Best composite all time player?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Wondertoy, Sep 23, 2009.

  1. Wondertoy

    Wondertoy Professional

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    Sampras serve
    Federer forehand
    Gasquet backhand
    McEnroe half volleys
    Edberg volleys
    Pancho Gonzales overhead smash
    Agassi's return of serve
    Nadal's competitive mind
    Borg's concentration
    Chang's speed

    Who could beat this guy? This would be the specialist way to train an upcoming junior.
     
    #1
  2. Gasquet backhand????:shock::shock: are u joking?? Try Nalbandian instead.
    I respect Panchos achievments but i would pick Pistol Pete instead, and Mcenroes half-volley, now we are beginning to get a decent "creation" that would beat all robots in the world:)
     
    #2
  3. Nadalfan89

    Nadalfan89 Hall of Fame

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    McEnroe's volleys were better than Edberg's.
     
    #3
  4. what? WHAT? W H A T??
    Then i would like to know your age! You are crazy!!
     
    #4
  5. I have to agree with this, Agassi and Nalbandian
     
    #5
  6. baseliner

    baseliner Professional

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    I'll take Pancho's serve over Sampras (and so will anyone who ever saw Pancho); Kenny Rosewall's backhand, Jim Courier's inside out forehand and McEnroe's volley. Yes, Magician, McEnroe volleyed better than Edberg.
     
    #6
  7. No, Edberg had better volleys than Mcenroe
     
    #7
  8. baseliner

    baseliner Professional

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    I guess that is why Edberg had such great success at doubles.
     
    #8
  9. sanchino

    sanchino Semi-Pro

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    serve-1st Sampras 2nd Newcombe
    forehand- Federer, Vilas had a great topspion left handed, Nadal too
    backhand- Agassi (two handed)
    backhand- Lendl (one handed)
    half volleys- McEnroe, Federer close 2nd
    volleys- Edberg or McEnroe, I'd take McEnroe's
    overhead smash- Connors
    return of serve- Connors or Agassi, I'd take Connors
    competitive mind- Connors (determination)
    mental toughness/concentration- Borg
    speed/movement- Borg
    strategy- Ashe
    clutchness on big points- Borg
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
    #9
  10. Fedfan1234

    Fedfan1234 Rookie

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    Some names are just plain wrong, Chang or Gasquet should not be on this list. I am not saying my list is perfect, but certainly better than the your list.

    Karlovic serve
    Federer forehand
    Nadal's backhand
    Federer's half volleys
    Sampras volleys
    Sampras overhead forehand smash
    Federer overhead backhand smash
    Agassi's return of serve
    Nadal's competitive mind
    Borg's concentration
    Nadal's speed
    Federer's footwork
     
    #10
  11. drive

    drive Semi-Pro

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    You can find tons of posts like this one if you search a bit. It seems that people never gets enough of this kind of topics...
     
    #11
  12. He won 3 davis cup titles playing both singles and doubles and won several GS-doubles-titles, what the **** are u talking about?
     
    #12
  13. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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    Rosoe Tanner-1st serve
    Pete Sampras-2nd serve
    Pancho Segura- forehand
    Nalbandian- 2 hand backhand
    Ken Rosewall-backhand slice
    McEnroe -half volleys
    McEnroe -touch volleys
    Cash or Rafter put away volley
    Pancho Gonzales- overhead
    Agassi -return of serve
    Conners or Bobby Riggs-competitiveness
    Borg's -legs
    Chang's- foot speed
    Pancho Segura-strategy
    Arthur Ashe-coolness on the court
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
    #13
  14. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    Don't let the Edberg haters get to you TMOP

    Edberg has the most textbook-perfect volley I've ever seen (mind you, I've not seen more than a few clips of Mcenroe).
     
    #14
  15. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

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    Textbook or not McEnroe is a better volleyer than Edberg.
     
    #15
  16. SuperDuy

    SuperDuy Hall of Fame

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    I think roddick for first serve cmon guys, on pressure moments he brings an ace down the T.
     
