Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by r2473, Jan 9, 2013.
well it's meaningless when ty cobb is in the hall.
they took them down after they made lots of money off the players. if they gave back the money the big 3 gave them then i would respect this move.
but the relevant part is the two best players of all time didn't get in.
bonds was a 500/500 guy before they ever mentioned steroids.
but they didn't give a damn when mcgwire did it or mike schmidt.
McGuire and Schmidt did exactly what? They didn't break Hank's 'clean' 714.
Oh and what sort of cheating are you assuming Ty Cobb did? Just curious.
You know what? I think there are some unfortunate racial underpinnings in play here. Yessir, I think some "baseball people" and writers and even people here are blackballing Bonds from the HOF because of his color.
I think that was referring to his sportsmanship and character, not him being a cheater.
Tim Raines should be in the hall.
Dale Murphy probably as well. He gets overlooked but that guys was as good as tons of other outfielders in the hall.
The roids thing is hard for me. You dont know how many guys used them you just sort of assume who did and if you listen to some aco****s more than 80% of the game was at one point.
Bonds was the greatest hitter I have ever seen in my life. The plate discipline and his ability to take a strike becuase it wasnt a good pitch to hit. I know the roids help with bat speed letting you wait longer to read spin. But of all the juicers in the time he was hands down the greatest.
Next years ballot will be intersting. Biggio probably gets the vote to make it, I only hope they put Bagwell in at the same time. As well as Frank Thomas. Greg Maddox has to be a shoe in i think. Glavine is close as well. Mussine probably gets in on like his 5th ballot hes not a first timer.
Ah..."mentioned" is the operative word here. Without going down the whole Greg Anderson/BALCO trail...I think (m)any of Bonds' achievements post-1999 have to be called into question. Bonds was indeed a 40/40 and, collectively, a 400/400 guy prior to then...certainly by most folks' standard on this way to the HOF but the ridiculous numbers posted afterwards, unfortunately, cloud his prior body of work. The Gold Gloves (which are subjectively awarded) ceased and the all-star and MVP accolades heaped on afterwards mostly because of the HR counts.
Sorry, guys, I still just don't see it. With the Pirates, he was sandwiched in the outfield (and lineup) with Bonilla and Van Slyke and once shuffled out to SF...I truly lost track. Don't get me wrong; there were years (e.g. 1993) he was truly star material...and the "complete" CV (drugged or not), probably worthy of HOF election. But just like Pete, he needs to be benched from that ultimate honor. Cheating with the equipment a la Cobb or Brett or Perry...you throw the equipment out (maybe even said offender) for that game and move on. How do you throw out the player who injects/alters themselves (AND lies about it)? You keep 'em out of The Hall. Period.
Then you better stay out of every HOF because they all have equipment, jerseys or other memorbilia in them from players who accomplished feats but never were voted into the HOF.
Bagwells not gonna make it either because of PEDs.
Agree. There is nothing about Biggio that passes the eyeball test for an all time great. Good player with a long, consistent career but he really suffers in comparison to what the gestalt of what a HOF is
google this girl, who cares about the HOF when you have that...
In his best years, the guy might see 1 pitch that he could actually hit per plate appearance and he'd hammer it. I've never seen anything like it. The guy was unbelievable.
Everyone should watch some footage of Bonds to refresh their memory on just how good this guy really was.
We saw him cheat for years, we dont need to watch more footage of his cheating. Go watch more footage when he wasnt cheating and tell us he was anywhere near the player.
So you think he cheated?
r, I think volleygirl thinks Bonds cheated, in case you didn't know.
I am not sure. I think it just picked a side, and keeps saying the same things over and over again because it likes to hear itself talk.
He was league MVP in '90, '92, and '93. Skinny as a rail at that time.
Later he roided up and won the MVP 4 consecutive years against all the other roid guys.
So, a charitable person might suggest that he was amazing without steroids and just unbelievable with them.
You're just being ridiculous now.
Bonds even as a 'trim' player (minus any 'roid' speculating) was already HOF bound. For that matter I thought McGuire had an outside shot at the Hall. Had 49 HRs in his rookie year in Oakland (tough ballpark) and imho if he could've just stayed healthy would've broken the 500 HR club with room to spare. Sosa? No way. A good, not great ballplayer with the White Sox, period. Once in Cubby-land? All bets were off...the number spikes in that bandbox are too weird. His sprinting 'schtick' was pretty scripted too...loveable Sammy. Pleezzeee.
I mean, when Brady Anderson, a leadoff hitter suddenly jacks 51 homers, the 'wth?!' skepticism kicks in. Palmairo is another one. Was a very good 15-22 HR contact hitter (played with Will Clark at MS St. in college), but look at how his HRs suddenly went to another (slugger) level.
Post strike...get the fanny's back in the seats....direct umps to shrink the strike zone....get the non-purist/no-zilch baseball fan who views 10-8 games as "well played" .... in short, cheapen the home run. The 500 Club used to mean automatic. Now? Some posseurs in there.
Again, Bonds would've been HOF anyway.
But for the sake of argument, who's better? Sammy Sosa (608 HRs), whose HR total went up by 30(!) in one year or Frank Robinson (586).
Sammy Sosa couldn't carry Frank Robinson's jock.
Sammy Sosa or Mickey Mantle? LMAO!...maybe now some can understand at least some of the resentment directed at some of the HOF "all-in" sentiment? .... and the blowback from it?
mcgwire broke maris' record-they celebrated and called him paul bunyan.
schmidt used greenies and other drugs.
ty cobb was a racist.
the last two are hall of famers, it kind of spits in the face of mlb/s integrity clause( the reason they won't vote in bonds).
but the whole steroid issue is nothing but mentions and suggestions so i could easily say that maybe he never took out of the accidental time.
like i said illogical. it defeats the purpose of whatever point they were trying to make.
Comparing greenies to the PEDs Clemens, Bonds, McGuire and these other guys used in this era is a joke. Greenies helped get the guys back on the field so a guy capable of hitting 35 HRs could stay on the field and hit those 35 HRs. The PEDs Bonds took turned a guy averaging about 35 HRs a year to where he hit 73 in one season. You dont see a difference? Hell if Schmidt had been using the stuff Bonds and McGuire took, he probably would have hit over 1,000 HRs and theres no telling what Hank Aaron would have ended up with so your whining that these guys are the best ever wouldnt even be in your thoughts.
Is your name Lance?
Separate names with a comma.