Becker 11 Mid Vs. Volkl C10 for Wrist Friendliness?

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by jon44, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. jon44

    jon44 New User

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    I'm in a demo frenzy trying to find the best racquet for a torn ligmanet in my wrist. I'm confused by what makes a racquet good for the joints: stability or cushiness. The issue is represented for me by these 2 racquest I'm trying to choose between:

    - C10: buttery feel, no stress felt in wrist on well-hit shots, but awkward shots create a wierd torque on my wrist (not good)

    - Becker 11 Not so buttery--little harsh at times, BUT, can smash through awkward shots with incredible stability.

    In the week you get for demo's, I can't quite tell which one is "better" for my wrist. Obviously they play differently, but if my main criteria is injury prevention, I'd appreciate perspective on Stability versus Flexibility as an issue.


    Thanks,

    Jon
     
    #1
  2. samster

    samster Legend

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    Jon,

    The C10 Pro probably is more forgiving the the Becker 11 mid just based on head size alone. The Volkl/Becker grip shape will take some time to adjust to and I have not found it to be the most comfortable grip shape.
     
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  3. the Town Sherif

    the Town Sherif Semi-Pro

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    neither. Try the donnay pro 1
     
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  4. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    You dont mention what strings and tension you are using. poly is notoriously hard on wrists. the c10 may be too much swingweight for you, and that's why you are getting that type of sensation. The 11Mid is a bit easier to swing. Do you know your ideal swingweight? Also, stick with cushioned grips..no leather. You may also wish to add the B11Standard to your options. If the swingweight is too high on these, the BeckerV1 is a very comfortable hit for its stiffness.

    You may wish to consider that just because the Volkl and Becker gripshapes <two diff shapes> arent what you like best and you find them uncomfortable, that not everyone feels as you do. Also because evidently it takes you some time to adjust, doesnt mean that it would take everyone some time to adjust
     
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  5. jon44

    jon44 New User

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    Good point, that didn't occur to me. How does one determine one's ideal swingweight?

    Is there a big enough different between the two racquets in swingweight to account for a (subjectively) huge difference in, for example, get a decent return off a shot to my backhand that got behind me?

    Thanks,

    Jon
     
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  6. samster

    samster Legend

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    The same for you, Ed. Because the Volkl and Becker grip shapes are what you like best and you find them comfortable, not everyone feels as you do.

    Also because it takes you little time to adjust, it doesn't mean that it would take everyone little time to adjust.
     
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  7. samster

    samster Legend

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    Again, other people's experience may vary. I see no need to invalidate another person's experience. Thank you.
     
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  8. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    i'm really not interested in continuing this w. you other than to say that i never implied that just because I like a certain grip shape or dislike a certain gripshape, that everyone else would. Nor did I say that it takes me little time to adjust.

    The guy is already in the demo process with these racquets. i think he knows if the grip shape is comfortable or not

    If balls are getting behind you w. the c10 and not other racquets, you are swinging too much bat for your particular game. Hitting late can play havoc w. your wrist. Yes, I believe the 11Mid swings easier enough to make a difference

    As to your ideal swingweight, you want to look for the most swingweight you can swing fast for as long as your sessions last when you are playing someone at least as good as you. You would also want to consider adverse hot conditions. If your racquet tires you out and you have trouble creating batspeed at the end of your sessions, tired wrists are more prone to injury. you also need to make sure you are using the right gripsize...too big or too small can damage wrists

    If you can isolate anything in your strokes which is hard on your wrist, you may wish to address that from a technique POV. good luck...ice down right away after your hits and i've found alleve better for the swelling than advil (for many). good luck
     
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  9. samster

    samster Legend

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    Nevermind, not worth the time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2008
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  10. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    i see...those who dont agree with you are declared instigators
     
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  11. samster

    samster Legend

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    True, if Jon likes the gripshape, that's all that matters, right? ;)
     
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  12. samster

    samster Legend

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    Good luck with your search, Jon. Just email me directly if you need any more help. I have used/owned C10 Pro, Becker 11 Mid, Becker 11 Std, Becker V1 MP, Tour 10 Gen 1, Tour 10 Gen 2, DNX 10 MP, DNX 9, pretty much most of the recent Volkl/Becker offerings.
     
