BB Melbourne Club

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by TennisMaverick, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    Unfortunately, there is little for your level out there on the net, except for maybe tennisplayer.net, which costs $99/year, and hi-techtennis. com, which costs $50/yr or $15/mo--give this a shot, they're really good on modern stroke production. The kid who does fuzzy yellow balls doesn't play much better than you, so his site is a waste. You may find something useful at tennisone.com. A better way would be to get 4-5 other guys together and pay a real coach to run strategy related drills like what players do at performance centers like Hopman's. 4-6 guys splitting a coaches one hour fee has to be doable.

    If you want exposure, enter a few sectional events. Enter the weaker ones to get a few wins under your belt. When you play a competitive match, get your opponent's contact number and workout. That's how it"s done. Age group tourneys are easier and less intense physically, but there can be more BS on-court.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
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  2. sphinx780

    sphinx780 Professional

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    Hey TM-

    If I recall correctly, you weren't a huge fan of the BB11 MP and now that you've hit the Melbourne a few times I'd be interested in a basic comparison between the two when you have time.

    Basically, I was a Wilson through my college years, then tried the DNX 10MP and fell in love with the control and feel after getting back into the game. Once I found my stride, I wanted a little more pop without losing that feel and with the BB11's balance point (I definitely like a less headlight balance) combined with a little more power, it really fits my game. But, I'm going to have to upgrade eventually and the Melbourne has me curious much more so than the legend ever did. I finally ran through a few hits with the legend and love the solid feel on contact but it is a bit clunky in the swing where the BB11 feels smooth whipping through the contact zone.

    It could just be cabin fever that has me intrigued but I'd appreciate your insights.
     
    #52
  3. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Do the Melbourne or any of the new Organix line compare to the BB11SE in terms of stability, plow, and overall feel?

    The BB11SE was/is a marvelous frame, everything about from serves to half-volleys to backhand slices are incredible. Your descriptions of Melbourne and OX10 sound great, how do they compare to BB11SE?

    Thanks
     
    #53
  4. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    When you add as much lead tape as the BB11 SE had, you just cannot compare plow thru. Hominator posted my PB 10 Mids on the Organix thread, which weigh in at 395 grams. Its plow thru/stability is better than the BB11 SE, not only because of the weight, but its smaller head size. Weight, has a huge bearing on SW.

    With that being said, I have also mentioned many times, that nano carbon--yes, the same material that is used in our fighters--the BEST in the world--for all you GIMMICKTARDS who believe that nano carbon is a gimmick and no better than standard graphite--does a lot more with a lot less, and can replace a lot of lead tape, providing for the same resistance to the ball and potential for greater racquet head acceleration.

    The Melbourne really is great and very solid when hitting standard half-volleys, and the response at net is very firm and solid. The X10 is the same, but I would describe it not as "solid", but as "crisp and precise". They both allow for great spin potential and react very well with faster racquet head speeds. The Melbourne cups the ball better, but the X10 bites the ball better, with a string bed feel that I have never felt before. As far as ball response, the ball moves off the X10 as quick as it did with the BB11 SE, but with far more control--which is why I was never enamored with the BB11s--and does not feel as disconnected with the cushioning. You feel everything that the stick does, but with ZERO vibration. The Melbourne gives you a lot of feel, like the London, with a lot of plow thru. Anyone who has used a stick with fully capped grommets will recognize this feel. It is also the closest stick in both lines to a traditional graphite frame, whereas the X10, is the farthest from a traditional frame.
     
    #54
  5. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    The best way to answer your question is to first state that you are correct, the Legend is clunky, and I have mentioned that in other threads. I had them modified for a 6.0 player, bumping it up to 365 grams to better balance it. To let you understand how much of an improvement that the Legend is, the same player, after switching to the London from the Legend, is switching back to the upgraded Melbourne, and using ONLY 1 gram of lead on the bridge, with an Agassi rubber band dampener--the Melbourne does play better with the 3.3 gram BB vibration dampener. That is a substantial difference from a player who used a 375 gram DNX 10 MP, to a 365 gram Legend, down to a 350 gram London, and now, to a basically stock Melbourne. That speaks to the stiffness-strength to weight ratio of DC and structural design of the frame. Personally, as I stated in the X10 325 vs PB 10 Mid thread, I could play with the larger X10, and I would also state that I could play with the larger Melbourne.
     
