Discussion in 'Racquets' started by marsh, Jul 17, 2009.
Has anyone hit with this stick yet?
I just returned the demo two days ago. It came strung with Klip scorcher, weighed 342 grams strung w/ no overgrip and a head dampner. Beautiful racquet. The paint is a nice glossy orange, and the full coverage bumper guard is a really nice touch as it saves the edges of the frame when digging out low balls.
About me: I'm a 4.0 player. My serve is my biggest weapon followed by my forehand. Forehand is semi-western. Backhand is two-handed and hit w/ a Courier-esque baseball style. I only come to the net to finish points or on an occasional suprise serve and volley.
As for how it played:
The swingweight published by TW seems right on target as the racquet has a good bit of mass behind shots. It doesn't, however, feel sluggish.
All shots had good power and acceptable spin. The stringbed didn't bite as well as what I'm used to coming from a pure drive, but it was by no means difficult to spin the ball.
Volleys were hit sparingly, see above, but when I was forced into the net I felt confident that I would ruin the volley, not the racquet. When I made good contact the ball was easy to place, and I never felt like the racquet was getting pushed around.
Defense was easy to play as the racquet's mass didn't allow it to be shoved around terribly. However, the upper hoop is very soft and tinny. Stretch returns hit very high in the stringbed were unreliable and prone to being short sitters.
On serve, the racquet performed well. I didn't notice a significant decrease in pace or spin from the pure drive, but, if you're a fan of stiff racquets, the delta core legend can produce a disconcerting wobbly feeling.
Miscelaineous thoughts: the grip felt small for its listed size, and I felt it to be a similar shape to dunlop.
Final thoughts: good racquet. I enjoyed playing with it; however, the lack of crispness turned me off. (I was also concurrently demoing the Yonex RDiS 100 mid, which is a fantastic racquet that I much preferred.)
Players who like softer midplus racquets should definitely check this one out.
I have hit with it. Very good feel -- firm but not stiff, but a bit too light in stock form. Well worth experimenting with. If I get some time off this summer and if it stops raining I will give it a real try.
This stick has interesting specs...similar to an older radical or a capped radical...has anyone else played with this thing yet? I am starting to like more evenly balanced racquets.
I did a search and there's not much info on it. Looks like its from an old volkl mold with new materials and it's closer to Boris' actual frame.
I hit with it and liked it very much. It has a buttery solid feel and the grip/butcap and CAP are very interesting.
I grabbed a demo of it. It looks much better in person, although the white cap is a little much. The buttcap looks like cheap plastic but it is very soft to the touch.
This frame might be kind of a sleeper, I've never seen anyone playing it.
This racket sounds rather interesting... anyone else got any experience with it and views on its pros and cons?.. plus also, is it at all similar to other frames (just so I can get a better picture)?
We should try again to meet for a "demo hit". You can try a couple of my frames like the DCL and AG4D200 and I can play your Head Pro Tour. Are you around over Christmas?
The BB Legend feels less like a traditional Volkl and more like a softer, much better feeling Head. With that being said, at 98in2, it plows through more like a 93in2. In addition, the string bed, although it is 18x20, due to the recessed cross string grommet holes, pockets the ball like a worn-in baseball glove. The spin potential is far greater than what you would expect with this string bed, as you can be very wristy and make the short angle groundies. The plow through, due to the balance and wrap-around gromment--providing for a lot of stability--and is why it feels smaller, while driving the ball. You will find that it is very hard to miss a volley, and half volleys are the best attribute of this stick--think BB and grass. The stick is very easy on the arm, much as the PB 10 Mid, but it feels different, there is a greater margin for error, but in many ways, they play similarly. NTRP 5.0-7.0
CC, Pro_Tour_630, others,
I can't find huge amount of info on the DCL... am wondering if it's possibly a tad stiffer than I'd like ideally?... not sure how much oomph there is on serve?... if it suits a 2hbh?... and is this frame only really for advanced level players (ie, it's pretty demanding)?
