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  3. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    thanks. Its been alot more consistent lately, but it still breaks down under pressure. Maybe I'm not using enough shoulder rotation, I dont know. Thats why I made this thread lol
     
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  4. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    Couple of things

    1) You are still bending your arm on the take back, keep your arm straight and relaxed like the picture in the FAQ

    2)You are still taking it back way to high, I said pocket height, not chest high.

    3)You are still pointing the racket head up as opposed to straight back behind you.




    Now I'm aware you want to have a pretty backhand, that's a lot of people's motivation for taking up the one hander, and at first, if you follow my instruction, you are going to have a backhand that looks like Blakes, as opposed to Justine Henin's, but just get those fundamentals down first, ok? Then you can start adding everything else.



    Incidentally, look at this guys backhand, Petr Korda, 10 years ago this was everybody's favorite backhand, technically it's identical to what I'm showing you.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Z-MaFtHfs&fmt=18

    BTW, it looks like it's a lot better than before, , I'd say you were hitting the ball better?
     
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  5. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    alright, will do. I'll work on it, and I might even be able to post yet another vid tomorrow. I don't really care about how pretty my backhand is to be honest. I don't see anything wrong with having Blake's backhand either lol. And yeah, I'm hitting my backhand alot cleaner than before and that's made a big difference

    Like I said though, I'll get to work on this ASAP. My backhand is the only thing holding my ground game back, and once I get it down I'll be a much more dangerous opponent
     
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  6. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    #6
  7. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    It's better, but you HAVE to let the racquet head drop below the ball, if only a little. Too much safety is better then too little. :)
     
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  8. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    can you see now why I said to practice those three positions in front of the mirror?
     
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  9. m27

    m27 Banned

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    looks better than the old video
    there are still problems, but you probably know that
    1) takeback should be higher and further behind you. practice turning your head to the right as far as possible (without hurting yourself) and pulling your (right) shoulder in.
    2) more torso turn. your back should be almost square to your opponent during your backswing.
    3) you're rising far too early and its robbing you of all power. you need to understand the purpose of rising; like leaving your feet on a forehand, its not a cause, its an effect. this is why you feel off balance and unable to add power to the shot.
    4) you're late most of the time. this is why your backhand feels rushed.
    5) its hard to tell from the video, but it looks like you're wristing the shot. your wrist shouldnt move until after contact. this is why there is no power in your shot.
    6) you need straighten your arm faster. right now, your forearm is parallel to the ground when your upper arm is perpendicular to the ground. it should be about 45 degrees.
    7) you're not swinging low to high. yes, your racquet tends to go up a little after you hit the ball, but the ball doesnt care about that. your racquet head travels pretty much parallel to the ground until impact. this is why there is no topspin on your shots.
     
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  10. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Yeah thanks. So I guess that's why I have a REALLY flat backhand then?

    Yeah I see why now. I'm off school tomorrow, so I can post another vid then too. Thanks for your help with everything btw, I really appreciate it. Believe me your advice isn't going to waste, I'm practicing every day for at least 2-3 hours. You will see results with my backhand, just give me some time and I'll get it
     
    #10
  11. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, most all one-handers go through that stage though, so consider yourself one of the smarter ones for actually trying to make your technique better! :)
     
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  12. BeHappy

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    I know you mean well, but BallinBob you should ignore this guy.
     
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  13. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Wouldnt it be a good idea to shorten my takeback (pocket height) for now?
     
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  14. BeHappy

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    Good. I don't want to overload you with information, but let me just say thaat the point of the backswing is to lower you hand and racket to the position I told you to assume, which is with your hand by your pocket and your racket pointing behind you. If you swing straight to the finish from their you will get topspin don't worry.

    Just practice those positions in front of the mirror, then get out on the court! ;)
     
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  15. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    It is a very compact stroke. My back swing is the same whether I slice the ball or hit topspin and is definitely higher than yours. I'm not sure whether that is something you need to change though.

    On the follow through, I don't think you are getting your arm up high enough. Try and get your wrist at eye level on the follow through with your arm fully extended. This will allow you to get some more topspin on the ball and should provide a little more pop on it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2009
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  16. TheShaun

    TheShaun Hall of Fame

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    thanks for posting a vid. that takes some courage.

    nice improvement. but as others have said, it looks like you're slapping the ball rather than taking a tennis swing. if that makes any sense. my backhand was very similar to yours, and when someone told me i was slapping the ball it made complete sense and i was able to picture a full swing rather than a slap. mine is still a work in progress too, i still slap when i get rushed.

    keep working at it and keep posting.
     
    #16
  17. m27

    m27 Banned

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    do you want to compare backhands?

    and bob, do you think it would be a good idea to learn a forehand with a straight, waist-height backswing? do yourself a favor and learn a proper backhand. anyone who tells you otherwise just thinks you're too inept to learn the real thing.
     
