Becker: Djokovic's 2011 is the greatest season in tennis history

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by 5555, Nov 19, 2011.

  1. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
    #1
  2. rofl_copter3

    rofl_copter3 Professional

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    It would have been but his body then failed miserably... He broke down which in my opinion tainted his season...
     
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  3. TennisLovaLova

    TennisLovaLova Hall of Fame

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    Greatest season in stats ok
    In tennis level: no
    I agree that retiring so often is lame
     
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  4. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Nope ... Not even a grand slam so cant be the best season in "tennis history". Rod Laver won the grand slam in 1969 which IMO should be the greatest tennis season in "open tennis history". Its sad that even our modern champions do not seem to remember history. I guess these guys greatest season definition has more to do with percentage of matches won than winning all the majors in the same season ?
     
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  5. Nadal_Power

    Nadal_Power Semi-Pro

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    He is not close even with percentage
     
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  6. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Numbers don't lie.

    It ain't Djokovic.
     
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  7. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    In the first 7 months it seemed like it would be, but even though he won Montreal and the US Open he hasn't seemed anywhere near as invincible in the second half.
     
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  8. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    Nah, Becker- it should say ' One of the greatest half seasons'. Then Fed took him out in FO, followed by Murray, then he beat Fed in USO but that left him crocked for the rest of the year and so fragile that Nishikori bageled him and he had to withdraw in fear of facing Tsonga in that state.

    As for McEnroe, he's very prone to exaggerating, so he can be ignored.
    However, if the Djoker can recover and maintain his form, it maybe possible for him to have the greatest ever season in 2012.
     
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  9. rofl_copter3

    rofl_copter3 Professional

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    He is invincible against nadal tho :-D
     
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  10. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    How do you know Becker don't remember Laver's 1969? Just b/c he didn't mention Laver doesn't mean he forgot all about the past, LOL. Perhaps he's thinking about the standard is a lot higher today, which he believe Nole's feat was tougher to reach.

    Notice Becker said Nole's season is arguably the greatest. The OP's title is misleading.
     
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  11. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    I would guess that if you polled a group of longtime tennis experts that Laver's 1969 season would get the most votes but Djokovic's 2011 season is fantastic and it's certainly one of the finest tennis seasons I have ever seen. It's definitely not a terrible choice.
     
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  12. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Mc Enroe is again on drugs?? what is the kind of stuff he takes now?
     
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  13. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Thinking about this recently, I think Connors' 1974 was the greatest, especially for how it changed tennis in general.
     
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  14. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    deleted....
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
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  15. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I don't know what his match record or winning percentage was, but, in 1967, Laver won 19 titles including the Pro Slam against a field that was the equivalent of playing only the seeded players in a major championship for the entire year.

    I think that may be the greatest season ever.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
    #15
  16. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Boris was 2 years old at the time. No reason to think he doesn't have vivid memories of The Rocket blazing to glory. :roll:
     
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  17. BTURNER

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    Viagra, Lasix and Senokot.
     
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  18. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    My opinion is that 1967 is Laver's best year also and arguably the best season ever.
     
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  19. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    The WTF

    Basically it comes down the WTF whether or not Djokovic's record is even in discussion this year. If he doesn't win that means that he will likely add 1 to 2 losses to his 6 loses this year. That will make 6 losses. Now if that is the case, his win/loss record is far behind Federer 2006. At the moment his Grand Slam record is behind Federer's 2006 (Federer got to all 4 GS finals, Djokovic didn't). He will have won about 15 less matches as well. And Federer's 4 Masters + WFT > 5 Masters for Djokovic. So hard to think of what criteria people would even discuss this season as being the best ever.
    (The only thing would be perhaps would be being consistent winner over the number 2 player)
     
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  20. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Great...it´s still good for his volleys ( the only player who volleys today, on any tour ,is old buddy Mac)
     
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  21. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Best season since Nadal in 2008.yet, quite impressive
     
    #21
  22. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    Best since Nadal in 2010 :)
     
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  23. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Better since Nadal didn't win the WTF and Djokovic has won a number of Masters tournaments.
     
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  24. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    So what's the contemporary record: three slams plus X Masters titles in one year?
     
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  25. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    No idea. To be honest if you just go for achievements there are a number of years superior to Djokovic's 2011 but I am rooting for him to have the best year possible. I enjoy watching superb play (who doesn't?) and he certainly has done that this year.