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  13. samster

    samster Legend

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    Have a nice night, Ed! :)
     
    #13
  14. jayserinos99

    jayserinos99 Hall of Fame

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    The C10 has a fairly flexy upper hoop which may create that awkwardness. The BB11 mid IMO is a tad stiffer, so that's what you may find that 'not so buttery' feeling. My questions for you are:

    what racquet are you using now?
    what strings and at what tension is your racquet strung with?
    what grip size is your racquet?
    what kind of game do you play and what grips do you use?
    how often do you play (and for how long per hitting session) per week?
    where do you normally hit the ball on the stringbed?

    I wonder if it's a technique + overuse problem for you. At that point, as Ed mentioned, painkillers + ice after each session is a must. Probably the worst thing you can do is still keep playing tennis with that sore wrist. Also, it's not wise to keep demoing with that sore wrist as there's many factors involved that may make things worse (i.e. racquet, string, tension, grip, gripsize).
     
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  15. jon44

    jon44 New User

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    Thanks again for all the feedback.

    I currently am playing with a Head FXP Prestige, with Babalot natural gut at 3 lbs above mid. I play 3 or 4 times a week for 2 hours each--for lack of a better description, I have an "all-court" game and my strokes were "formed" in days of wooden racquets (Dunlop Maxply all the way....)

    In terms of Volkl/Becker grip shape, to tell the truth, I don't notice the difference in shape that much (though, now that it's been pointed out, I can see it.) Grip is 1/2 with overgrip (and I just deal without the overgrip for demos).

    In terms of swing weight, the numbers off of Tennis Warehouse say that the C10 Pro is lower than the B11 Mid (323 versus 330)--so are those wrong??(since that would say it should be less likely for a ball to get behind me with the C10 Pro, if I understand the issue correctly).


    All things considered, I'm wondering if the "safest" thing to do is get the C10 pro, which I overall enjoy playing with and seems to unanimously be seen as "arm friendly" and then revisit the issue next season (at which time my wrist will either have calmed down, or I'll have tried an ulnar shortening surgical procedure, which would hopefully increase wrist's resilience).

    Jon
     
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  16. Robbnc

    Robbnc Rookie

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    I started using the C10 a couple of months ago after 6-8 months of both
    wrist and elbow problems (and undergoing PRP treatment) and the racquet
    has been great . I played the first 6 weeks with gut but I just put poly
    (PHT) in the mains and so far no problems , still buttery smooth.

    As far as the grip shape goes it can be changed if you don't like it. I put
    3 layers of duct tape under the pallets, now its pretty much like a Wilson
    grip shape.

    Before you go under the knife you should at least check in to PRP, its a
    lot less invasive , and it works.
     
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  17. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, the practical swingweight of the 11Mid is less than the last c10 i swung. if you are hitting late w. the c10 but not that 11Mid <as you seem to indicate> you have discovered your own answer. hitting late is not going to be very good for your wrist even though the racquet is very comfortable. dont believe all the stuff you hear about heavy racquets being better for you arm..they arent if you are hitting late. it's better to have something slightly too light than slightly too heavy. I would say both the c10 and b11 are 4.5 and up racquets for different reasons. <i dont know your level of play>
     
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  18. jon44

    jon44 New User

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    To what extent is ability to handle a higher swingweight "trainable." I've read playtester comments who say they need to start their 1hbh a bit earlier to deal with the unaccostomed heft of a new racket (i.e., they're hitting late like me). I'd assume ideal swingweight is a function of both technique and strength.

    I've been told I play on the cusp of being a 4.5 player. I feel if I just find and stick with an appropriate racket, it'll give me the (pain-free) play time to get there...