PT630 - quite how much did you like it?... enough to want to hit with it again?
CC - I'm around for a short while. Shall contact you privately. Would be great if we could fit it in, yes...
Only just seen your informative post ^ which answers some of my Q's...
Compared to the PB10 mid, would you say it generally hits a bit bigger/heavier and feels slightly more hefty/stable/puts a lot of 'body' behind the shot?
Firstly, the BB Legend is more forgiving than the PB 10 Mid. Too many players who don't consistently hit dead center on the frame are using the PB 10 Mid, when perhaps they should be using the Midplus or the Legend.
Now, to answer your question:
Off the rack, the Legend is heftier, but the smaller head size of the PB 10 Mid, makes-up for the difference with equal or more plow through. However, the spin needs to be applied with the smaller head, as the Legend as a 98in2 is, by definition, more spin friendly than a 93in2, and with the recessed cross string grommets in the sweet spot, there is added spin potential and control, due to the extra pocketing.
If you hit with spin as your standard rally shot, go with the Legend. If you hit flatter, go with the PB 10 Mid.
If you volley a lot, go with the Legend.
If you hit dead center, all of the time and never shank, plus, prefer the traditional Volkl feel, and you have the technique, go with the PB 10 Mid.
Lastly, if you want something in-between, go with the stick that I say you cannot miss a groundie with and has the traditional Volkl feel, than use the PB 10 Midplus, and string the crosses between 2-4 pounds loser, depending on the machine, to pocket the ball, like the Legend.
It is Boris' frame.
They decided to sell the racquet that Boris actually uses.
He went through over 100 prototypes--info straight from his mouth--to get to the production BB 11s, but after a while, he went back to his old Quantum 10 Tours. The DC Legend is that stick, beefed-up throughout with DC, and in strategic areas, with DNX.
demo's it and I thought it was very good, more traditional feeling with nice swingweight. Only complaint was did noy like the white headguard, looked kinda girly or cheap. I agree with those who said it feels a little like an older Head.
I like it enough to buy one and it is closer than many frames to the PT630, it has traditional feel, it is caped with 18X20 and it is soft.
one thing about the but cap is that it is special/traditional and not cheap, it is found on BB's personal frame non of that squeegee but cap that are found on the BBMid/MP. The but cap reminded me of Soderlings but cap.
What's the tech on the buttcap? Is it just a solid piece of soft material or is there an absorber handle or something under there?
I served a couple buckets with this thing last night, it is really nice: powerful and spinny.
I wish the cap grommet was black!
I agree about power and spin ,
as for butcap there is no tech, thats whats nice about it, no gimmick grips, Volkl/BB have been teching their grips with sensor grips et al which I did not like, this butcap is just plain like the special edition BB,
as for white CAP grommets yeah they look funky but I can not complain, it is a full CAP
Played a couple sets with the demo: powerfiber II string...
Not a huge adjustment coming from my radicals.
One thing really stood out to me--this is an excellent volleying frame.
I think the creamsicle look is growing on me lol
Guess you don't like playing with pretty girls.....
Lots of very positive reports on its volleying abilities, but what's it like from the b-line?... would ppl say this frame is perhaps not really for a mainly b-line player?
no this frame has radical-esque pop from the baseline, which is why I thought it would be hard to volley with. but it's great.
It also has better comfort, and the slice is much better particularly on return of serve blocks.
I realize this stock spec is perfect for me...not too heavy, not too light, not too headlight, enough pop to get me out of trouble, beefy without feeling club-ish.
I put it on a scale and it was 12.0 on the dot, same as my leaded radicals. the balance point is also the same. the headsize is slightly larger than a radical mp: the mains are a little longer and the frame is a tad wider at 4 and 8 oclock.
other than the white CAP, I can't really say a negative thing about this racquet and I'm gonna buy one retail (and I rarely buy new racquets)
It cups the ball really well, so you get more out of the 18x20 mains. Basically, if you drive the ball, it plays like an 18x20, but if you apply spin, it plays like a 16x19.
