Berdych forehand..Push Pull? Old School? Modern?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by GuyClinch, Jul 26, 2010.

  1. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    What do people make of this guys forehand? He has an over the should finish (alot of the time) so is it a modern forehand or more like the Agassi forehand. There isn't much pronation right? But he can do well with it...

    It strikes me as an old school push stroke - but it probably isn't..I imagine it doesn't generate much topspin compared to most pros. But I ask because I hit my forehand kinda like this (albeit not nearly as well).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNiwUvcWHuc

    Nice right? The problem I have on my forehand so my coach tells me is I don't get to really straighten out the arm as much as he does on the backswing - as in there is too much elblow bend before I start the downward motion of it..

    Anyway I am thinking this guy is a good model for alot of casual players..
     
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  2. jmhs

    jmhs Rookie

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    I've been trying to copy some of TB's fhand since Wimbledon. More neutral stance (less stress on hips) and more conservative grip and over the shoulder-type finishes (less topspin/wiper, but a more penetrating shot). Like the feel of it.
     
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  3. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    I took some video of Berdych this year. The early part of his FH takeback reminds me of Federer except that he lifts the hand higher than Federer. The racket tip points toward the net until late in the backswing.

    The wrist layback straightens out a little at the end of the backswing, though not as radically as someone like Murray. He then lags the racket and drags it into the ball like most of the other pros. At contact he has a mild double-bend, and his follow-through isn't very radical.

    It seems to me to be a modern ATP fh without anything that radical or distinctive about it. I've never understood the Push/Pull taxonomy, but I will say that his fh can easily be compared to most of the other men on the tour. It doesn't look like a WTA fh.
     
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  4. Mr_Shiver

    Mr_Shiver Semi-Pro

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    Great timing, I am watching the Miami final with him and Roddick. I love DVRs. Doesn't look like a push stroke to me. Looks pretty modern. Agassi had a modern stroke too. They are both pretty compact. Beard-itch has a bigger back swing but overall the stroke doesn't seem to have as much extra movement as say Federer or Nadal. It doesn't look as fluid as their fhs though. The guy has huge legs. No wonder he can just murder the ball. He does a great job of getting low for a tall guy. You can really see him bend at the knees and not hunch over.
     
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  5. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    Pull. Modern. ATP. Monstrous.

    His hitting arm arm pronates through almost all of the entire stroke. As a result, his right arm straightens out during the takeback. This is pretty easy to do -- just pronate your non-hitting arm through your takeback (turn your pinkie upwards), and your hitting arm will pronate and straighten out in the takeback.

    Note that, at contact point, his hitting arm goes back to a double-bend form.
     
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  6. supineAnimation

    supineAnimation Professional

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    I don't buy the whole push/pull analysis for pros and high level players, at least as a binary classification. The legs provide push for everyone, and I think the action of the arm and racquet is much closer to a throwing action than it is to a pulling action for most of these players, certainly Federer and Nadal. And Berdych. Never understood where the idea of pull stroke comes from and the stretch-shortening cycle, which is performed by virtually every male pro is a throwing action, with no pulling whatsoever.
     
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  7. Mr_Shiver

    Mr_Shiver Semi-Pro

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    I think there is a lot language used out of context with this push pull stuff. One of the contributing sources could be the Bollitieri analogy of pulling the racquet out of a slot. There are no set definitions across the board and all this confusion will persist until they are put in place. Push and pull are too generic for the purpose of defining a complex stroke.
     
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  8. corners

    corners Legend

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    John Yandell made a lot out of his double-bend, proclivity for the neutral stance and over the shoulder finishes in this month's tennisplayer . net. My experience is that neutral stance pull strokes tend to end up with both more bend at the elbow and a higher finish than we in open stance. I think the hitting arm position and finish are products of the stance. Would you agree?

    How does he manage to have time to hit so many neutral stance shots?
     
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  9. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    I thought this was weird but went back and looked at the video and of course you are right. Why does pronating both arms like that help though? I guess I don't understand the anatomy of it..