    Jon
     
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  19. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    It is trainable to varying degrees, obviously depending on the innate athletisism of the person. technique trumps physical strength.
    Again, if you are hitting late, you are swinging too much racquet for your skillset which isnt good, and made even worse since you already have a bum wrist. that seems to be the issue you have w. the c10. the issue you seem to have w. the bb11Mid is that the sweetzone is too small for you. usually, when people are trying to deal w. the unaccostomed heft of a racquet, they do contrived things to try and make it work and whatever technique they have breaks down and they open themselves up to injury. Lots of posters here wrongly think the opposite...that too demanding a racquet forces you into uising good technique....the use of the word 'force' is a dead give away that what they post is just plain bad information
     
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  20. LafayetteHitter

    LafayetteHitter Hall of Fame

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    I don't play with the B11 Mid but tried one out for a few weeks. I'm not sure how anyone could describe it as harsh other than maybe using it with a stiff string set that would be harsh in any racquet. NOW, with that said if a user is framing shots and hitting off center some I could see where the frame might be considered harsh although no harsher than any other mid under the same circumstances. I found it to be quite buttery and swing easily. It does everything well, compared to the C10 which I lost at least 20 percent of my pace on serves with. Also if you don't take a FULL cut at the ball with the c10 you will find yourself on the defensive against big hitters often. Other might disagree but thats my opinion. To sum it up, the B11 MID vs C10 MP? B11 Mid with a natural gut hybrid all day anyday.

    If you are demoing other brands, you might want to look at the Prestige MP Pro Microgel if you feel you cannot handle the mid. It may provide more of what you are looking for at the 98" headsize range.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2008
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  21. TourTenor

    TourTenor Professional

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    I demoed the C-10 and BB11mid at the same time and, based on my game, agree with LafayetteHitter's comments 100%. 8)
     
    #21
  22. jon44

    jon44 New User

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    Interesting--harshness for me may have been the string job (I was the first one to use the demo--and the demo came from somewhere other than TW) and/or not finding the sweet-spot a lot (playing on roughed up clay).

    I'm going to demo both head to head and see what happens...
     
    #22
  23. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with this assessment as well. The c10 just takes more work to get a good outcome, and I never had the sense of great control with it w. the flexy head.. While the 11Mid is still a lower powered frame, the putaway power w. this frame is huge compared to something like the c10 provided you hit the sweetzone. the c10 has an enormous sweetzone. the c10 was a great frame in its day........what you get out of it, compared to what you put in, just doesnt get it done these days unless you are a player who has too much power (i dont know anyone like that who isnt a pro)... and the pros often go for powerful gear lots more powerful than the c10 w. the idea they are good enough to control the power
     
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  24. TourTenor

    TourTenor Professional

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    I demoed them both through TW and didn't like their strings at all. The BB11mid still played a lot better for me. I am used to that buttery soft feel that I get with my Gen 2's. Once I bought the BB11mid and set it up with my favored hybrid I knew I had made a good choice. The BB is not quite as buttery as my Gen 2s but still offers great feel and there has not been any problem with my arm or joints. I think BB11mid has the best combination of pop, touch and control I have found after trying many dozens of racquets. Good luck.
     
    #24
  25. danix

    danix Semi-Pro

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    I demoed both and of the two, the C10 was better for my game. The 11mid was just a bit too heavy, too slow in swinging, compared to the C10.

    To my surprise, the 11mid actually had more power and a bigger sweetspot.
    But the C10 had a better feel (more feel), more flex, and since I'm dealing with rotator cuff, I am looking for the best option for my arm.

    In the end, I ended up returning to my beloved Tour10MP, which TW got back in stock for about a day. Had them strung with gut, which I've always refused to use (on the basis that if I like it, I'll go broke). I actually want a crisper string in this frame, and may try a hybrid next time around.

    But back to the question - either is a "comfortable" frame for your arm, it's simply a matter of how good/strong you are, and what you prefer.
     
