Becker: Djokovic's 2011 is the greatest season in tennis history

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by 5555, Nov 19, 2011.

  1. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    Head to head Laver- Rosewall for open era is something of 22 or 23 to 8 or 9, when counting 3rd place play offs. The most meaningful contest probably was the 1973 Australian Indoor semi at Sydney, because it was sort of elimination contest for the Australian Davis Cup squad.
     
  2. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    Post all the open era matches between the two so we can see.

    P.S. You're a nut.
     
  3. Laurie

    Laurie Professional

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    I haven't read the comments here but Becker made these comments a while back? I don't think Novak finished the season well at all, the season came to an end for him in September more or less, he wasn't much of a force after that. I would have liked to have seen him do much better in London. I was at the Tipsarevic match at the 02 and after Novak won the first set relatively easily, he seemed to have no energy left and couldn't get himself going once he got into a losing position.

    A fantastic season but I'm a bit concerned. I don't see a Wilander happening but with Novak's style of play, I can easily envisage only winning 50% of the titles he's won this year at most, that would make him vulnerable to be overtaken as number 1 if Nadal or Federer do extremely well.
     
  4. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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  5. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    It´s been posted million times before, I´m too lazy, I rather let my memory talk.

    But what do you think for this starter:

    1968 FO Final- Rosewall wins in 4 sets

    1969 FO Final-Laver wins in 3 sets

    1971 WCT Final- Rosewall wins in 4 sets

    1972 WCT Final- Rosewall wins in 5 sets ( this last match is probably the finest ever played in history)

    So, as far as major titles, mr Muscless 3 Rocket 1 for the open era.They didn´t meet - again, during the open era- at Wimbledon,Forest Hills, Kooyong or the Masters.And didn´t meet at any other more matches than those I put ut for you, Mr Chopin.A romantic and lirics guy should know about the open era results between Ken Da Vinci and Rod Buonarroti.

    Love.

    Keep on tryin´:)
     
  6. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    I remember this match; I watched it on television in the US.

    Great match! Really close: fourth and fifth set tie-breakers.

    You never knew who would win it till the very end. (Laver had his chances, but Kenny pulled it out.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
  7. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    I don't understand a few sentences due to your grammar, but according to what I'm reading, Laver defeated Rosewall in the Pacific Southwest in LA, in a very big match giving Rosewall two bagels (!). You don't mention this. It also seems that Laver has a 23-9 record over Rosewall in the Open Era. I think, as others have said, Rosewall is placed below Laver largely because he never won Wimbledon, even if this is somewhat unfair to Rosewall.

    I do know that the season back then in no way compared to to today. Top players often didn't play in the same tournaments and Laver apparently won 45 titles after the age of 30. This is clearly a testament to how different the game was. Today, a player is lucky to win a few titles past the age of 30.
     
  8. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Oh¡ don´t worry, other posters catch it but I will explain to you.

    1/Pacific Southwest a major??? you must be kidding¡¡¡
    2/In the Open era, they played 4 major finals against each other, Rosewall won 3 of them.Go for the record books and if you find a different data, please, let me know
    3/I was talking about major events.I know that Laver won most of the time in minor events, during their open era matches
    4/The fact that Rosewall is below Laver, is not just because he didn´t win Wimbledon, it is mostly because LAVER WON 2 GRAN SLAMS, which puts him above anybody else who played the game ( including women)
    5/..and,yes, unfortunately, the game is much different now.In that, I agree with you

    I hope my grammar has been good enough for you to catch it.
     
  9. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Do you know where to get it ?
     
  10. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    1) I never said it was a major--just a big tournament. The distinction between "majors" and other tournaments seems not to exist in the same way it does today; back then, top players would often skip events.

    2) See point #1.

    3) OK.

    4) I personally think Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Mac, & Borg have all had more impressive seasons than Laver's "Grand Slam." When you win one as an amateur, and the other when three of the slams are on grass and one of the slams has a draw size less than many Masters Series tournaments, it doesn't automatically make you some type of "GOAT."

    5) I wish players could play longer, but the racquets, hard courts and style of play seems a bit too hard on the body. I think the season should be restructured.

    Yes, I understood, Kiki. Thanks for your response and await my Christmas Eve Laver thread.

    All the best,
    Chopin
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  11. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    You know I won´t agree but I wish you a Happy Christmas and a Happy new Fed
     
  12. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Rosewall won when it mattered.Laver´s wins were in minor events.I´d bet Laver would change all those 23 wins by a WCT title, which he wanted so much to win.