    Anyway good tip - I am totally going to try that out tommorow.
     
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  10. corners

    corners Legend

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    I'm no expert, and certainly have no interest in engaging in any arguments. But my experience experimenting with different takebacks has me provisionally convinced that Tricky's push/pull differentiation is accurate.

    I don't know if the terms are as accurate - the men may in fact not pull, so much as throw, as you say - but clearly (to me) they are doing something different, from the legs up, than the women.

    Tricky has talked about the position of the racquet tip during the takeback as setting up the kinetic chain used in either style: push style - tip points straight up; pull style - tip points towards the net. I've alternated between the two tip positions and find that the way my body loads for the shot is very different between the two. With the tip up I tend to stride into the shot; whereas with the tip pointing forward I sit and lift.

    (Even while hitting neutral stance (step-downs in David Bailey's classification) the way my legs and hips load energy is different between the two takebacks, so it's not simply a neutral vs. open thing.)

    I was looking at some vids yesterday of Federer hitting forehand groundstrokes and forehand serve returns - comparing the two. On groundstrokes his takeback is inverted with the tip pointing towards the net, but on returns the tip often points straight up - suggesting the push style. Because the footwork is different for returns I can't tell if he's hitting a push stroke on returns or not. But I think that analyzing one player doing both takeback styles might be a good way to evaluate Tricky's push/pull model in a different light.

    Hopefully this triggers some productive discussion.
     
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  11. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    on service returns, there is simply no time.. its just a short takeback and get the ball in play
     
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  12. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I agree with that. I don't really like the labels myself; sometimes I use "ATP vs. WTA", or "Angular vs. Linear"; none are really that good.

    Your hitting arm naturally follows what your guide arm does. So, if your guide arm pronates, your hitting arm pronate as well. If your guide arm supinate, your hitting arm will supinate. If your guide arm does neither, your hitting arm will do neither and the racquet will stay on a relatively "n edge" position, a la Agassi or Hewitt.

    So, basically, all you really need to do is pronate the guide arm and let the hitting arm naturally do it's thing. It will naturally pronate and straighten out on its own, and you may not even notice it unless you look in a mirror.

    corners,

    I see the causation in reverse. If you choose to use an over-the-shoulder finish, your stance will not be as open. In terms of the hitting arm position (i.e. double bend vs. straight arm), that's actually a product of something else (i.e. turn vs. loop-based takebacks.)

    If you want, you can go through this experiment.

    1) First, shadow swing your normal WW FH (below the shoulder.) Notice the shape of your loop and your hitting position configuration.

    2a) Now, take a book and put it in front of your right foot. Execute your motion again, but without moving that book. Notice the shape of your loop. It's probably a strong loop. Notice your hitting configuration, It's probably a strong double-bend. Notice your stance. Probably very open.

    2b) Now try the same steps with 2a), but now finish over the shoulder. My guess, you'll notice that the stance is less open, the double-bend is mild, and the contact point is farther out.

    3a) Now,stand on that book with just your right foot. Execute your WW FH, pushing off that book with your right foot. Notice the shape of your loop. It's probably very straight. Notice your hitting configuration. It's almost straight, and the contact point is way out in front. Notice your stance. It's open, but not as open as 2a.

    3b) Finally, try the same steps of 3a), but now finish over the shoulder. Notice how the hitting configuration features a stronger double-bend, the contact point is in, but that the stance is essentially neutral.

    Steps 2 and 3 represent basically 4 subtypes of FHs you see among the guys. 2a would be Blake and Roddick. 2b - Agassi. 3a would be Federer. 3b is probably Berdych.

    Finally, it's worth reiterating again that a straight-arm in the takeback and a straight-arm at contact are mutually exclusive and are not related. Either may happen without the other.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
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  13. corners

    corners Legend

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    Yeah, definitely. But what I'm curious about is if the short takeback due to lack of time (which also happens to have the tip toward the sky in Federer's case) results in a push stroke rather than the pull Federer uses on groundies.
     