Basically, the Power Speed Grommets do for this racquet, what the lay-up does for the PB 10 Mid; it allows the stick to play like the string beds are combined.
IMO, if you want this stick with the traditional Volkl feel, go with the PB 10 MP, and string the crosses 2-4 pounds loser. If you like a "Head type" feel, but which is even softer and less dead, go with the BB Legend. Either way, its hard to miss off the ground with either stick, and the legend is a slightly more advanced stick.
TheLama... you seem to be the Volkl expert around here, so I have a question to you. I have started a new thread on a quest for yet another frame. If you have time to read it you will understand a little more about me:
Since Volkl is in my aim, the PB 10 Mid or the Legend are under my radar at this point.
So from a pure baseline perspective and especially for a one back handed flat stroke and a little spin forehand control oriented forehand would you suggest any of those 2 sticks?
What do you believe to be the best pure baseline stick currently in production if you are abble to answer this question? Well... as you have already understood if you read my thread it doesn´t have to be the best... just baseline oriented sort of stick
Just read your other thread. I'm assuming that since you hit a flat BH and a roll FH, that you either hit with moderate pace for consistency or that your level of play is 5.5 or higher. However, since you are asking for this info, I will assume that it is the former.
Plus, you stated:
"On a final note, the stick that gave me most pleasure ever, curiously is a Wilson one, the prostaff 6.0 85 but with age it became a little unforgiving when I was not on my best or really concentrated... still the best stick I have ever played with."
With that being said, Yonex is out. It plays so different, due to the square head, that only the individual can determine its validity to use.
As I mentioned, the PB 10 MP and the BB Legend are similar in what they do to the ball, meaning that the ball quality on your opponents side of the net will be similar. With all things being equal, the BB Legend plows through better, and cups the ball better, because of the grommet system that I mentioned above and its balance, which is head heavier than the PB 10 MP. However, its feel is not as refined as the PB 10 MP.
The PB 10 MP has the traditional Volkl feel. You can make-up for the lack of comparative ball cupping effecting by stringing the crosses loser than the mains. You may also need a more head light frame, so you would go with the PB 10 MP. In addition, unless you can handle Boris' preferred more evenly balanced frame, you may not be able to customize the frame with lead tape, because the swing weight would be too much for you to handle. So in that case, if you want to add some lead at strategic areas, you should go with the PB 10 MP.
Regarding the PB 10 Mid: Unless you really pressure the ball at contact--which it sounds like you may indeed do--this stick is only for the best of players. The margin for error is not equal to its larger version, nor that of the equally 16x19 PB 9--which you may wish to look into. The PB 9's plow through is very good, but the 16x19 string bed also allows one to apply a lot of spin, and it weighs-in at 310 grams, which gives you 15-20 grams of strategically placed weight until you reach the stock weight of the other three frames.
Lastly, Fisher is history, and many head Prestige players and some Radical players have switched to the Volkl 10 Line, or the BB 11 Line.
Now I'm hitting the sack; its 7:30 and I need to be up by 12:30 pm!
Thank you for your lesson. I really apreciate it. Unfortunetly here we do not use your evaluative system of players so I cannot tell you my level. I do not have a clue because I don´t know how a 5 player plays.
I use a flat backhand because I don´t like to topspin with my backhand. Hell, I don´t like much to topspin with my forehand either but I guess I need to a little in order to keep the ball in.
I feel atracted to the Volkl in theory exactilly because it seems a very demandind frame. I´m a strange folk
One of the reasons I changed to Yonex was indeed because of the unique headshape and the achward feel at first... now I apreciate it a lot since it has grown on me. I just like to try diferent and new sensations in Tennis
USTA 5.0 NTRP--google it to see where you are--rated player is basically a Club "A" player in Europe. That means that you would play inter-club matches against other clubs, but not be paid to do so. Basically, a 5.0-5.5 will be the better players at a country club who may have played some junior tennis competitively, and/or some low level collegiate varsity ball. You guys learn tennis the old fashion way in Europe, so technique tends to be far better than here in the States, not to mention adherence to tennis etiquette, BJ King thank you very much.