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  18. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    thanks guys for the advice, and yeah i'll definitley keep posting vids. This is the closest to private lessons as it gets. I'll brb, dinner..
     
    #18
  19. BeHappy

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    I can't edit my post for some reason.

    Anyway, that pocket position is what Henin, Gasquet, Kuerten etc all have in common, so when you're starting off you should go straight to it, then when it has become instinctive you can (if you want) go to a slice takeback and move your racket through that position from there.
     
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  20. BeHappy

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    You actually didn't reach an of the positions BallinBob, including the finish, I'm going to post the FAQ sticky post here:

    Your takeback was chest high, with a (very!) bent arm.

    Your follow through was chest high.

    So you have a lot of work to do!
     
    #20
  21. mental midget

    mental midget Professional

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    bob, do you take lessons? if i were you, i'd see if i could scare up 60 bucks or whatever for one hour with a pro, face to face, in the real world.

    i promise you, i'm not being a jerk here, but just watching your stroke, it's obvious you're trying to assimilate a barrage of well-intentioned advice; what you need is somebody standing right next to you, who can start to give you some idea of what it FEELS like to hit it properly.

    coming here for advice is great, but tennis isn't air conditioner repair, it's not easy to learn via correspondence course.
     
    #21
  22. m27

    m27 Banned

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  23. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Yeah I know, but that just makes me want to work even harder until I get this down.

    I actually did take a lesson with a pro last week (around there). This was my first private lesson ever. He noticed I had alot of timing issues, so we went through my forehand,backhand, and serve and fixed the timing problems I had. He gave me a few pointers for my backhand that got me to where I am now, but really we worked on timing. I really liked him though, I'm hitting everything alot more cleanly now and its helped alot. I mean, I realize I have alot of work to do on my backhand, but I'm hitting it alot cleaner than before and it feels great.

    edit- There's also this 4.5 player (hes a legit 4.5, he has results at that level), and he's been really nice to me and we hit like once a week and he helps me out. He's not a teaching pro, but he still helps me alot
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2009
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  24. BeHappy

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    It's not a checkpoint, it's the checkpoint. It's where you begin to hit your backhand, everything before that is about getting the racket to that position. It is the point from which you swing forward and up, unlike your forehand analogy in which you mention an intermittent point in the forward swing.

    There is an equivelent in the forehand swing of this position, if you go straight to it, it doesn't look pretty, but it works exactly as well. See jim courier,:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCeXFXwUAz0&fmt=18



    Or Venus williams' two hander:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8tgrGMnr5g&fmt=18

    Or agassi's for that matter.


    Or Korda's one hander
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCeXFXwUAz0&fmt=18


    Or Rod Laver (5 foot 8 inches tall with a wooden racket ffs!) Hitting the living crap out of the ball

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q13_STOUBc&fmt=18
    2nd point
     
    #24
  25. BeHappy

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    That's a great attitude. Just go in front of a mirror, get all those positions down and head to the courts, that's really all there is to it. If you head to the courts before getting the positions down you are dooming yourself to failure though!
     
    #25
  26. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Behappy, printed the page off with the positions on it and going to practice now. It looks like such a simple stroke on paper, and then when you try it it's a whole different story..
     
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  27. BeHappy

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    That's great. It's just two positions you have to get down, just practice the two positions in front of the mirror, don't just look at the pictures, read the sentences above them too. it's very important. Once you have the two positions down, slowly swing straight from the first position to the second, then get out on the court and try it. Good luck!
     
    #27
  28. oneguy21

    oneguy21 Banned

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    Take back looks pretty good, but there's something about the execution that seems awkard. If it works for you I guess it's not that big of a problem.

    Are you hitting topspin? It kind of looks like your swing up but your scraping the bottom of the ball so you're imparting underspin.
     
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  29. Ballinbob

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    ugh, m27, I know your trying to help an all, but now Im confused. BB, where are you lol..? Behappy's advice sounds good to me, but m27's makes sense too but in a different way. I wish I knew more about this so I could judge who's right, but honestly I don't know. I think Behappy's approach isn't bad though, just get the basics down and get a consistent backhand going then add the flashy parts later.

    Okay yeah Im confused lol....

    edit- Behappy, please don't think I'm insulting you or anything. I just find it a little confusing that m27 has a completley different approach to learning the backhand. I don't really like m27, but he seems like he's trying to help. Maybe hes way off and hes wrong, but I dont know. I like the idea of getting the basics down though
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2009
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  30. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    I'm hitting flat. I literally have no spin on that thing, I doubt it even has like 1rpm of topspin. I'll have another vid up tomorrow, and hopefully I'll be hitting with more topspin
     
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  31. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Look at Federer's follow through in BeHappy's post, that is what you need to do.
     
