best analogy for 1hbh is...

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by luvforty, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    elbowing the ball... the racket will just follow.

    so take an eBH grip, you attack the ball with the elbow... low balls are easy for most people, it feels like attacking it with the outside of the elbow.

    high balls, the elbow has to be high to attack the ball, with the underside/inside of the elbow.

    drawing a sword is a terrible swing thought / analogy.
    throwing frisbee is better, but not by much.

    attack with elbow, it puts the hitting arm in the right position.
     
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  2. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    I'd say it depends... Very few tips or analogies are universal. If the idea of elbowing the ball fosters the right move, then it's good for that player. The problem that could happen for some though, might be that this analogy encourages swinging to contact with a bent elbow - when I elbow something or somebody, I don't do it with a straight arm.

    I also agree that the frisbee image is okay, but also not universal.
     
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  3. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    touche

    i have a bend 1hbh so i took it for granted lol.... straight arm just feels like lots of tension to me. (just me).
     
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  4. Mongolmike

    Mongolmike Professional

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    And if you've played a lot of frisbee (Ultimate for example), then the frisbee analogy can get your 1HBH all "wristy".

    Like fuzz nation said, it all depends. Whatever image works best for the individual... the needs of the one sometimes outweight the needs of the many.... lol.
     
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  5. slowfox

    slowfox Professional

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    When it comes to the 1HBH I think one word: Slap!
     
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  6. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Agreed.

    "What did the five fingers say to the face?!"

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    fail --- that's a fh
     
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  8. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Yeah but I couldn't find a good backhand slap :(
     
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  9. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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  10. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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  11. oldschoolrules

    oldschoolrules New User

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    I'd be a little concerned that "attacking" the ball with the elbow could cause one to lead with the elbow, which is an almost guaranteed recipe for disaster and tennis elbow. The slap (using the back of the hand, of course) or even frisbee throw seem to be much better - and safer - swing cues as they both keep the elbow "behind" the hand.
     
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  12. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

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    I've never heard of someone teaching the one-handed backhand this way. Sounds like a recipe for injury.
     
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  13. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    On the courts; hard & clay ...
    i think of a sling shot while aiming with the buttcap...

    either that or a firm p*mp hand down the line**.


    ** i don't condone violence
     
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  14. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    no injury risk... the idea is that it promotes the unit turn...

    and even if the elbow is 'ahead of' the hand, the arm muscles are passive, no stress on the elbow.
     
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  15. psv255

    psv255 Professional

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    I've found small checkpoints work more effectively than analogies for the 1hbh.
    Show back to the court, get low, buttcap to ball, lift a bit before contact, left arm back for balance (for righty).

    I agree that frisbee/sword aren't the best for the bh...
    Attacking with elbow, while effective in some cases, may cause others to arm the shot, or perhaps disconnect it from the rest of their body.
     
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  16. Swerve

    Swerve New User

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    I keep my offhand on the throat and off elbow high, turn and show my back, lead with buttcap, and then I pretend like I am unsheathing a sword. I feel like that works for me and helps me swing low to high.
     
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  17. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

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    Yes, I agree with you Fuzz Nation. Bent elbow at contact will put the racket head down dangling to the ground. May be it is a good example for an experienced player but for the beginner it will create the "bent elbow at contact" problem.
     
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  18. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    I esp like the keeping the elbow high in the backswing.
     
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  19. BevelDevil

    BevelDevil Hall of Fame

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    Luvforty's leading with the elbow is consistent with the frisbee analogy. Actually, the frisbee analogy is probably better since it emphasizes the relaxed arm.

    I like the body movement the frisbee encourages, but not the arm movement. Maybe a "straight-arm frisbee throw" would be the best analogy.

    Beginners (and probably intermediates) would be best served by straightening their arm early in the swing, probably during the backswing. (i.e., Federer should not be a model for beginners.)


    A possible problem with the "drawing the sword" analogy is that it may encourage arming the ball.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
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  20. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

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    In a high racket take back such as Federer's the arm is bent in the backswing but then just before contact, during contact, and after contact, the hitting arm is straight.
     
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  21. BevelDevil

    BevelDevil Hall of Fame

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    Yes, but I don't think this is an easy pattern for beginners to learn and/or execute well consistently.

    Federer and Dimitrov are unconventional in this regard.
     
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  22. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

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    Where are you getting this advice from? I have never heard of anybody advocating this on the one handed backhand. Are you making this up as you go along? Can you hit a one-handed backhand in real life??

    Every good ball striker I have seen with a solid one-handed backhand reaches out and makes contact in front of them, while hitting through the ball.

    Your advice would result in the player having an awkward contact point with their arm contorted in an awkward position. Can you give any examples of players with sound backhands that were taught in the manner you are advocating?
     
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  23. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

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    Luvforty, how does attacking the ball with your elbow promote the unit turn? When I make a unit turn, I coil my shoulders.

    When I try and follow your advice, it results in me contorting my arm. Telling someone to attack the ball with their elbow does not evoke images of turning sideways and coiling one's shoulders, like you should be doing in your unit turn.
     
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  24. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    IMO Feds takeback is not really that high. I'd call medium high. true high take back, which I advocate along with strong wrist control, can be seen from gasquet, almagro, guga, gaudio, etc. height of the elbow is the key.
     
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  25. BevelDevil

    BevelDevil Hall of Fame

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    what's the role of a high elbow? And who are examples of low elbows?
     
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  26. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    lifting the elbow as high as the shoulder level but not higher allows a tad further cranking of the shoulder and arm structure and when released really takes advantage of rotational inertia for contact before opening up the upperbody for follow thru. faster racquet head speed.

    Blake is an example of low elbow takeback from top of my head and it's more associated with linear swingpath toward the contact point.

    obviously both methods can be developed into pro level strokes, but I believe the high elbow take back holds advantage in modern game because it can help dealing with high topspin balls better and also help generate more topspin from higher rhs.
     
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  27. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    how do you deal with the racket face opening up when you lift the elbow? do you change to a more extreme grip for higher balls?

    I have tried the above (with grip change), but didn't quite like it...

    so with the elbow-attack method..... for higher balls I just swing with a steeper path, meaning that the elbow starts low, so the face is still closed, then i use the elbow to lead the upper cut/side cut motion and let the racket follow (with an already closed face)..

    also I wanted to add.... that this elbow-attack method can change between flat ball to spinny ball quite easily..... for flat ball I will let the elbow go towards the target.... for spin, I feel like I am lifting the ball with the elbow.

    in either case - the legs and the torso does the work.... whatever the elbow does, since the pressure under the right arm pit is maintained to avoid separation, is a direct result of the legs lifting and the chest rotating
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
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