    And I am one of the toughest Rocket´s defenders over those boards.But the truth is the truth
     
  13. PrinceMoron

    PrinceMoron Hall of Fame

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    As Nadal says, it is history. New year, start at zero.
     
  14. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Wooooops. "World No. 4 Andy Murray, who had previously made quarter-final exits at Dubai in 2008 and 2009, beat Novak Djokovic 6-2, 7-5 in the semi-finals. World No. 1 Novak Djokovic, the three-time champion in 2009 (d. Ferrer), 2010 (d. Youzhny and 2011 (d. Federer), saw his 18-match Dubai winning streak end in the semi-finals. He is now 10-1 on the 2012 season."

    I guess Djoker's 2012 is not going quite as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  15. CMSlam

    CMSlam New User

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    These threads are pretty amusing.

    Anyone still associated with the sport, especially former pro's who still have an interest in promoting the sport, are going to say that the current generation is the best, that the sport is so much better and more competitive than in the past, and that recent accomplishments, such as Djokovic's 2011 season, are in some way and shape better than similar stellar seasons of the past generations.

    The reason is simple, it's puffery. These guys are trying to promote the sport, and you don't do that effectively by saying "Djokovic's 2011 was the third best season ever!." They have an interest in making the sport more exciting than ever. They want to bring attention to the sport and put butts in the seats. You only do that by promoting the accomplishments of current playing pros.

    And I'm not trying to devalue Djokovic's amazing season. I think what he accomplished was phenomenal. It's just that you have to take former pro's and tennis commentator's sound bytes with a grain of salt and not hold their puffery out as the gospel truth.
     
  16. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Wow!

    I am quite impressed!

    I am surprised but most pleased to see a new poster with a seasoned, intelligent, and even wise point of view. (Why else does McEnroe say that Federer is the greatest ever, no wait it's Nadal, no hold it--it's Djokovic that's the greatest ever.) Welcome CMSlam.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  17. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    I didn't remember this. Could this be the reason Becker got hired? As Mr. Bulgakov's signature says (paraphrasing from memory):
    The illusion that exalts us is dearer to us than a thousand truths.
     
  18. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Probably not the main reason but I'm sure it couldn't have done his prospects any harm! :wink:
     
  19. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    Exactly my thoughts. :)
     
  20. Anti-Fedal

    Anti-Fedal Professional

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    Laver's 1969 was superior
     
  21. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    ^^ And Mac's 1984.
     
  22. Anti-Fedal

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    Definitely. Johnny Mac was damn near unbeatable that year, he probably should have got the French aswell. In fact if he did, that would have been the greatest year ever.
     
  23. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Djokovic was let down by his season after the USO, up until then it was truly incredible if he won the YEC I might be inclined to think it was the best ever. I hesitate to put any of best Federer's years above Djokovic's although I feel they're close.
     
  24. Anti-Fedal

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    The most impressive thing about his 2011 season was his record against Nadal and Federer that year. 10-1 against two of the all time greats, who he had to go through to win his 3 slams.

    Federer won just as many slams in 2006, but went something like 2-4 against baby Nadal, therefore I think Nole's season was superior.
     
  25. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I think Nadal of 2006 on clay was better than Nadal in 2011, atleast against Djokovic. And 3 of those losses were on clay. Perhaps the first 9 months of Novak's season was superior but he's let down by the ending.

    I almost rate Federer's 2005 above his 2006 because he faced better competition. I suppose the impressive thing about Federer is him having 4 straight years of that caliber. Even if individually you rate Djokovic's 2011 higher.
     
  26. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    [​IMG] Becker: Djokovic's 2011 is the greatest season in tennis history

    After reading this I am sure the entire Vamos Brigade first googled Becker to find out who he was, and then declared that BB's only accomplishments were in the broom closet :D


    ..
     
  27. Nadalgaenger

    Nadalgaenger Professional

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    The more I consider the general level of competition issue, the more I tend to agree.

    Djokovic was up against arguably the two greatest players of all time and he went a combined 10-1 against them!

    He also didn't lose a match until the now infamous SF classic against Federer. Those who are eager to point out that Federer was "washed up" and that Federer smoked him forget that the match was VERY CLOSE (it basically came down to two tiebreaks that went 7-5 each for Fed). In other words, if a few points in those tiebreaks had gone differently, then Novak would have faced and very possibly beaten Nadal in the FO final!

