Best 15 women and men playlers of the 90s

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by thalivest, Jul 31, 2010.

  1. thalivest

    thalivest Banned

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    Who do you consider the 15 best mens and womens players of the 90s. This is taking into account ONLY their performances and tennis in the 90s, no other parts of their careers for those careers extended into the 80s or 2000s.


    Here would be mine.

    Women:

    1. Graf
    2. Seles
    3. Hingis
    4. Sanchez Vicario
    5. Davenport- discounting her 2000s achievements
    6. Navratilova- again taking into account only her 90s tennis
    7. Novotna
    8. Martinez
    9. Pierce- some of her achievements were definitely 2000s
    10. Sabatini- alot of her best tennis was also late 80s
    11. Fernandez
    12. Serena- not higher since she only broke out final year of decade
    13. Venus
    14. Majoli- fluke French Open title is only reason she makes list
    15. Date

    honorable mentions- Coetzer, Huber, Maleeva sisters, Sukova, 90s Capriati, Garrison


    Men:

    1. Sampras
    2. Agassi- only edges on Courier in final year of decade
    3. Courier
    4. Edberg
    5. Becker
    6. Chang
    7. Muster
    8. Rafter
    9. Stich- versatile performer, slam final on every surface
    10. Ivanisevic
    11. Bruguera- almost feel generous since he could barely play worth a darn most times outside of clay
    12. Krajicek
    13. Kafelnikov- a 2 slam winner who couldnt even win a Masters title
    14. Lendl- was a force still in the early 90s including 1 slam win
    15. Todd Martin- no slams but very solid performances virtually all decade

    honorable mentions- Moya, Korda, Rios, Pioline, Kuerten, Gomez, Corretja
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2010
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  2. Bossy

    Bossy New User

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    You forgot about Michael Stich; Wimbledon title, two other slam finals and number 2 in the world.
     
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  3. thalivest

    thalivest Banned

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    Ooops thanks. I added him to my list and bumped Moya out of my top 15 as the guy just never impressed me much even when winning. Kind of like the Spanish Kafelnikov with a few Masters titles, but with no 2nd slam.
     
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  4. Bossy

    Bossy New User

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    Stich always stood in the shadow of Boris Becker, so people tend to overlook him.
    Anke Huber is also a bit underrated because of Steffi Graf.
    She still made a slam final and the final of the YEC:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLemX_u0fWQ
     
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  5. thalivest

    thalivest Banned

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    I agree Stich was underrated. I dont think Huber was underrated. People respect her for what she was, a dangerous player and a good outside top player of that era. She was a regular round of 16 kind of player in slams. She is thought of with people like Date, Coetzer, Majoli. Good but clearly not even at the same level as Sabatini or Novotna as threats.

    The 1995 WTA Championships is the shining event of her career and it still didnt end with the trophy. She was beaten quite easily in her one and only slam final.

    Her slam results are indicative of her level:

    Champion- 0
    Finalist- 1
    Semifinalist (or better)- 3
    Quarterfinalist (or better) - 7
    Round of 16 loser- 13
    3rd round loser- 9
    2nd round loser- 7
    1st round loser- 7
     
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  6. nfor304

    nfor304 Banned

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    i would have rafter higher than ivanisevic. Rafter only had a couple of good years in the 90s but he still won 2 majors that decade to ivanisevics 0
     
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  7. thalivest

    thalivest Banned

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    Ooops I forgot Ivanisevic's major wasnt even in the 90s. I bumped him a couple of notches.
     
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  8. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Throughout the whole 1990s?

    Women:

    1. Monica Seles
    2. Steffi Graf
    3. Arantxa Sanchez Vicario
    4. Martina Hingis
    5. Martina Navratilova
    6. Gabriela Sabatini
    7. Lindsay Davenport
    8. Mary Pierce
    9. Conchita Martinez
    10. Jana Novotna
    11. Mary Joe Fernandez
    12. Jennifer Capriati
    13. Iva Majoli
    14. Kimiko Date
    15. Serena Williams

    Men:

    1. Pete Sampras
    2. Jim Courier
    3. Andre Agassi
    4. Thomas Muster
    5. Boris Becker
    6. Stefan Edberg
    7. Goran Ivanisevic
    8. Michael Chang
    9. Sergi Bruguera
    10. Richard Krajicek
    11. Ivan Lendl
    12. Patrick Rafter
    13. Gustavo Kuerten
    14. Marcelo Rios
    15. Petr Korda
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2010
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  9. thalivest

    thalivest Banned

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    I predicted you would rank Seles over Graf, but Sanchez Vicario over Hingis and Courier over Agassi? Interesting. Also Conchita Martinez right out of the top 15? How were Fernandez, Capriati (90s only), Majoli, Date, or Garrison better.
     