    #16
  17. Shaolin

    Shaolin Hall of Fame

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    Serve: Karlovic, Ivanesevic, Roddick or Sampras
    Forehand: Federer
    Backhand: Agassi
    Net: Rafter or Edberg
    Footwork: Federer
    Raw speed: Nadal
     
    #17
  18. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    yes they were. and i am Napoleon Bonaparte...
     
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  19. jack the lad

    jack the lad Banned

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    1st serve: roddick
    2nd serve: sampras
    forehand: gonzalez
    Backhand: safin
    speed & footwork: nadal
    fitness: hewitt
    will to win: hewitt
    return of serve: nalbandian
    overhead: anyone, but probably roddick.
     
    #19
  20. Wondertoy

    Wondertoy Professional

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    No way. Hi sserve is fast but has no movement, hind of like a faseball pitcher with no movement. Hitters can hit those fastballs. That's why it's hard for Roddick to ace Federer. With Pistol Pete, you couldn't tell where he was serving. Fast does not equal best. Sampras> Karlovic> Tanner> Roddick.
     
    #20
  21. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with Mcenroe having better volleys than Edberg. If you were to say the same things to me, i would say im age 19 and i am crazy about wooden tennis!!
     
    #21
  22. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

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    Prime Fed could beat this guy.
     
    #22
  23. Iron Man

    Iron Man Rookie

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    Serve karlovic , Becker
    2nd serve Federer
    Federer forehand
    backhand del potro , Nadal
    Federer half volleys
    Mcenroe volleys
    sampras overhead smash
    Agassi's return of serve
    Nadal , Federer , Borg competitive mind
    Nadal's concentration
    Federer's speed
     
    #23
  24. Ambivalent

    Ambivalent Hall of Fame

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    I could beat that guy.

    Stupid threads deserve stupid answers.
     
    #24
  25. drwood

    drwood Hall of Fame

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    1st serve = Sampras
    2nd serve = Sampras
    Stationary FH = Federer
    Running FH = Sampras
    Stationary BH = Agassi
    Running BH = Safin
    Baseline half-volley = Federer
    Service line half-volley = McEnroe
    FH volley = McEnroe
    BH volley = Edberg
    FH overhead = Sampras
    BH overhead = Sampras
    FH return of serve = Agassi
    BH return of serve = Agassi
    Mental focus and determination = Nadal
    Fitness = Federer, Lendl or Nadal
    Speed = Nadal or Chang
     
    #25
  26. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    prime Fed was beaten by a crippled Nadal, who didn't have Karlovic' serve and sampras second serve, edberg's volleys and a Nalbandian bh.
     
    #26
  27. VivalaVida

    VivalaVida Banned

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    Wow what a stiff. :) It is a clear joke.
     
    #27
  28. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Bruce is one of the greatest *******s ever, he never jokes about his federer compliments.
     
    #28
  29. JeMar

    JeMar Legend

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    I just wanted to chime in and say that Edberg's backhand volley was better than McEnroe's, and his forehand volley was more technically proficient than Mac's. John McEnroe, however, was a genius at improvising at the net. I'd say it's a wash.
     
    #29
  30. ShooterMcMarco

    ShooterMcMarco Hall of Fame

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    I made one addition to your comprehensive list.
     
    #30
  31. ubermeyer

    ubermeyer Hall of Fame

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    A bunch of people could: like this guy:

    Karlovic 1st Serve
    Isner 2nd serve
    Gonzalez Forehand
    McEnroe half volleys
    Rafter volleys
    Agassi return
    Roddick smash
    Monfils Speed
    Nadal's concentration
    Federer's hunger to win slams / consistency in slams
    Murray's tactical mind
     
    #31
  32. lawrence

    lawrence Hall of Fame

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    Southpaw
    Flat Serve: Karlovic
    Forehand: Fed
    Backhand: Agassi
    Slice backhand: Fed
    Volley: Mac
    Backhand Volley: Edberg
    Overhead: Sampras
    Return of Serve: Agassi
    Lob: Hewitt
    Mental: Nadal
    Top speed: Borg
    Acceleration: Chang
    Footwork: Fed
    Consistency: Nadal
    Fitness: Hewitt
    Strategy: Fed
    Tweener: Fed lol

    all players in their primes of course

    now who could beat this guy?
     