In your statement you are absolutely right. I had tennis classes since I was 5 years old to 16. Even if we were playing great but with poor technical swings and footwork we would be yelled at. So, what I see here from people that have took lessons for many years is that they can even be "weaker" players but the technique is flawless. Also the European Tennis etiquette is fun to watch. It is like and old school ritual. But I guess newer generations are diferent. The Nadal style is a big influence in younger kids and they behave in the court like the punks they are in school
I guess that is "evolution"... just call me an old fashioned guy
hmmmm, have not played with the pb 10 mid or mid plus but I can tell you that the legend does pocket the ball nicely....however, the one I hit with (which was dead on spec wise) seemed to more evenly balanced than I like. It was not at all easy to swing compared to my becker 11 mids. I thought it was a bit sluggish, but that is because it was less headlight. Big sweetspot and great spin. I could definately play well with it right off the bat, it would just take an adjustment to get used to the balance. I thought my becker mids had a lower SW for sure.
Much to do with the full bumperguard of course, you can always trim it to lower the SW...
Interesting as I played the BB11 mid a bit... thought it had lots going for it... and out of many BB/Volkl mid frames thought it was quite possibly the most suited to a baseline, big serve game - which appeals to me more than specifically great all court frames... hmm...
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear!... I'm liking the sound of this frame a little too much!... Quick! Get me out of this thread!...
Yes, softer, Head feel is totally my thing... as I said to Fed a second ago ^ this frame is becoming more and more interesting to me... but with at least 3 new top of my list frames to test (having already checked out loads recently), do I really want another 1 to look at???... hmmmmmmm...:roll:
Well, even here in Europe I could not tell my level since I never played any tournaments for the reason I explained in my other thread. I played and trained every day but not in a competive form.
But this I can tell you, when I was younger and in the top of my form I loved to play at the Club with those tournament cocky players (some were really good) and erase the smile from their face after a couple of hours. They would look at me with that puzzled look asking themselves why haven´t they seem me before. Ah, ah, ah
My golden moment was 10 years ago when for fun I was playing an arrogant top tournament player and made him sweat like hell. I lost but I was playing so good that since he was known over there we even had an audience. I guess that was the problem since I got nervous by the stared looks. Nevertheless, he was sponsored and in the end asked me why wasn´t I playing tournaments... I answered him that I didn´t believed in them and they would take out all the fun of the game (at least for me.
Still that was a precious moment for me for obvious reasons... my 15 minutes (more 2and a half hours) of fame, eh eh eh.
I guess that I have to thank my love for the game and technical atributes to my 10 years instructor that was an Argentinian, previously retired circuit Tour, and always inspired me with his own love for the game.
He always told me that he always played the best tennis of his life, and enjoyed it, outside the Tour just for fun. I believe that in his time he was in the top 300. I can´t remenber his last name but the first was Fernando.
Now that I mention my instructor, I remember in the last years he gave me a St. Vincent which during my youth, at a time of stupidity, I sold and forever regret it. It was in pristine conditions. The best stick I ever played with was a Prostaff 6.0 85 but a chicago version that I finally also sold because I wasn´t getting younger and wanted to move to a little more forgiving frames. I don´t know if it was in my head but the Chicago one never played like the one he gave me. Nevertheless I always regret my foolish action. Hopefully someone might still be giving it a good use today.
Sorry about the off-topic, I know this is a Becker thread
What racquet is similar to a Legend, but with a 16x19 pattern? Does anyone know if Volkl/BB plans on a 16x19 version or similar?
Get a PB 9 and lead it up. Its 16x19 and weighs 310 grams. Check-out the PB 9 threads.
Thanks Lama. I've been following yours, and others posts very closely in the PB9 threads. It's definitely a racquet I want to demo asap.