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  10. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Oops, forgot Conchita :oops:

    Women:

    1. Monica Seles
    2. Steffi Graf
    3. Arantxa Sanchez Vicario
    4. Martina Hingis
    5. Martina Navratilova
    6. Gabriela Sabatini
    7. Lindsay Davenport
    8. Mary Pierce
    9. Conchita Martinez
    10. Jana Novotna
    11. Mary Joe Fernandez
    12. Jennifer Capriati
    13. Iva Majoli
    14. Kimiko Date
    15. Serena Williams
     
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  11. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Says the man who put Chang above Muster. LMAO.
     
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  12. thalivest

    thalivest Banned

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    I did so since Chang was a much better player on non clay surfaces than Muster. I know Muster played well vs Chang on various surfaces but it doesnt change how well Chang was doing on various hard courts and that he even made the final of the ATP World Championships on carpet once. He has to be the best hard court player to not win a hard court slam other than Borg. On grass Chang isnt great but by virtual default he was better than Muster atleast there. Muster was greater and far more dominant on clay than Chang was on any one surface though. That is why they are so close.

    So how is Sanchez better than Hingis in the 90s? Hingis was the overall dominant player of the late 90s and completely dominated 1997. Sanchez never came close to something like that. Along with 5 slams to 3, way more time at #1, etc...Not to mention on top of all of that Sanchez probably benefited quite a bit from the Seles stabbing too.

    And if you are considering the head to head between Muster and Chang, Sanchez was Hingis's pigeon to the 9th degree from the time they first played when Hingis was 15 years old.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2010
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  13. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Muster was number 1 for 6 weeks. Chang never got to number 1.
    Muster won 8 masters titles. Chang won 7.
    Muster leads the head-to-head against Chang by 6-3.
    Muster has 44 career titles. Chang has 34.
    Muster had a feeling of invincibility during a part of his career. Chang never had this, even at his very best.

    It's close, but I think Sanchez Vicario had the better decade overall.
     
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  14. thalivest

    thalivest Banned

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    If you are going to use those things as your basis for acting as if my putting Chang over Muster was some kind of outrage, it is even more baffling you would put Sanchez above Hingis.

    Sanchez spent all of 12 weeks ranked #1, and needed Graf to miss almost half a year with injuries to even get that (in addition to Seles still being away). If she didnt win 4 slams people would be talking about her as one of the worst #1s ever. Hingis became the youngest ever #1 and then held it for 80 straight weeks. In total she spent 124 weeks in the 90s alone ranked #1.

    Sanchez Vicario was at best only considered the best player in the World (maybe) in late 94 after the U.S Open and never again. She was certainly never considered the games dominant player. Hingis was considered the best player in the World all of 1997-1999 apart from that period in late 1998 where Davenport went on a huge tear on hard courts on her way to taking the #1 ranking. And she was extremely dominant, a chasm over the other women in 1997 and early 1998, the kind of dominance Graf and Seles had at their peaks during this period.

    And Hingis did have an aura of invincability for awhile. Sanchez certainly never had that. She had a "maybe she can sneak out a win if Graf gets hurt or plays poorly" vibe at best.

    And what about the career head to head of Hingis vs Sanchez Vicario, 18-2, ROTFL! I am not sure what it is for the 90s alone, but I think Sanchez had to actually wait for the 2000s to get her first ever win.

    And in the 90s alone:

    Hingis won 5 slams, Sanchez Vicario won 3 (and I am sure you will say she would have been lucky to win even 1 this decade without the Seles stabbing)

    Hingis won 3 straight Australian Opens, Sanchez never defended a slam title.

    Hingis won 3 slams in the same year, Sanchez won 2 in the same year once.

    Hingis won the 1998 WTA Championships (and 2000). Sanchez never won this event.

    Hingis won 9 tier 1 titles in the 90s (17 for her whole career)
    Hingis won 26 WTA tournaments in the 90s (43 for whole career)

    Sanchez won 6 tier 1 titles in the 90s Sanchez won 26 WTA tournaments in the 90s, probably the only stat they are equal on, and 29 for her whole career.

    Seriously when I saw you having Sanchez above Hingis it was one of the biggest WTF moments. I actually assumed it was a typo.