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  14. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    Cool. I tell you I first saw Berdych forehand and I was surprised everyone liked it so much because to me it looked a bit like..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw-AMJb2G04&feature=related

    But with the push pull theory I guess she supinates with her hands...which makes it a push shot. I think the finish looks kinda similiar.. I guess I have to look beyond the finish.
     
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  15. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    Pull stroke hit with the arm trail behind your shoulder to take advantage of the Kinetic Chain. near contact, arm will independently snap up. (federer, henin)
    Push stroke hit with the arm and shoulder rotate forward as one unit, transfer solidly the body rotation and body weight into on racket face. (hewitt, williams sister)
    See what he does, and conclude by yourseft.
    Pull stroke have introduced long years ago, push stroke just recently. No matter you like or not, if you want a 5.0 forehand, it should be rested in these 2 mechanic.
    if you want to teach student, this is the sure way to start. Your way may succeed latter, but it will be a long rocky road. And if you can come up with something better, we will be very happy to learn and hat off to you.
     
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  16. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    you are absolutely right, some people judge push stroke by looking at the tip of racket pointing sky, and they are correct. push stoke stike with arm and body in one plane, therefore time consumming of the hand to the stiking zone is less than pull stroke (trail behind). the easiest way to do it is to ponit racket tip up sky (less distance travelling) or racket tip point to the net (more distance travelling)
    In fact, you really do not need to point up sky or the net to execute a push stroke. as long as you rotate forward arm and body in one unit.
     
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  17. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    the racket take less time from the ready to the contact if you hold tip up sky.
    Most male pro can hit both, pull or push, particular on high bouncing ball. you cannot snap over (pull). I saw Chela hit all bouncing ball by push.
    It's interesting that i saw Xavier use Push stroke in Atlanta (!!!!)
    despite the fact that he is the hero of Nick B. pull stoke "Killer Forehand"
     
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  18. supineAnimation

    supineAnimation Professional

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    Again, I think throwing is a much better analog than pulling. The stretch-shortening cycle, which has become a staple of the modern forehand, is fundamentally a throwing action, and this has worked quite well for the large majority of the students I teach and it is particularly effective for those with any experience, even recreationally, with baseball. The action of the wrist moving quickly into extension as the forward throw is begun and then flexing the wrist through the release of the ball is a part of the mechanics for every pitcher and fielder throwing a baseball. And it is exactly the action that occurs with the stretch-shortening cycle of the forehand along with supination and pronation. Describing Federer's forehand, for example, as a pulling action is simply not accurate. And again, the legs push up, engaging the rotation of the hips, for every pro's forehand, including the ones you identify as belonging to the "pull" category, and the "push" forehands you identify also involve a kinetic chain of energy.. So even if we were to change the discussion to push vs. throw, these kinds of binary classifications don't work.
     
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  19. Mr_Shiver

    Mr_Shiver Semi-Pro

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    Hey Supine, if you call the "pull" a throw what would you call the "push" instead? I like the throw better than pull.
     
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  20. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    The name pull come from "Killer forehand" of Nick B.
    it's all Kinetic Energy involved in it in order to have extra speed.
    Throwing as you described, as wrist action. Pulling is not, You pull your arm by your shoulder. Arm stay behind shoulder as a fixed double bend, when shoulder slow down, arm will snap up, do not nesessary have to snap the wrist.
    Nick B. never mention snap wrist in his tape. Snap wrist is something you do not use at all until you are 5.0 and have a lot of time on the court in order to be efficient week in week out.
    Nick B. also emphasized the "pulling out of the slot" that is designed to hit thru the ball. that's a main part of pull stroke.
    Push is something completely different. we will talk about it, when question asked.
     
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  21. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

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    "Pulling" and "pushing" is almost the same thing.

    Either one implies extending and contracting the "rubber band" of your tendons - dragging the racket forward from behind (think "yo-yo").

    In case of pulling the extension is delayed until the forward swing.

    In case of pushing some chain elements are pre-extended (the forearm is pre-supinated). This should release less power/spin but should be easier to time and control.

