Best College Recruiter

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by cali_tennis_machine, May 10, 2011.

  1. cali_tennis_machine

    cali_tennis_machine New User

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    I liked the thread on who is the worst college recruiter.. What about who is the best??? I would like to add, many of the schools recruit for themselves so to me you must consider who has done the best from a non-traditional tennis school???
     
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  2. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    Boland in his early days had to build UVA. Now it recruits itself.

    Cal coach does a great job considering his competition. Washington coach is also very good.

    Also I think Josh Goffi new coach at South Carolina is a great recruiter and will have them back soon, unfortunately.(he recruited Cunha to Duke when he assisted there)
     
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  3. mikej

    mikej Hall of Fame

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    yeah, boland clearly deserves a mention in this thread even if he has reached the point where the top guys come to him now, it's incredible how he transformed uva tennis so quickly

    and goffi is a good call, he has some nice brazilian connections and seems like a very good guy

    i think ramsey smith is among the best as well (#8, #2, #4, #1 ranked classes in recent years - and yes, i know, lapidus was head coach at the start of that span - but i'm sure ramsey still had a lot to do with those #8 and #2 rankings as assistant coach)

    i can't imagine who wouldn't want to play for this guy - genuinely nice guy, brings great energy to the program, and has all the credentials you could want from a former college player:

    "Smith was a two-time All-America earning the honor in 2000 and 2001. He was named All-ACC three times in 1999, 2000 and 2001. Smith was named the ACC Tournament MVP in the 2000 and 2001 ACC Championship victories. In addition, he was a two-time recipient of the Tennis Magazine/Arthur Ashe Sportsmanship Award and was named to the ACC's 50th Anniversary Team in 2002."

    i don't see anyone being able to steal this guy away from his alma mater, and for that i am very glad
     
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  4. rodrigoamaral

    rodrigoamaral Hall of Fame

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    ramsey at duke
    goffi at USC
    smith at USC in LA
    Knoll at baylor
    steinberg at pepperdine
     
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  5. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Beware of recruiting class rankings. In addition to the fact that a top international can sign in late May or June and the voting on rankings might already be completed, a lot of those voters put too much weight into quantity. The top 25 recruits are blue chips. If you sign #18, #20 and #22 each year, you will probably be ranked top 5 in the country in recruiting every year. But after four years of that, you are really not expected to be a top 5 team, so it will look like you are underperforming with all that talent you recruited, which is not accurate.

    Four years back, Duke signed Reid Carleton, Jared Pinsky, and Alain Michel. That was ranked as the #2 class in the nation. That is one top player and two good depth position players.

    Three years ago, Duke signed David Holland, Luke Marchese, and Torsten Wietoska. That class was ranked #4. According to the poll voters, if you sign these three every year, you should be a top 5 team. I don't think so. I see three good depth position players.

    Two years ago, Duke signed "only" one player, Henrique Cunha, the best player they have signed in recent memory, and were not ranked in the polls! Sign a Cunha every year and no one else, and you will be an unranked team! Actually, you could get a couple of guys from the club tennis roster to play 5 and 6 and you would be a top 5 team with 4 Cunhas. Cunha probably signed after the voting.

    One year ago, Duke signed Chris Mengel, Fred Saba, and Cale Hammond. That class was ranked #1. Two top half of the lineup players in a single class, plus a good doubles and depth position player. I am still happy with signing Alex Domijan and Justin Shane, but Domijan signed after the voting, so Virginia was ranked #11.

    This year, Duke signed a good blue chip, Jason Tahir, and a good international from Switzerland, Raphael Hemmeler, but only Tahir signed early enough to count in the winter voting, so Duke was ranked #19, which is too low. That should be corrected any week now when the spring voting results are in.

    This year, Virginia "only" signed Mitchell Frank, who just reached a Futures final last week after having to play through the qualifying rounds, winning eight matches in a row before losing a three set final. With only this one blue chip recruit, we are ranked #6, while Cornell signed a much lower blue chip, three 5-stars, and a 4-star, and are ranked #4 as a result. If this trend continues, Cornell will be mopping up the courts against Virginia in a couple of years. After all, the #20 guy on their roster will be a good 4-star.

    Teams need to sign elite players who can play in the top 3 positions and win, not just sign huge quantities of 4-6 position players. Of course, if you are the Stanford coaches, you can sign elite top 3 players like Clayton, Klahn, and Thacher and still barely crack the top 10.
     