    Despite having only 1 fewer slam singles title Sanchez Vicario is not even in the same league as Hingis really. I remember during a match they played Tracy Austin stated matter of factly "it really feels like Aranxta has no chance at all when she plays Hingis since Hingis does everything she does better. There is maybe not one thing Aranxta does better than Hingis." Aranxta was a bit past her prime perhaps but she wouldnt have fared much better in her prime at all.



    Now back to Muster and Chang, Muster never had an aura of invincability on anything except clay. He did have that aura on clay in 1995 and 1996 for sure though. So I would agree with that point only with a clear qualification.

    Yes Muster won 44 titles but 40 of those were on clay. Chang won most of his tournaments on hard courts too but won quite a few on carpet and clay too. 21 of his 34 titles were on hard courts.

    Anyway I dont even really care about Muster and Chang, I would just love to see how you even begin to explain rating Sanchez over Hingis for the 90s.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2010
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  15. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    ... with zero Wimbledons.

    ... with Wimbledon titles in 1991, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996.


    That's why Clijsters is ahead of V. Williams in the 00s.
     
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  16. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    In my opinion, there is no comparison whatsoever. Chang by a relative landslide (I say relative since they both ended up with only 1). True GREATNESS, is about the slams. In terms of slam performances, there is just no comparison. Chang was serious contender at everything for several years except Wimbledon (and even his efforts there, crush Muster), and his performances reflect that.
     
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  17. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    chang didn't win a slam in the 90s ....
     
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  18. Trillus

    Trillus Banned

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    1. Graf
    2. Seles
    3. Hingis
    4. Davenport
    5. Sanchez Vicario- very lucky player
    6. Novotna
    7. Pierce
    8. Martinez
    9. Navratilova
    10. Sabatini
    11. Fernandez
    12. Serena
    13. Venus
    14. Capriati
    15. Date or Huber


    Men:

    1. Sampras
    2. Agassi
    3. Edberg
    4. Courier
    5. Becker
    6. Rafter
    7. Muster
    8. Chang
    9. Stich
    10. Ivanisevic
    11. Kafelnikov
    12. Krajicek
    13. Kuerten
    14. Bruguera
    15. Kodra or Martin
     
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  19. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    ............................................
     
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  20. DMan

    DMan Professional

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    Steffi Graf: Year end #1 five of 10 years. Spent more than half the entire decade ranked #1!

    Graf: 14 majors won in the 1990s. (Only Navratilova and Federer have won mroe in a single decade!) 5 Wimbledons, 3 US Opens, 4 French Opens, 2 Australian Opens
    Seles: 9 majors (grand total of 0 Wimbledon titles!)

    Graf: 7-5 H2H advantage over Seles in the 1990s.

    Only a Selestial would rank Seles ahead of Graf! Especially since there is an attempt to realistically rank other top players of the decade.

    Really is sad!
     
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  21. Trillus

    Trillus Banned

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    I assume he is one of those who feels Seles would have won more slams than Graf this decade had she not been stabbed. In fairness Seles did win 8 slams outside the 93-95 period and Graf won 7 outside of that period. So what would have happened in that 93-95 period and thus whether Seles would have been able to atleast match Graf's slam wins total during this time to still have won 1 or more overall for the decade still is anyones guess. Personally I dont like living in a land of what ifs so stick with the actual facts and give the obvious edge to Graf.
     
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  22. Trillus

    Trillus Banned

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    Some aspects of this list made me laugh. Muster at #4 over Becker and Edberg!?!? Seriously. How can you even begin to justify that.

    Sanchez Vicario over Hingis?!? Are you from Spain by any chance. Hingis trumps Sanchez Vicario soundly in every category. Please give me a single plausible reason for ranking Sanchez over Hingis in the 90s.

    Courier over Agassi for the decade I wouldnt say is ridiculous, but is an interesting call. Agassi has only 1 more slam and could never match Courier's early 90s dominance. However Agassi won all 4 slams, the Olympic Gold, and the WTF in the decade while Courier only won at the Australian and French Opens (albeit twice of each). Agassi was a force at the beginning, some of the middle, and some of the end of the decade. Not the best consistency but still more longevity in the decade than Courier who started off with a bust beginning in 1991, faded in the middle, and was obsolete by the end. Comparing the two directly Agassi was clearly the better player in 1990, late 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998, and 1999, Courier was clearly the better player in 1991, 1992, 1993, early 1994, and 1997. So quite close.
     
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