Best clay courters ever!!

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by JohnThomas1, May 3, 2004.

  1. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    977
    Here is my list

    1. Ivan Lendl
    2. Bjorn Borg
    3. Mats Wilander
    4. Gustavo Kuerten
    5. Thomas Muster

    i think a prime Lendl would beat Borg, he took him to 5 sets very early in his career. Lendl also used to beat wilander when both were playing their best. Any other idea's? :)
     
    #1
  2. Kirko

    Kirko Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,916
    Borg 7 French titles , obvious choice but his record stands alone . Lendl always seemed to be kind of "fragile" type ; when he won his 1st French against McEnroe he was spent thru up after he won a steady player but he couldn't carry Borgs rackets.
     
    #2
  3. Audiodude

    Audiodude Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    364
    Chris Evert certainly deserves a mention.
     
    #3
  4. Kirko

    Kirko Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,916
    Exactly !!!!! Her & Borg . The best !
     
    #4
  5. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,915
    Location:
    Parts unknown
    If saying of all time i think you have to throw Vilas in there. he once went like a whole clay court summer season w.o losing a match. he was a warrior on the clay. ed
     
    #5
  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    977
    Yeah i considered Vilas too. The Lendl that beat McEnroe wasn't a shell of the Lendl of say 1986. Borg would be the concensus choice tho, but i like the latter day Lendl. Evert on the womens front for sure. I think Seles would be mine for first tho. Pre accident. Hingis was good too.
     
    #6
  7. roundiesee

    roundiesee Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,861
    I think Guillermo Vilas was probably the best clay court player I have ever seen. His spins from both sides were amazing and his serve was also quite effective on clay. He is also such a powerfully built athlete and when he steps on court his opponent was usually overwhelmed even before the match started. Muster would probably be a close second.
     
    #7
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    977
    Those two were pretty similar styles i reckon.
     
    #8
  9. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,576
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    Men : 1) Borg 2) Vilas 3) Lendl

    Women : 1) Chris Evert 2) Steffi Graf
     
    #9
  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    977
    My 5 women would be

    1. Seles
    2. Graf
    3. Serena
    4. Venus
    5. Hingis
     
    #10
  11. Rocky Top

    Rocky Top New User

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    55
    1. Borg - complete dominance of his era; six titles is amazing
    2. Lendl - early 80s was still a boy; late 80s he was a man among boys
    3. Kuerten - three RG titles in an era of unparalled parity
    4. Wilander - played his best when it counted; three RG
    5. Courier - not a lot of respect these days, but still 2 RG titles & a final
    6. Brugera - 2 titles & final, why not top 5? 97 final, that's why
    7. Vilas - Ouch - 1 title but 4 finals! Corretja I know how you feel...
    8. Muster - much higher on this list without Key Biscayne accident
    9. Agassi - 1 title & two finals; could have had more in early 90s
    10. Ferrero - beats out Moya because he is more likely to win again

    As you can see I think French results trump just about everything else. Vilas over Borg? Six to one, six to one...
     
    #11
  12. alfa164164

    alfa164164 Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,164
    Location:
    ATL
    Borg is the GOAT on clay IMO - here's why.

    Here are some stats to think about pertaining to this discussion:
    Borg lifetime record on clay 137-19 (88%), from '73 to '81 he was 134-11 (92%), 6 French titles out of 8 tries, Head to Head 10-3 against Vilas (5-1 head to head on clay including a 6-1, 6-1, 6-3 thumping in the '78 French Final, hard to imagine anyone putting Vilas ahead of Borg) 5-2 against a young Lendl
    Lendl lifetime on clay 318-73 (81%) Head to Head against Wilander on all surfaces 15-7, on clay 6-4, at the French 2-2
    Wilander, Vilas, and Muster all had lifetime 77% win ratios on clay as follows: Wilander 264-80, Vilas 414-124, Muster 414-126
    Muster's summer of '95 was incredible, winning Estoril, Barcelona, Monte Carlo, Rome, Roland Garros, St. Polten, and Stuttgart with a 1st round loss at Gstaad in between St. Polten and Stuttgart being the only blemish during that run, 65-2 on clay for the year - WOW.
    But, BORG was the MAN on clay.
     
    #12
  13. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    5,380
    Location:
    England
    I don't think either Coria or Ferrero can be considered as the greatest Clay courters ever, YET!!

    I mean they only have one French between them.

    I however do think that in time they will both become very strong candidates for the title of "Best ever Claycourter".

    Liam
     
    #13
  14. Camilio Pascual

    Camilio Pascual Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,825
    Nobody comes anywhere close to Chris Evert.
    7 Roland Garros titles with a 72-6 record there.
    Won 125 matches in a row on clay during the 70's while winning 24 tournaments.
    'Nuff said.
     
    #14
  15. Lambro

    Lambro New User

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    89
    resistance

    is FUTILE


    BORG
     
    #15
  16. Kobble

    Kobble Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,365
    Muster had the most brilliant stretch of clay court play I can remember. I think it was 95' when Muster ran the table in route to a victory at Roland Garros.
     
    #16
  17. Hewittfan22

    Hewittfan22 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Messages:
    583
    1. Moya
    2. Ferrero
    3. Coria
    4 Safin
    5. Costa
    6. Zableta
    7. Agassi
    8. Kuerten
    9. Gonzalez
    10. Calleri
     
    #17
  18. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,576
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    Yes, but in '77 Vilas won 50 straight matches on clay, a record which may be threatened only this year by the new Guillermo, Coria.

    It should be noted that Vilas' 50-match streak was broken by Ilie Nastase playing with a then-legal spaghetti strung racket. A day or two after Nastase beat Vilas with the string job, the ILTA made it illegal. Vilas went on to win 9 or 10 more matches in a row. Had the ILTA made the string job illegal a couple of days sooner, Vilas' record may well have been 60 straight matches.

    Yet, for as good as Vilas was on clay, he was never any match for Borg. Vilas did everything Borg did, Borg just did everything better than Vilas.

    Camillio - you're right. It was a stretch to figure out who was second best behind Evert. She is the all-time clay queen.
     
    #18
  19. @wright

    @wright Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,567
    Rios could have been one of the best clay courters ever without his many injuries.
     
    #19
  20. Kobble

    Kobble Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,365
    I never knew Vilas won that many straight. It is very impressive.I really don't know much about the details of clay courters earlier than 90', so I am not surpirsed to learn of such a record.
     
    #20
  21. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    14,229
    Rabbit, Vilas won those 50 straight matches in 77 when the US Open was played on Har-tru and well documented by those Monday nite finals on PBS with Donald Dell and Bud Collins. Who needed ESPN.
     
    #21
  22. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,576
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    Dang...I haven't thought of those in forever. I can still remember Bud Collins talking about the Armitraj brothers in a dubs final. I knew I learned to dislike Donald Dell somewhere early on.
     
    #22
  23. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    977
    Records are good but i don't think Vilas would actually beat any of my top 5 on the court. Wilander bested him in the French final when about 17 from memory. Vilas must have been close to his prime. Pretty sure Lendl went ok against him too, a prime Lendl would have covered him. Borg needs no comment. Guga would be a bit powerful i think and Muster was an improved model. His record was super tho.
     
    #23

Share This Page