    Pulling vs. pushing the forehand is the same as "non-stop service motion" vs "frozen in the trophy pose". The latter is a short motion so it probably gives less power and spin but is easier to time.
     
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  22. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    You are right if you say that's the action of pulling and pushing.
    PULL and PUSH stroke does not mean pull and push action. it's a long analysis take time and education to understand it.
     
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  23. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    Exactly. The issue is Serena 'throwing' as well? I don't really want to get caught up in the push/pull thing but I am curious about the difference of outwardly similiar styles like Berdych and Serena..
     
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  24. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    Serena is definitely a push stroke, the mater of fact, all Doug King works will go unnotice without the successfull story of the Williams Sister. They set the tone of the push stroke that most all WTA use now, and in the future.
    Some ATP players switch to push, they all love the power of Fernando Gonzales FH !!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
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  25. supineAnimation

    supineAnimation Professional

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    I think push is a fairly apt description of what the legs, hips and core provide on most forehands, but my problem is with the idea that there are these two exclusive categories and that every player hits a forehand that is either one or the other. I don't watch a lot of women's tennis, but take any of the male pros that have been identified as hitting with a push forehand, including Gonzalez and I guarantee you that they are performing the stretch-shortening cycle which, for clarity's sake only, the push/pull contingent would call a pulling action. Not to mention that all top pros hit myriad distinct forehands (according to Vic Braden, Federer hits something like 26 consistently distinct forehands), some that would be classified as "push" and some "pull" by those prescribing to those categories. Take Nadal: that dude throws his racquet at the ball with a huge amount of stretch (extension and supination) and a lightning-fast shortening (flexion and pronation). Yet, he uses his legs, hips and core to push his upper body up and towards his target with more pushing force than anyone else I've ever seen.

    So I would simply say that all of the pros you watch use their legs, hips and core to push their body weight into the shot and all use a throwing action with their arm and racquet. Some forehands involve more throwing of the arm and less pushing from the lower body; others less throwing of the arm and more push from the lower body.

    Couldn't disagree with this more. It's not really a snapping of the wrist, but I teach the stretch-shortening cycle to all of my students, from beginners to 4.5s. It is, in my opinion, the best way to get free power and spin and it does not require any particularly high degree of coordination of athletic prowess. Most often my students, particularly the sub-3.5 players, are astounded at how much power and spin they get from it without any muscle exertion, and the results almost always present themselves by the end of the first and second lesson in which they've worked on the stretch-shortening cycle. Modern racquets are designed to be implemented in this manner and I believe wholeheartedly that the stretch-shortening cycle should not be perceived as something limited to higher level players.
     
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  26. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    For the sake of argument, I'd say Gonzo hits a pull-style FH. The stretch shortening cycle is not exclusive to either style.

    Push vs. pull are just labels (and maybe "throwing" is more appropriate); but if you watch A LOT of WTA FHs, you'll start to see noticeable differences that seem counterintuitive in a typical WW FH. Of course, if you don't want to emulate a WTA-style FH, this is not even a relevant discussion and a difference might as well not exist, really.

    1) Serena's racquet tip is straight up as she sets up the unit turn. If you held the racquet this way, you'll notice that your triceps, outer part of forearm, and upper pecs become the primary "arm muscles" that control the swing.

    2) Notice that her non-hitting arm is lower than your typical male FH, and that her hand is pointing at the ball.

    3) During the takeback, her arm supinates and naturally straightens out, whereas in a male FH, if the arm supinates ("pats the dog"), the bend is preserved through takeback. This is due to different muscles working in conjunction.

    4) Her hitting configuration resembles a sharp V with the bottom of that V pointing straight down. This is also typical of a push-style stroke.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
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  27. forthegame

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    Berdych moves like Fed
     
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  28. corners

    corners Legend

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    And hits the forehand like him too. Actually, I think his forehand most resembles Federer from around 2003-2004.

    Tennisplayer . net has quite a few clips of Fed from that period. If you compare them with those of Berdych, especially those of both men hitting from the neutral stance, I think you'll see the similarity.