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  32. m27

    m27 Banned

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    backswings are not flashy. they're integral to the motion. try hitting a forehand without a backswing and you'll realize how much you're missing.

    if you want step by step instructions, here they are.
    at the peak of the backswing (starting point of the swing)...
    turn your torso counter clockwise as far as you can without straining yourself.
    turn your head clockwise until your chin is on center top of your shoulder (not touching, but directly above). it is very important that both eyes can see the ball as you watch it approach (rather than your head being turned sideways so that only your right eye can see it).
    your (right) upper arm should be pointing directly at the back fence (or as far backwards as you can comfortably go), with your elbow level with your chest. your arm is bent at the elbow, about 45 degrees above straight.
    your left arm is behind you, with your upper arm roughly in line with your shoulders. your left hand is holding onto the throat of the racquet.
    knees bent
     
    #32
  33. The_Steak

    The_Steak Rookie

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    Bob, you back hand looks extremely cramped. Remember to straighten that arm out. Looks like a lot of wrist action, keep that arm nice and firm.

    Best thing I would recommend is that you do not listen to m27. Adding that extra loop looks "prettier" but if you are having timing issues like you say, keep it nice and easy and just a straight back backswing.
     
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  34. oneguy21

    oneguy21 Banned

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    yes, go to youtube and watch a slow mo video of Federer's backhand. Focus on his follow through and try to imitate. Sorry, but I'm too lazy to post the link.
     
    #34
  35. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    ahh, ok thanks for that. Yes I have timing issues, they've gotten alot better but I still have trouble with timing. I'm going with Behappy's advice then, and I'll practice those positions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2009
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  36. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    It looks like you are staying sideways the whole time and not opening up.

    I would suggest you watch www.fuzzyyellowballs.com backhand videos and then practice the technique in your house before going out on the court and hitting balls.
     
    #36
  37. m27

    m27 Banned

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    I think you are going to develop a twitchy, pushy backhand.
     
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  38. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    I guess I'm just going to have to take that risk then:D
     
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  39. mental midget

    mental midget Professional

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    lessons! stop the madness, seriously. you seem like you're really into it. do yourself a favor and do it right.
     
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  40. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Ok, I'm gonna clear this up once and for all...

    To m27, I have actually been hitting the backhand that you describe for a long time but I changed it at my tournament this weekend to a "Kuerten-esque" backhand and my backhand's consistency, pace, and spin went up 10-fold. My coach has tried for the longest time to get me to simplify my game, especially my backhand (he leaves the forehand to me to get what gives me the best results) and now I realize he's right. You DON'T teach beginners/intermediates a shoulder high takeback, no matter how good they are...

    To BeHappy, kudos for sticking to your guns, I'm not a fan of flip-floppers (*coughromneycough*).

    To BallinBob, you need to work on your backhand technique but:

    1. Don't try to implement everything at once.
    2. Make sure that it is comfortable to you.
    3. Rule #2 takes priority over rule #1

    Ahh, I feel better now... :)
     
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  41. BeHappy

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    Just to reiterate, those are just the fundamentals, if he wants to go to a slice high take back after mastering them that's fine, those are just the fundamentals.
     
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  42. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I know that, I was talking about the flat/topspin backhand.
     
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  43. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Hey sorry for doubting you, I just got a little confused that's all. I know what to do/how to go about improving my backhand now, and I love the simple approach you have.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2009
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  44. BeHappy

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    so am I .
     
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  45. The_Steak

    The_Steak Rookie

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    How often are you going to hit with a private teacher?
     
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  46. m27

    m27 Banned

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    I'm confused. Kuerten had one of the highest takebacks in the game, past or present. Either I'm misunderstanding you or you're contradicting yourself.
     
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  47. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Not much. I have to pay for my lessons, and as a 15 year old I don't really have the money to spend 50$ on lessons very much. Im not old enough to have a job yet (although im still trying), and I get 20$ a month allowance. That's why I'm trying to make the most out of this forum. I want to get better, but I cant do it by myself so I need your guys' help.

    edit- I think its funny how many posts I get when I put up threads. This thread has been up for 2 hours and Ive gotten like 60 posts lol.
     
    #47
  48. RoddickAce

    RoddickAce Hall of Fame

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    I'm no expert on technical stuff, but I also thought it was better to have a higher takeback too. After I started taking my racquet back higher, I got more spin and consistency. But I'm don't know...
     
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  49. m27

    m27 Banned

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    What the hell are you talking about? Kuerten had a higher takeback than anyone. How does that in any way contradict my advice?
     
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  50. Jonny S&V

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    His racquet head dropped more than what you suggest, smart one...
     
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