    It was a level of tennis I am not sure we have ever seen. 2005 Federer was amazing but he didn't beat the same level of players.
     
  28. jean pierre

    jean pierre Semi-Pro

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    In the open era, the best is Vilas 1977.
     
  29. mike danny

    mike danny Legend

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    Federer in 2005 was playing at a higher level. He did not get baggeled after the USO and was 2 points awat from.the WTF as well.

    It took a higher level of play to beat Federer in 2005. That's why in 3 of those losses the opponents had to save MP and come back from 0-30 when.Fed was serving from the match
     
  30. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Quoted for truth
     
  31. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    Nonsense. He didn't win the YEC. So I consider Fed's 2006 to be the greatest of the Open Era.
     
  32. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Nobody , except 84 Mac has ever come close to Laver 69 season, which is year 2 of the Open Era

    He won 6 of the year´s 7 biggest championships and, of course, a GS

    He just left the Italian Open for somebody else ( but he´d win it in two years)
     
  33. Chanwan

    Chanwan Legend

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    But didn't he also lose 15 times or something like that? That's gotta count too. Plus - 3 majors were on grass as you well know
     
  34. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    on three VERY DIFFERENT grass courts, yes.
     
  35. Talker

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    First is results in slams for the year.
    Add in the WTF results.
    How many losses or winning percentage shows consistency.

    So with this as a general starting point is Djokovic's season the greatest ever?
     
  36. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    So the court surfaces today are all the same, but the 3 different grass courts in 1969 were very different? :confused:
     
  37. 6-3 6-0

    6-3 6-0 Hall of Fame

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    2006 was definitely greater than 2011 achievement wise and probably best season of the open era. 3 slams + Final if the fourth slam + WTF + 16/17 finals reached....Unbelievable stats.
     
  38. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    84 Mac wasn't even as close as 06 Federer. Are you serious? At least Federer won 3 /4 majors and was in the 4th final. That alone should be considered better. plus 4 masters and WTF.
     
  39. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Son, have you ever heard of the Masters and the WCT Finals?

    He trounced Lendl in the first and Connors in the second.
     
  40. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    You forgot to mention that Fed only lost to 2 players that entire year (Nadal x4 and Murray).

    Nevertheless, I still put Laver's 1969 season at the top, with Fed's 2006 a close second.

    Djokovic's 2011 is top 5 though - other contenders are Connors' 1974, Mac's 1984, Fed's 2005 and Nadal's 2010.
     
  41. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Federer's 2004 was greater than his 2005 and Nadal's 2010. It tops Nadal's 2010 in nearly every way, better win/loss, better record against top 10, the YEC.
     
  42. mike danny

    mike danny Legend

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    While i agree with you, in 2005 he looked nearly unbeatable. Probably his highest tennis after 2006. Also 2005 had better competition than 2006
     
  43. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    2004 had even better competition imo. In 2005 his play was patchy at times.
     
  44. mike danny

    mike danny Legend

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    With a patchy play he was very close from losing just 1 match.

    I would take Fed of 2005 any day of the week with his level of play
     
  45. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    I know that on the surface Fed's 2004 looks better, but the fact is, in 2005 he only lost 4 matches, and three were very close (Safin, Gasquet, Nalbandian).

    Nadal 2010 is up there because he won RG-W-USO back to back.
     
  46. 6-3 6-0

    6-3 6-0 Hall of Fame

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    I agree.
    2011 would have trumped 2006 had NDjokovic won the WTF, but after the USO he just failed miserably.

    RFederer's 2005 is the greatest 2 slam year IMO. It really doesn't compare to 3 slam season like 2010/2011 although 81-4 was insane.
     
  47. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Not sure why win loss record trumps an extra slam and the YEC?

    So win/loss trumps an extra slam and YEC, but winning those 3 back to back trumps win/loss? Federer's year was more dominant by far in 2004. Winning RG-Wim-USO in a weaker field surely doesn't trump the greater accomplishments.

    2006 Federer was better than 2005 IMO. He achieved more in 2004 with similar levels of play.
     
  48. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    bingo¡¡¡ that´s it
     
  49. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    1979 Bjorn Borg or maybe 1980 Bjorn Borg

    Three off the top four titles.4 defeats at most
     
  50. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I wonder what it's like on your planet where the difference between 3 different grass courts is more than that of hardcourt, clay and grass...
     

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