    #32
  33. downdaline

    downdaline Professional

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    ^^^ I've watched both of them play and I totally agree with this. Edberg was textbook. McEnroe was out-of-the-box.
     
    #33
  34. darthpwner

    darthpwner Banned

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    McEnroe's s&v game was actually quite serve oriented. Edberg did not have McEnroe's serve, so he was more volley oriented. When Edberg was 17 he got injured in his shoulder and could no longer serve bombs. If he did have a big serve, then his volleys would have declined
     
    #34
  35. darthpwner

    darthpwner Banned

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    I think McEnroes forehand volley was better than Edbergs, and Edbergs backhand volley was better than Edberg. Edberg's Eastern grip made it difficult for him to hit DTL on forehand volleys. McEnroe's forehand volley could be placed anywhere. Edberg's backhand volley was a work of art though.
     
    #35
  36. jrepac

    jrepac Professional

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    Mac v. Edberg

    If I had to pick a volleyer to defend my life, it would be Mac....
    Edberg is excellent, but Mac was magic, particularly on the half volley against folks like Borg, Connors, Lendl. I think the comment re: improvisation is spot on.

    Return of Serve- Might lean towards Jimbo; Andre hits it harder but Jimmy tended to get back more serves that would typically be un-returnable

    Forehand -- Lendl perhaps being overlooked here? One of the most dangerous and consistent of all time.....either him or Fed, I think...Del Potro is maybe 3rd perhaps?

    Backhand--Andre/Nadal/Connors

    First Serve---Tanner or Roddick

    Volley---Mac or Edberg followed by Rafter or Cash

    Approach shots anyone? --- Connors hit some of the best...Mac too...

    2nd Serve---Pete Sampras

    Footspeed - Borg

    Overhead-- Pete/Jimmy

    Lobs? --- Lendl/Connors

    Mental game...coolness to Fed or Borg (never saw much of Ashe, so can't say)

    Determination/grit.....Connors or Nadal..

    oh what fun!
     
    #36
  37. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Agassi's BH is by far a better BH than Gasquet. He has arguably the best in the history of the game. And, "NO">>> Nalbandians doesn't come close for those saying so.
     
    #37
  38. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    LMAO


    LMAO
     
    #38
  39. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

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    #39
  40. BH volley-Edberg, THANK YOU.
     
    #40
  41. drwood

    drwood Hall of Fame

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    No prob, Magician :)

    Unrelated question; in your prime, could you have beaten 2002 Serena Williams? (I'm being serious)

    I know you were like 900 in the world at one point, right? Do you think at that point a match against prime Serena would have been competitive?
     
    #41
  42. Shaolin

    Shaolin Hall of Fame

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    This has to beat all of them.. Even my composite. Lefty Karlovic serve+Fed FH, Agassi BH=no possibility of breaking, EVER.
     
    #42
  43. 1970CRBase

    1970CRBase Guest

    If you had one advantage, you wouldn't have another one.
     
    #43
  44. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Yes

    Indeed, Edberg was number 1 in the world at Doubles. Edberg and McEnroe were the only two to share that honour.
     
    #44
  45. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    Backhand overhead: Nadal

    I think the shot might be called a "High Backhand Volley", though. Either way, I nominate Nadal for this. I've never seen someone so consistently hit this shot and WANT to hit this shot. It seems like Nadal sets himself up for this shot when he can. He clearly practices it alot.

    His forehand overhead smash is nothing to sneeze at, either. Although, it's not the best of all time, most likely.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention that Leander Paes is also excellent at executing the backhand overhead, as are many doubles players.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
    #45
  46. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Decided to have fun and break it down to decades from 1930 on.