    Fed's takeback has become more compact and linear as his career has gone on, but I'm not sure the stroke is better now than before. But I reckon it's faster to setup, which helps if he's half a step slow against the big hitters.
     
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  29. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    Doesn't look much like Feds to me. Look at Fed's arm angle when he finishes..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvZ7prb43Lk

    He has more "snap" or "pronation" in the forehand (I don't want to get too caught up in the labels).. But that's why it finishes lower.. Also the swing "angle" is lower. Again this is tricky because with the pronation the racquet still moves upward before impact quite a bit but circular upper cut motion looks less apparent..


    Berdych..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyBwbQF5H6E

    This looks alot like an Agassi forehand - which again Fed doesn't really hit like.

    Also I got to say part of me thinks the whole pull push thing is a false designation to slam the female players..like Serena

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw-AMJb2G04

    It sure looks like she pulls on the racquet out of the slot - which is classic bolleteri terminology..
     
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  30. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, the tricky thing about the whole push/pull theory is that the distinctions are more there with the unit turn and takeback than the forward swing and finish. It really goes into aspects of mechanics and kinetic chain that lets you come up with really strange, but functionally correct strokes. For example, you can use the theory to show a true crosscourt open-stanced 1H/2H BH, or even an open stanced serve. Would you want to actually use one? Probably not.

    Not meant to be as such. If you go with the theory, you can actually hit the ball harder using a "push"-style, provided that you had time to set up, use a neutral or closed stance, and stride into the shot. Sampras's own FH was push.

    But, again, the labels themselves aren't especially accurate or useful for most people. I wish I had better ones.
     
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  31. ProgressoR

    ProgressoR Hall of Fame

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    great timing, I was just thinking about this, i found in my last hit, i set up pretty early, full turn etc for FH, then the ball was coming just a tiny bit lower than i thought, so i just stepped into it, swivelling on my left foot, and did my usual (what i will call push for the sake of argument) body and shoulder turn FH, and it worked great, the power control pace etc was v v good for me.

    So this is a legitimate method, striding into the shot?

    thanks
     
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  32. corners

    corners Legend

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    Those are quite different forehands (stance and court position). If you compare 2003-2004 Fed neutral stance to Berdych neutral stance you'll see what I was talking about. tennisplayer . net has the best collection of old Fed forehands. If you've got access to that I'd be happy to send you the links.

    From 2007 on Federer started hitting more and more with pure whip, more like Nadal. Before that he very often hit neutral stance forehands that look like Berdych now, but more fluid. tennisplayer has a bunch of clips of neutral stance forehands from 2009 and they look very different from the 2003-2004 stuff.

    But the slot is way behind her body, which, according to the push/pull designation guys, is part of the definition of the pull stroke. Try initiating the stroke yourself with the tip pointed to the sky, then with the tip pointed forward. Then alternate from one to the other. I think you'll find differences in the stroke from the feet up.

    Here's a vid of Fed and Ljubicic rallying. Fed with the slingshot/whip style and Ljuby going all push, much like Serena.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpD8m_X5qSM

    I think Tricky's right: there's nothing wrong with Push. The women hit a hell of a lot better than I do. But what interests me about this stuff is two things. 1. I think it's possible to get caught between the two styles, which can mess up a stroke. 2. The best forehands in the world, the evolutionary, game-changing, slam-winning, legend-making forehands, are all variations of the pull style.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
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  33. jmverdugo

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    Push? Pull? it is more like BOOM! ;)
     
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  34. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    snaping the wrist is not a consciencious action, and it never be, it's exactely as you said, a natural move forward of the wrist that add more speed and spin.
    what it does, and it need to be done is the ball have to have contact first then the wrist looseness will keep it follow.
    As a wrist player, i do have a lot of experience with it:
    it do need how much pressure you have on your grip in order to have a good hit, too loose it will be a weak hit, to tight it will be no wrist.
    for 3.5 no, sometime they have good pressure, sometime they don't, and it will give them all kind of unforce errors.
    what happenned when they don't? too loose a wrist repeatly will lead to injuries.
    this kind of action of the wrist is not something new, not at all and have many, many discussion on it.
    to the end, it depend on your talent, if you can snap the wrist like Nadal, go ahead, if you can't a ww is more than enough and safe.
     