    It also depends on the era. In the 1970's and early 1980's two majors would be great plus tournaments like the Year End Masters which really was a major. McEnroe's 1984 season may very well be superior even though he won only two majors and went to the final of the French.
     
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  26. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Djokovic is at this moment 69-4 for 2011 (94.52%).

    In 1984 McEnroe was 82-3 (96.47%).

    Seems clear to me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2011
    #26
  27. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    Is it fact or opinion?
     
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  28. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Pathetic

    "David Ferrer upset World No. 1 Novak Djokovic, finishing off the 28-time titlist in 75 minutes with a 6-3, 6-1 score."

    It gets worse.
    "(November 25, 2011) Compatriot Janko Tipsarevic is the sixth man to defeat the World’s top player Novak Djokovic this year. This happens to be the first time that the ninth-ranked Serbian has taken a win over his Davis Cup teammate and it happened to be at the prestigious Barclays ATP World Tour Finals with a final score of 3-6, 6-3, 6-3 in two hours and seven minutes."


    Djokovic is falling apart. Federer (a great champion) will win it all.

    Greatest year in history for Djokovic? Really?
    Too sad.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
    #28
  29. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Who said it was the greatest year in history?

    BTW, what was Laver's win/loss record in 1969?
     
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  30. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Win/loss record...yes, Mac takes this one.

    But Nole won 3 slams to 2 for Mac. OTOH, Mac won the Year End Champion but Nole still has a shot(not that much). If he doesn't win, it's a tough call to who has a better year.
     
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  31. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    Now, Djokers year is still amazing. And the argument of Becker, Mac and Cash still stands, that he defeated strong opposition, two greats of the game 10-1, over all kinds of surfaces.(I learned recently on tw, that there is no separate indoor surface any more, only hard courts). That he is lame now, is disappointing. He should have scratched.
    Nadals season 2010 was great, because he won majors on 3 different surfaces, and the Paris-Wim-USO combo is imo the hardest to win.
     
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  32. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    I was rooting for him to have a super year and it is of course but I was also hoping he wouldn't fall apart like this. For consistently great level of play I have to think that a number of players are better than Djokovic this year.
     
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  33. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    But Becker said it was the greatest season in tennis history, don't you usually defend those past greats by saying they know more about tennis than any of us here on TW?

    Anyway Ferrer is in great form and Janko is a solid player, Novak did sort of fell apart after USO but it's still an amazing year all things considered.


    :shock:

    Hoodjem, are you feeling well?


    BTW. Fed didn't win the whole thing yet.
     
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  34. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    It is a shame, (though I don't like Djoko)...but that's what a greatest YEAR/SEASON is about....the whole thing. It would be as if Mac came into the Masters and got trounced by.......I dunno....Vitas and Flemming....
     
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  35. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Djokovic's 2011 now has to clearly rank behind the 3 greatest sesons in the Open Era- Laver's 1969, McEnroe's 1984, and Connors's 1974. Probably even behind Federer's 2006 now, so at best only the 5th best season in the Open Era.
     
    #35
  36. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Absolutely right. That's what greatness is all about. That's why it's amazing some greats were almost unbeatable for years. Health and the will to win all the time. Hard to have both every year. Many can win despite injury. I understand Laver won one of his Open Wimbledons despite a bad wrist injury. I could be wrong but I think so.
     
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  37. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    That's right, pc1. The Aussies used to say: If you are injured you don't play, if you play your are not injured. Many of the past champions played when exhausted or ill or injured, but at least tried to put on a good show. And they played well over 120 matches in those time, without rest time after majors. Maybe today's game has become too physical. I think, the schedule is to be changed a bit. They should play the year end event at late October or early November, and start the AO in late January, to give the top players 2 months time to recover from the season. I have the feeling, that some top players are focussing on the start of the new season in January and are in the middle of the training build up process.
     
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  38. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    Is it fact that Djokovic's 2011 is not greatest season in history?
     
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  39. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Unfortunately, I believe the answer is yes.

    Djokovic's 2011 season is certainly, definitely, manifestly not greatest season in tennis history.
     
    #39
  40. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    I guess my prediction about the Barclays ATP World Tour Finals was correct:

    "Roger Federer has become the first player to win six titles at the Barclays ATP World Tour Finals. The fourth-seeded Swiss won his 70th tour-level trophy in his 100th final on Sunday after he defeated sixth seed Jo-Wilfried Tsonga of France 6-3, 6-7(6), 6-3, in two hours and 19 minutes, to become the oldest titlist at the year-end championship."
     