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  26. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    Tonight we hit on an absolutely horrible clay court...frame balls dont even cause your wrist any angst w. the 11Mid <as long as you are stringing w. something reasonable, at a reasonable tension, and have reasonable technique>..this coming from an older wrist w. lots of miles on it
     
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  27. TennisMD

    TennisMD Semi-Pro

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    For those concerned about power, I ended speculation by taking out a radar gun and after a very hard 2 hr hit in the heat tested the mph onserve, hit the old c 10 the fish net type weighs 12.5 oz and freshly strung with prince recoil at 54 lbs and this rkt hit as hard a serve as the PDR+, the APDC, the consistancy of serves in and hard the edge went to the PDR+, this could be a factor of the extra .5 inches, or that I have been hitting more woth this rkt. However the radar gun does not lie and the volkl held its own. Just throw rthat out there for those concerned abot power
     
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  28. matchmaker

    matchmaker Hall of Fame

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    Good to hear someone speaking about facts.

    I always find the word power level very subjective. Many people say: there is no power in this racquet. Then you test it and find it is actually very powerful. Or the other way round.

    I think much depends on how people hit (flat, spin) grip (continental,eastern, semi-western) and probably most important: where they make contact with the ball (south, center, north of the stringbed).

    That is probably why someone who hits north on a frame having the sweetspot south thinks it has no power...
     
    #28
  29. jon44

    jon44 New User

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    I agree -- it's great to have some objective info.

    As for my original question, I decided to go with the C-10. In sum, I actually enjoyed playing with the BB11Mid a little bit more, but found the increased stiffness (small, but noticeable to me) too much for my wrist. Also, I think my wrist's been suffering from just demo'ing too many racquets and never getting a chance to dial in any of them. (e.g., never had a chance to try the PK Redondo, for example, which sounds appealing.) So, I felt the need to decide on something...

    Thanks again,

    Jon
     
    #29
  30. samster

    samster Legend

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    Good luck, Jon!
     
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  31. TennisMD

    TennisMD Semi-Pro

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    Very good point, as I analyze my shots, I rarely hit at the tip of the rkt accounting for my results. Also if you look at the TWU site the power and speed of shot recordings for this rkt are impressive but are again located in the center of the string bed. Good luck to the OP on his choice of rkt, btw the reason I keep comming back is arm saftey, and I am trying to rehab(lol) from being such a racquetholic that I am resisting demoing the becker 11
     
    #31
  32. 0d1n

    0d1n Hall of Fame

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    You know you want to do it ...:twisted:
     
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  33. Ramjet

    Ramjet New User

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    I tried both the BB 11mid and the Volkl C10. I felt the C10 was a lot softer on my elbow (i had a problem with golfers elbow) and so went with that racket. I think the bb11 mid is a great racket though, but a little harsher on the elbow. I used to play with PK Core1 no.6, so in comparison to that racket i feel the c10 has more power, larger sweetspot. I like the soft flex also; feel i can hold the ball a little more and can hit better angled shots. I havent got used to hitting flat shots with this fram yet, though this is offset by the fact that i can generate a lot more spin on groundies. Volleys are very forgiving with this racket, can't miss the sweetspot. Also a lighter swingwweight than my PK stick (which had a SW of around 340), means the whole racket feel very manoeverable. I play with Technifibre NRG2 strings at 58lbs.
     
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  34. ratm355

    ratm355 New User

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    resurrecting this thread....kind of curious about the original question with the concept and specifically the two rackets.
     
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  35. jon44

    jon44 New User

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    Well, I played with the C10 through the summer, then had wrist surgery this past October and haven't played since.

    My sense was the C10 was definitly easy on other joints (elbow, shoulder) because of it's butteriness--it really blunted the impact shock that can sometimes irritate things. (As an offbeat comparison--I rollerski and it felt like switching from regular ski poles (which bang into hard pavement) to poles with shock-absorbing springs in them.)

    But as far as the wrist, I still wonder if the Becker 11 would have been a better choice. Things that bothered my wrist was having force applied at a extreme angles. I still wonder if I could have kept a more neutral wrist angle with the Becker.... (to be explored in coming season)
     
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  36. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    the C10 is a very arm easy hit. can't comment on the BB11 however the T10V 93 is another arm easy hit...maybe worth picking up a used one if u can find it.
     
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  37. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    which is why you don't see any pros using volkl or becker. They simply do not provide quality gear for the modern game, with all the modern technique being used.
     
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