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  6. mikej

    mikej Hall of Fame

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    your point is well taken - certainly those rankings are not perfect, and i agree that they aren't highly correlated to dynasty building

    as a fellow acc man, would you nevertheless agree that ramsey is in the upper tier of recruiters? perhaps too early to decide, but i'm interested to hear your thoughts

    edit: i guess your response will probably be something along the lines of "we'll have to see how many cunhas/domijans/franks/carletons he can sign in the next few years" after giving your post some more thought...and yeah, true enough, good point - if anyone can reel in some of those guys to durham i think it's ramsey, we'll see
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2011
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  7. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    It looks to me like Ramsey has signed three guys in only two years who can compete at those difficult top 3 positions in singles (Cunha, Mengel, Saba). Most teams in the top 10 can only claim that they managed to get three such players in a four year cycle, so that puts Ramsey in elite company. If he keeps up that pace, he would eventually have a freshman of the caliber of Fred Saba playing at #6 in a couple of years. That sounds pretty impressive.

    Of course, scholarship dollars get spread thin and it gets hard to keep up the pace over four years. We will see how it continues.

    By comparison, in those same two years Stanford signed Kandath, Lin, Kehrer, Ball, and Ho, all blue chips, but all look like career position 4-6 players. Lin might be a good #3 by the time he graduates.

    No discussion of recruiting would be complete without a hat tip to Manny Diaz of Georgia, who is such a good recruiter that he can even recruit good players from other universities, not just from high school. :)
     
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  8. norcaltennisnut

    norcaltennisnut Rookie

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    I think a great judge of recruiting ability should come from coaches who made a big impact on the mid major level. When you talk about Georgia, USC, Texas, Pepperdine, UCLA, Duke it's really hard to give them the nod as great recruiters because they have blue chip guys begging to walk on and have all the top internationals wanting to go there. I would give more credit to this group because these guys have a lot less to work with and seem to have good programs. I obviously have a west coast list, but these are the teams that I have access to.

    Patton- Boise State
    Kroneman-UC Irvine
    Mills- Santa Clara
    Beaman-Idaho
    Udwadia- Frsno State
     
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  9. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Brian Boland made his mark at a low mid-major. That is how he got hired at Virginia. When he came to Virginia, they had no tradition at all in tennis. While it might be true today that a lot of blue chip recruits look at Virginia, that is only because of what he built.

    When you turn your attention to schools with a history of national championships such as UCLA, USC, Stanford, then your point is well taken.

    We should look at the current coaches at top 10 schools and see what they did before they got there. You will find that most of them had coaching success elsewhere, which is how they got hired. One underachiever out west comes to mind as an exception, of course.
     
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  10. cmb

    cmb Semi-Pro

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    Knoll at Baylor, I mean seriously...waco is a complete HOLE. And also Boland at UVA in the early days. I mean really, who wants to go to either of those cities. ????WACO??? lol
     
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  11. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Pretty hard to compare Charlottesville to Waco. Charlottesville consistently shows up in those magazine lists of best places to live, best tennis places, best places to retire, best towns for outdoor recreation lovers, etc. I missed seeing Waco on those lists.
     
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  12. cali_tennis_machine

    cali_tennis_machine New User

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    I agree with you, looking at mid-majors tells a lot. What Boland did at Indiana State I think is most impressive. For mid-majors to get good American talent is pretty challenging. Good mid-majors right now:

    UC Irvine
    UNC Wilmington
    South Florida
    Santa Clara
    Cal Poly

    Not sure how many have Americans in their Top 6.
     
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  13. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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    are you kidding me.. look at all the international players on your list..

    for this season and the next season I have to say UCLA... B.Martin got mostly all SoCal players to band up .. I love to see coaches stay 'homegrown" ,same with this coming season at UC Irvine ,a handfull of SoCal local kids.. :)
     
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  14. duusoo

    duusoo Rookie

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    Dave Gaetz when he was at Minnesota and Cornell. He can do it, and that can't be denied.
     
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  15. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    Great comments in the full post, and I agree with your views. In the TRN rankings, we do not give our panelists specific instructions on how to evaluate recruiting classes, and they have a wide variety of approaches. In my opinion, many of them place too much emphasis on depth - and some do not value international recruits enough. And, of course, we have the systemic problems of January admissions and the fact that players continue to sign throughout the summer after our rankings come out.

    Regarding large classes, my approach is to give full weight to the top player in a recruiting class, ~90% weight to the second player, and then to decay things exponentially for the third player and beyond. With 6 singles spots and 6 doubles spots - and in light of injuries, attrition, and the like - I think somewhere between 2 and 2.5 players per year contribute substantially to a team (with emphasis on the contributions of the top player).

    Best,
    Dallas
     
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