I notice that the Legend shares a very close resemblance with the Tour 10. Save for the cosmetics, recessed grommets and string pattern, I can't tell much of a difference. I considered demoing it but I haven't been fond of the 18x20 patterns and the Legend weighs a little more than the T10. I'm looking for something similar in weight, or even a little lighter than the T10.
TWO WORDS: Lead Tape
My four PB 10 Mids, are all weighted between 394-401 grams, with SW's between 370-375, and strung with 16 gauge Volkl Gripper@58#M/56#C.
Heavy enough 4 ya?
Would appreciate hearing a tiny bit more re feel and serve oomph... specifically just how soft, flexy, buttery feeling is the DCL? Plus also, serve power... is it on a par with, say, the PB10 mid or BB11 mid (pretty big serving rods imo)? Anything ppl want to add to the comments already made would be great.
"It ain't heavy. It's my Volkl."
Why don't you throw a lead doughnut on those while you're at it? Did you read my post backwards? I'm looking for something =/lighter than my Tour 10.
While serving, there is a lot of plow through/pop for 1st serves and a lot of bite for 2nd. It compares very favorably to the other two sticks in this regard. It is not as buttery as the other two, but it is very close.
The one thing that has not been mentioned is that it plays smaller than it is.
PB 10 Mid Plus, as it is lighter than the wrap-around grommet T-10. You could also go for the PB 10 Light. They will play close to the T 10 in ball quality, but since they are nano versions, They do more work at a lighter weight.
Reb 95 VS DCL
Anyone care to compare and contrast?... how do they match up?... who's played both?
Ross, I did not dislike the legend, however, it did feel more head heavy to me. I think the Becker mid is a better Serve volley frame (that is what I do) becaue it "feels" more manueverable. Having said that, my buddy's game improved immediately with the legend and his serve was much better. I did like the way it pocketed the ball and got a ton of spin with it. If it had been more headlight, I may have bought it from him.
Interesting... I'm not a serve and volleyer, so maybe the DCL would be a good fit?... though now I come to think of it, I thought the BB11 mid was very well suited to b-line play.
Though I didn't play with both either I guess the DCL is very similar to the Babolat PST that you demoed last year.
The key difference is the balance. Rebel pretty headlight. DCL not much headlight. The head on the Rebel comes around pretty quickly once the racket is moving. The DCL is the opposite -- you have to keep it moving. The quid pro quo is the dig you get on the ball.
Hey crosscourt is the dcl your main stick? What kind of setup are you using?
We have almost constant rain here so I am not really playing at all -- but if I was I would be playing the DCL. Mine weighs 345 grams strung, the balance is 4pts headlight, and the swingweight 336. The best string set up so far is an NRG2 mains/black code crosses hybrid.
cool cc, is that stock?
I'd start a club for this thing but you me and boris are the only members...
Ross: you know I hate the rebel lol but the DCL is much more like a heavy Radical or older Head, not super HL, caps, comfort, etc...super comfy grip. I like radical feel more than prestige feel. My forehand is very spinny. But...there is something about capped racquets when you hit the sweetspot dead on it just feels like all the power of the frame is exploding into the ball. BOO YAH!
I don't know why I couldn't get into the rebel but basically it felt really long in my hand, like I was always crowding the ball. Also: couldn't play defense with it. Too long and soft. But, I can see with 2hbh player how the long feel might be nice.
Every time you describe how the DCL plays like a heavy Rad/older Head, it makes me want to check it out!... and I so agree about indescribable sweetspot feel with capped Head frames (it's why I could never quite quit on the PT280/630, although it was always probably a tad too demanding for me.)
Re your comments though on the Reb's softness, well, you know I've recently gravitated to preferring flexier feel. Re feeling long in hand and like you were crowding the ball and getting jammed... guess what?... I completely agree... it's something I love for 2hbh and serve, but I did have issues with this when I 1st began using the Reb... as they say, it's all trade-offs right?... and, btw, conversely, I found the PB10 mid actually too compact and short...
Anyhow, I'm still debating whether or not to try and check this rod out.
Cheers for feedback,
Separate names with a comma.