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  6. grover

    grover Rookie

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    I too play with the BB 11 Mp after trying many players frames including the Legend, London, and PB 10 MP. I think its by far the best of the bunch and I string it at 58 pounds with full gut. I'm a former 5.0 college player who now plays to a 4.5 and I was wondering if you have always strung your BB 11 at a lower tension?
     
    #56
  7. sphinx780

    sphinx780 Professional

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    Hey Grover,

    To avoid hijacking the Melbourne thread, shoot me an email and I'll give you my thoughts on the BB11 tension. I tried many setups before finding my comfort level in the low tension range and in the same boat you are, x college player at the 4.5 level currently.

    sphinx780 hotmail.
     
    #57
  8. jonahnaturals

    jonahnaturals Rookie

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    Swingweight

    Hi TennisMaverick:

    I see that the swingweight and some of the early feedback indicate that the Melbourne is easier to get around than the Becker 11 MP. This was my one issue with the Becker 11; I loved it for its plow through, control, and spin capability, but just found that for those Sampras runners into the corners and into hour two or three of heavy hitting, I could be a smidge late with my swing when pressed.

    So could you please let us know: Is the Melbourne significantly easier to get around than the Becker 11?

    Thanks very much for sharing your experiences with these sticks - so helpful.

    Ben
     
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  9. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    The Melbourne is a little smoother thru the air than the BB 11 MP; it spins in your hand with more balance; and it cups the ball far better. It has more control, but less pop with much more spin potential.

    The Melbourne also plays well stock with just a vibration dampener--it has more plow through and doesn't buzz after contact. You can also try 1 gram of lead tape on the bridge@6:00 with an Agassi dampener, which I feel balances the frame better(1.5 grams vs 3.3 grams with the stock orange BB dampener).
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2011
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  10. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    Any idea when TW will have a demo of this racket available? I'd like to try this & the Organix 10 325 side-by-side.
     
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  11. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    TW has them in stock. you should contact them and ask why their demo page isn't connecting to their "cart" for that frame. Otherwise, Hola birds?
     
    #61
  12. jonahnaturals

    jonahnaturals Rookie

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    Swingweight

    Thanks TennisMaverick. So the significant difference in published swingweights of the Melbourne and the BB11 MP doesn't translate to a significant difference in handling on the court?

    I'm getting from your response that the Melbourne cuts through the air just a bit better than the BB11 MP, not a lot.

    Thanks again.

    Ben
     
    #62
  13. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    The Melbourne feels less torsionally clunky in your hand. Once your swing starts, they both cut through the air, but the Melbourne does so a little faster. The heft of the Melbourne is more evenly distributed.
     
    #63
  14. jonahnaturals

    jonahnaturals Rookie

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    Awesome, thanks. It's hard to put into words what we feel on the court. You have a gift with this.
     
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  15. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    The "bird's of hola" are ~ an hour north from me, but they don't carry the Beker line (at least its not listed on their website).

    There is this place in the "mid-west", but their demo program is slightly more expensive, and I wanted to throw in a couple more rackets just for fun.

    I'll give TW a call later today & see what's up.
     
    #65
  16. Pneumated1

    Pneumated1 Professional

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    I couldn't agree more, but you have to be able to transform your own experience, feel, and his terminology into a workable, mental image (those with "eyes to see"). In that case, it's ingenious, imo. Others, however, go into paroxysms because their scientific formulas regurgitate the information and the methodology halts. I guess were all different, but the former works for me.

    It's true; they don't carry the Beckers, and the last time I checked they didn't display the X-Series either.

    That would put you only a few hours north of me, according to my best guesstimation. I don't why I was pegging you as a west-coast native. Blame it on the anonymity of internet forums!
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2011
    #66
  17. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    I'll speak to the rep.
     
    #67
  18. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    So are you VA Beach area? Or NC? I'm just west of DC, in Northern VA.

    I only ask in case you (a) happen to be a 4.5, (b) play on a USTA team, and (c) made it to districts last year. Our team was literally 1 point from moving on to sectionals. Our #1 doubles lost 18-16 in the 3rd set breaker. Painful.
     