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  35. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    i wish you told me so. i spend one year, try to add all kind of snap (pull) to my push stroke, all fail miserably. i finally, after watching push pro in person: all of them use only one: ww.
    the journey end.
     
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  36. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    pull and push, the name don't means anything if you do not hit good. it's the concept behind it that count:
    1. you need a small hammer with a quick strike to distroy things: pull: all racket speed (kinetic Energy is the main source)
    2. you need a big hammer with a slow strike to distroy things:
    push: all body weight you put on your swing (rotating body and arm as one unit). hit with your body rotation.
    Again the name do not mean anything, you can call anything, but the action count and stand for the concept behind it.
     
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  37. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    It is. Ideally, you want to step into your shot.

    The unit turn is, ideally, where you start loading your legs and hips. For that to happen, your momentum has to go forward when you initiate the unit turn. This is also true for BHs.

    There's a few ways to shadow swing this..

    1) Before you begin your stroke, have just your right foot step on a book. Then initiate the unit turn and the rest of your stroke.

    OR

    2) Stand on just your right foot and initiate your unit turn. Land on your front foot as you swing forward.

    Both ways gets you to start pushing off the right foot as you initiate the unit turn. This is hip rotation and the basis for weight transfer. For your BHs, you can do the same thing, using your left foot.
     
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  38. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    Its not really a wrist snap but in arm turn I guess. I don't like to get into specific biomechanics but I think you can consciously turn the racquet over so to speak where your pinky goes from the bottom to the top..This video explains it alot better then me..

    Go to 2:20 in the video. Its a introductory video so you don't really want to watch the beginning part.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0RndYbEl3s&feature=PlayList&p=E337D0F684CE0306&playnext=1&index=9

    I find that you can do the same thing to the backhand - both one hander and two hander. Henin and Federer both add some extra 'turn' to the racquet at the end of the backhand.. (And my coach was recently working with me to add this to mine)..This racquet turn (I don't care which muscles create it) is what causes the racquet to finish lower IMHO..on the forehand and finish more out to the right side on the OHBH.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCQ50D2fIKI

    I don't think its just loose wrist - as you can finish differently (though few pros do) and hit it without that little flourish.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TkaGB4zqDk&feature=related

    The same idea in the 2HBH. (2.57) in.. I don't know its really a 'wrist" movement I think the whole arm is involved.
     
    #38
  39. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    can you post a link of a male ATP "push" Fh?
    I don't think any good pro push the Fh, but that probably just means that I don't understand what you mean by "Push".
    thanks in advance
     
    #39
  40. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    You are absolutely right, there is time that we concienciuos accelerate the wrist, there is time we do not.
    most of the time, when i have a slow ball comming, i really slap my wrist thru it, and it give real good result. what it is, if you have a good look at it, you can make a succesfull hit.
    But most of the time, with fast ball comming, there is no time for you to tell yourseft to execute the snap.
    in my 10 years of using wrist, i been having a good time with it, but mostly bad time:
    the timming, the degree of pressure you put on your grip becomes harder and harder to execute, particular in fast ball under pressure. One you make a bad hit mostly because of your grip pressure, then the day is almost over, getting worse and worse. In some case i have to stop, calming me down, skake my wrist, and hopefully it will get better. My partner he use wrist too, he told me: it's not just you, it's not just your opponent, it even with your double partner that can bother you and make your wrist off the hook.
    Some people can do it, but not me. I'am surprised if a 3.5 can use wrist over 5 consecutive hit. My hat off to him , they are all future Nadal in the making.
    To me, for all my poor experience, there is one thing i can tell you: learn the Push. (serena)
     
    #40
  41. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    #41
  42. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Interesting and I see what you point to..

    I still think they pull at the important point of up and across the ball with the right to left wt shift, so I wouldn't consider either a push.

    But I do get it from your perspective on the aspect of getting the racket to the ball.
     
    #42

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