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  41. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    A number of tennis seasons are superior to Djokovic's 2011 but it was still a great year for Novak. Hopefully the other top players recover from their injuries to start the new tennis season healthy.

    Here's a big question, I will eliminate Laver, Borg and Federer from discussions because it causes too many controversies but aside from them, what season is the best in the tennis open era?

    McEnroe, Hoad, Lendl, Wilander, Rosewall, Connors, Vilas, Rosewall, Sampras, Agassi are candidates. I think for average level of play I would go with McEnroe in 1984. Connors in 1974 with three majors is impressive too. Rosewall's best years came before the open era in 1962 and 1963. While Wilander won three majors he also lost a lot in 1988.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
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  42. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    So, it's your opinion.
    Is it opinion or fact?
     
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  43. vllaznia

    vllaznia Semi-Pro

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    Its a fact, as an example Mcenroe in 1984 had 82-3 win-loss ratio which is much better than 70-6 of Djokovic's, is this fact good enough for you?
     
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  44. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    Heh, more accurately, it's an opinion that many quantitative facts support. On the other hand, there is are no facts which support Djoko's season being the best. It's not even on the table at this point. In terms of match record, not just Mcenroe, but Connors, Federer, Lendl, Borg, have all gone past Djoko now.
     
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  45. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Well, I guess it's still in the realm of opinion, but the mathematical evidence is pushing us toward calling it a fact.

    Indeed, I wonder if any "best" can ever be an absolute fact.?
     
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  46. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Opinion of course and I should have wrote that but I would think by the ways many of us value tennis accomplishments that many would agree with me. In terms of majors Djokovic has three, in terms of winning percentage a number of players are better. In terms of winning matches many are better.

    Don't get me wrong I was rooting for Djokovic to go unbeaten and win the Grand Slam considering how he started out. But his play at the end of the year is disappointing. It's not his fault because he was injured.

    A high winning percentage is hard to sustain is you play a lot of matches. The wear and tear causes a lot of injuries. That's why I find it incredible that some of the players of the past like Laver, Rosewall, Gonzalez and Borg could do so well despite playing so much. Many played with injuries. Even recently a player like Vilas in 1977 played an incredible amount of matches but won two majors and a huge amount of tournaments. I believe Vilas played around 150 matches that year.

    Edit-According to an article on the ATP website Vilas was 145-14 in 1977.
    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Vi/G/Guillermo-Vilas.aspx

    Here's a sample of Vilas' play in 1977 against Jimmy Connors.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLKV-f7B1OU&feature=related
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2011
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  47. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    "Among his souvenirs [in 1977] were an Open Era winning streak record of 46 matches and the French and U.S. titles. His streak, begun after Wimbledon, was stopped at Aix-en-Provence in September by Ilie Nastase, who used one of the controversial "spaghetti" rackets that produced weird strokes and bounces. Vilas quit in disgust; such rackets were shortly banned."

    Because Nastase's "spaghetti" racquet (leave it to Nasty to utilize such trash) was shortly thereafter banned as illegal, I believe that the record books should be re-written to ignore this loss.

    If you leave out the Nastase match (at Aix en Provence, France; 26 September), then Vilas won 73 matches in a row before losing in a Round Robin walkover to Eddie Dibbs at the Masters in NYC in January 1978.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2011
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  48. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    By the way, I am curious as to exactly whom Djokovic lost to this year.

    1. Federer (French Open)
    2. Murray (Cincinnati)
    3. Del Potro (Davis Cup; 9-16)
    4. Nishikori (Basel)
    5. Ferrer (London)
    6. Tipsarevic (London)
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2011
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  49. Devilito

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    you cant run 90m of the 100m dash in record time, then give up at the end and convince people that if you had finished the race you'd hold the world record.

    Djokovic end of season indoor run was so pathetic that it marred his year. While still an amazing year i can't call it the greatest season ever while he gives up at the finish line because he's content with what he's accomplished already. A real champion pushes to the finish. I can be sympathetic if he's injured but too bad so sad.
     
    #49
  50. newmark401

    newmark401 Professional

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    Good points. I think the conclusion to be drawn is that most people have short memories and/or are biased or simply lack the facts.
     
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