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  19. OldButGame

    OldButGame Hall of Fame

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    Man,..You can tell the BB11 was a much loved racquet,..seems like people wanna 'rediscover it' in the Melbourne,....cant say I blame 'em either,... :)
     
    #69
  20. Pneumated1

    Pneumated1 Professional

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    I'm more south/central, right between Lynchburg and Roanoke. So you're probably more like 3 hours north of me. I play 4.0 USTA.

    When I think back on my athletic history and all the 1 point, 1 run, 1 strike, 1 shot, 1 stroke, etc. failures, it could get depressing. But I've been on both sides. When my baseball career came to a crashing halt by my twenties, I picked up softball. I played on at least 3 class "B" NSA state championship teams and back-to-back class "C" ASA state championship teams, even finishing 5th in the ASA nationals in Atlanta in 95, losing by 1 run in our elimination game.:) I remember how stoked I was after the last of these state's, and my ride back from Bristol, our older, right-centerfielder, informed me that no one would even remember that the tournament was even played a week later, much less who won it. I eventually and deflatedly concluded that he was right. But, I'm as competitive as anyone, so I can feel your pain.
     
    #70
  21. grover

    grover Rookie

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    For anyone who is interested. I am a former college player who was once a 5.0 but because of age is a 4.5 now. I have used the BB 11 MP for the last two years and hit with both the Melbourne and O10 325 this week for the first time. In my opinion the only difference between the Melbourne and BB 11 is the Melbourne is stiffer and less head heavy. My game in all respects was close but I hit a better one hand backhand with the BB 11.

    To my surprise I really liked the O10 325. After twenty minutes of hitting I put it in play for my league match this morning. The demo strings were crap but I still loved the solid feel and spin the racket produced. Serves and volleys were where the racket really shined for me. The BB 11 volleys like no other but I can not produce the power or spin on serve like I can with the O10 325. I believe the string pattern and the head being lighter helped me produce more power and kick on my serves.
     
    #71
  22. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    You didn't find that the Melbourne cupped the ball much better, and that the dwell time was much longer?
     
    #72
  23. grover

    grover Rookie

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    Maybe the dwell time was a little longer than the BB 11 MP but I'm not sure it makes a difference in me playing better tennis. I'm personally looking for more punch on my serve and the Melbourne did not offer this feature over the BB 11.

    Does a more head light version of the BB 11 MP exist out there? A 98 sq. inch racket around twelve ounces with flex around 60.
     
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  24. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    That would be the London. The reason why the BB 11 MP was not upgraded is because even though it was an 18, the ball still flew and needed more bite, or more heft, like the SE edition. Hence, a beefed-up BB 11 Light, the London, and a new lay-up for the 18 main Melbourne. The London has a little more bite, is better if you mishit, and has more pop, but the Melbourne has more punch, and you need to be a better player to use it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
    #74
  25. Lefty78

    Lefty78 Professional

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    This is beacuse TW actually MEASURES the frame, rather than relying on a manufacturer's (often unreliable) claims. It's a simple, yet effective process.
     
    #75
  26. dParis

    dParis Hall of Fame

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    What is the difference between pop and punch? Pop is groundies and serves and punch is volleys...?
     
    #76
  27. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    Pop refers to the string bed; punch refers to the racquet's weight behind the ball.
     
    #77
  28. dParis

    dParis Hall of Fame

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    Not trying to be a S/A but I'd like a more specific description of pop and punch, and what they mean to the user.

    What you are saying is: the London has more string bed(?) and the Melbourne has more weight behind the ball, which is obvious when one looks at the swingweight and static weight. If you are talking about weight behind the ball from a perspective different from one looked at through SPECTARD glasses, then how does it differ from pop from the stringbed?
     
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  29. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    The London has more pop, meaning its string bed is more responsive. For example, when you volley with the London, the ball goes deep because of the responsive string bed; the string bed does the work. The remarkable thing about the London is that it does this and still has a dwell time far longer than most 16x19's. When you volley with the Melbourne, the ball sinks into the string bed, so the punch, meaning the heft/all-around stability of the head pushes the ball deep, and that sink/cupping, provides the control--that is why Boris uses it and Mac used to when it was a Q10Tour. I didn't use plow thru, because the Melbourne doesn't effortlessly plow thru the ball easily, but it does punch it deep if you accelerate the frame as you pressure the back of the ball, as the ball sinks into the frame.
     
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  30. zumzool

    zumzool Semi-Pro

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    TM - Reading back on some of the comments... is the Melbourne's ability to "cup" the ball the same as dwell time?
     
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  31. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    They're related, but for example, the London's dwell time is very long, but it doesn't cup the ball. The Melbourne's dwell time is increased, because cupping the ball keeps it on the string longer.
     
    #81
  32. Madcervin

    Madcervin New User

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    Volkl PB 10 MP vs. BB Melbourne

    TennisMaverick,

    My daughter has been using the Volkl PB 10 MP and absolutely loves it. However, as you know, production of this racquet has stopped. My daughter has hit with the Volkl X10 but she found the feel of the racquet to be very different relative to the racquets she had used in the past (for example, the BB 11). She definitely prefers a racquet with a 18 X 20 pattern and with some heft (mass) to it.

    Could you give me your opinion on the BB Melbourner vs. the PB 10 MP? I believe that changing to the Melbourne may not be that big of a change from the PB 10 MP.

    Thank you.
     
    #82
  33. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    Is she sponsored? If so, Volkl will let her use the PB 10 MP for this year's allotment--if she hasn't received them--I'm sure, as long as she still uses her Volkl bags and stencils. If she is not sponsored, and you buy them, they are crazy cheap right now and being sold below wholesale at TW. Either way, as a competitive player, she will need more than whatever her allotment is, so again, you should just buy a half dozen or more.

    Now if you want to make the switch:

    The string pattern is identical if you put them up against each other. The Melbourne is 1 mm. wider--in spite of what some scrubs may say--but because of the pocketing effect due to the recessed cross strings, the 1 mm extra does not add much of a power increase. Since the Melbourne's cupping action increases dwell time, it is not as crisp as the PB 10 MP, but there is more feel. I have found the accuracy to be about the same, but the spin potential is greater with the Melbourne, and at stock weight, it is more stable and has more plow thru.

    At the net, you can knife a volley with the PB 10 MP, but you can place one with the Melbourne. The Melbourne half-volleys better, but the stick feels better in the hand with the PB 10 MP if you mishit, because the Melbourne's string bed is not homogenous, due to the nine recessed cross strings. The Melbourne will also aid 2nd serves, lobs, loops, and short angles to a greater degree. Lastly, the PB 10 MP is more torsionally stable, but the Melbourne is more longitudinally stable.

    If you buy a Melbourne, you could experiment and pullout the clear 3/9 grommet strips from the PB 10 MP, and insert them into the Melbourne, plus replace the one more left over grommet with a longer one--just cutoff from another frame--restring, and see how it matches-up to the PB 10 MP.

    One last thing....it sounds like your daughter hits fairly flat. Her issue with the X10 is questionable because when driving thru the back of the ball, you'd be hard pressed to feel like you were using a 16x19 string bed--if you didn't count them, you could be easily hitting with 18 mains while flattening-out a ball. You only feel the advantage of the 16 mains while applying topspin, but you don't feel the disadvantage of 16 mains and balls flying off the string bed. Perhaps she should re-demo, but string the X10 similar to what she would string the PB 10 MP with, and use the identical string.

    Send me an email if you want to discuss further.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
    #83
  34. Madcervin

    Madcervin New User

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    TM,

    Thank you very much for your quick response. My daughter is sponsored by Volkl and I believe would be sponsored by Boris Becker if we were to switch.

    However, after reading your response I will have her demo the X10 again using the same string set-up that she has with the Volkl PB 10 MP. I actually liked the X10 and found it surprising that she did not have the same experience as I did. So, I hope the demo goes well.

    My daughter for the longest time hit fairly flat balls until she added she added new strokes to her game. Today she is able flatten the ball with her grounstrokes when the ball that she is hitting calls for it but also is able to hit heavy top spin and side spin balls when needing to.

    Once again, many thanks.
     
    #84
  35. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    What section are you guys in? I maybe able to further assist you.
     
    #85
  36. Madcervin

    Madcervin New User

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    TM,

    We are in the Texas Section. Already looking into demoing the X10 again. Thanks.
     
    #86
  37. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    The East Coast rep used to have accounts in TX, but he informed me that they have since been transferred to your rep. Good luck with the X10. Note: they asked me to play test the X10 295, which I will post my review after Wednesday, if you are interested.
     
    #87
  38. Pneumated1

    Pneumated1 Professional

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    Any room here for a few London panhandlers just looking to borrow enough time to gather the strength and influence to charge the gates of our beloved Londonmoelandian kingdom once again? Please welcome us, people of Melbourneolandomar, lest we be absorbed unwittingly into the TT ruling minority and forever condemned to a fate of ignoring and censoring those of competence.
     
    #88
  39. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    Open a new London Thread:

    "Replacement for the ORIGINAL BB London Which Was the Best and Wiped-Off by Kleenex"
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2011
    #89
  40. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    They are related. You can't "cup" the ball unless it has "dwell time". If the ball shoots quickly off the stringbed without any "dwell time", how could you possibly "cup it"?

    I think a better way to explain it is: "dwell time" is the amount of time the ball sinks into the stringbed and is then released, while "cupping the ball" is something that happens during the "dwell time". It's the moment when the ball is sunken fully into the stringbed and the strings are "pocketing" or "cupping" the ball before springing back and releasing it.

    I suppose it's possible for a racquet to have long dwell time, but not the good cupping abilty? Strings and tension also play a large role.
     
    #90
  41. Pneumated1

    Pneumated1 Professional

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    ^^^^Nice stab volley but just wide. It looks strangely similar, however, to Maverick's response to the Zumzool's post almost a week ago. I'm pretty sure that "cupping" has more to do with the Melbourne's recessed cross strings in the sweetspot, but I wouldn't want to make definitive claims out of ignorance.
     
    #91
  42. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    Unless you have a question about the stick, players below a 5.0 at the very least, are too weak to play with the Melbourne, so they are incapable of commenting about it intelligently. Additionally, advertising posted videos hitting with the Melbourne is totally inappropriate, because you just can't add any value; the stick is really designed for accomplished players
     
    #92
  43. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    I'm holding this stick in my hand right now, with two over grips instead of a syn grip like Boris does, and I really didn't realize how much it feels like heftier player's frames like the KPS 88, but I guess that makes sense since it is actually Boris' frame. The amount of DC is not a lot, so it really is a traditional players frame, and we all remember how solid the BB Puma was. I'll have to find out if that was Volkl's intent.

    Just another reason why you'd better be able to wield a racquet to use it.
     
    #93
  44. Gimmick

    Gimmick Semi-Pro

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    Yes, let's keep going down that road until we reach the point where only one poster in particular is allowed to comment intelligently about any volkl product lest someone other than a shill is commenting.
     
    #94
  45. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    Dude....if you jump into the middle of the thread without reading from jump, nor without tying in the other BB/Volkl threads which are related, you can't extrapolate the meaning of the relevant posts. Don't come to a BB/Volkl thread where you never contribute just to start a fight; I can give a good as I get.
     
    #95
  46. Hotrocks

    Hotrocks Rookie

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    Original- BB London?

    Was the "Original" BB-London green in color? What year was the original introduced and the reason you prefered the original? I ran across a BB London in green & was wondering if I should buy it or the newer version? Thanks....
     
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  47. zumzool

    zumzool Semi-Pro

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    TM was referring to the original London thread that was deleted due to in-fighting.... The second London thread was created and is still viewable, but has since been locked... again due to in-fighting.

    The Becker London was introduced last year and has not been updated. If anything, it was a replacement for the Becker 11.
     
    #97
  48. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    There was no in-fighting. There were just Kleenex Krew frat boys crying over how great content was being delivered, who came to the thread just to pick fights, without having anything of substance to add to the thread. There was no fighting regarding the content or the POV of the content. The information in the original thread was extremely informative. That is why it was a far superior thread than the scrub thread which followed, and which was subsequently closed, because of the same issue. The stock market hit the roof today, and Kleenex was a winner.
     
    #98
  49. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    You need to post a photo of that stick if you can get your hands on it. I'v never seen it. TW's version is the first and only one released in the USA.
     
    #99
  50. Hotrocks

    Hotrocks Rookie

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    TennisMaverick- Send me a personal email & I will send you the photo. Email address: Hotrocksdd@msn.com Thanks............Dan
     

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