    1930's
    Serve-Ellsworth Vines, John Doeg
    Backhand-Don Budge, Nusslein
    Forehand-Fred Perry, Nusslein
    Volley-Vines, Borotra
    Return of Serve-Budge
    Speed and Footwork-Perry
    Overhead-Vines
    1940's
    Serve-Jack Kramer
    Backhand-Frank Kovacs or Don Budge
    Forehand-Pancho Segura
    Volley-Kramer, Ted Schoeder
    Return of serve-Bobby Riggs, Frank Kovacs or Budge
    Speed and Footwork-Segura or Riggs
    Overhead-Kramer
    1950's
    Serve-Pancho Gonzalez, Lew Hoad
    Backhand-Ken Rosewall, Kovacs
    Forehand-Pancho Segura
    Volley-Frank Sedgman
    Return of Serve-Ken Rosewall, also Kovacs, Segura
    Speed and Footwork-Ken Rosewall
    Overhead-Kramer, Gonzalez or Lew Hoad
    1960's
    Serve-Gonzalez or John Newcombe
    Backhand-Ken Rosewall or Rod Laver with a nod to Rosewall, also Arthur Ashe
    Forehand-Rod Laver, Gimeno, Tom Okker or Newcombe
    Volley-Ken Rosewall, Rod Laver, Tony Roche
    Return of Serve-Rosewall, Laver
    Speed and Footwork-Rosewall, Laver, Roy Emerson, Tom Okker
    Overhead-John Newcombe
    1970's
    Serve-Newcombe, Roscoe Tanner, Arthur Ashe, Stan Smith, Borg
    Backhand-Connors, Rosewall, Vilas, Laver, Bjorn Borg, Arthur Ashe-slight nod to Connors
    Forehand-Clearly Bjorn Borg. Others-John Newcombe, Ilie Nastase, Tom Okker.
    Volley-Newcombe, Roche, McEnroe, Rosewall, Brian Gottfried (the man who was rumored to practice tennis on his wedding day.)
    Return of Serve-Borg, Connors, Rosewall, Laver
    Speed and Footwork-Borg first, also Nastase, Okker and Gerulaitis. Connors excellent also.
    Overhead-Dick Stockton
    1980's
    Serve-Boris Becker, Ivan Lendl, John McEnroe, Bjorn Borg
    Backhand-Borg, Edberg, Connors, Lendl, McEnroe, Agassi, Wilander, Miloslav Mecir
    Forehand-Lendl, Borg
    Volley-McEnroe and Edberg.
    Return of Serve-Connors, Agassi, Lendl, Edberg, McEnroe, Borg, Mecir
    Speed and Footwork-Borg, Wilander, Lendl, Gerulaitis, Wilander, Miloslav Mecir
    Overhead-Yannick Noah-He always put the ball in the stands, it seemed.
    1990's
    Serve-Pete Sampras, Goran Ivanisevic, Becker, Edberg
    Backhand-Edberg, Agassi, Chang
    Forehand-Agassi, Bruguera, Jim Courier, Pete Sampras, Chang
    Volley-Edberg, Sampras, Rafter
    Return of Serve-Agassi, Chang. Saw a stat on Tennisweek that Chang actually broke serve by percentage more than Agassi.
    Speed and Footwork-Chang, Sampras,
    Overhead-Sampras
    2000's
    Serve-Sampras, Roddick, Kuerten (underrated serve)
    Backhand-Kuerten, Nadal, Djokovic, Safin, Nalbanian (Nalbanian's backhand when he is on his game is incredible.)
    Forehand-Federer, Nadal
    Volley-Rafter, Henman, old Sampras
    Return of Serve-Agassi, Nadal, Coria, Federer, Murray, Hewitt
    Speed and Footwork-Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, Murray, Hewitt
    Overhead-??? Everyone seems very good.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
    #46
  47. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    Great list pc 1. Nice to have Kovacs put in. I read about him in Tilden's book. Must have been a real crowd pleaser. Some more discutable inclusions are: For the 30s, Aussie Vivian McGrath should have had a deadly double hander on the backhand. In the 40s, a fellow named Geoff Brown had a ferocious serve. For the 50s resp. 60s, one could include Budge Patty for the backhand volley, and Neale Fraser for the serve. Completely agree about Noah's overhead. Vilas had a great bh overhead (i think we talked about it a few weeks ago).
     
    #47
  48. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Vilas' bh overhead was amazing. The man had so much wrist strength.
     
    #48
  49. sh@de

    sh@de Hall of Fame

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    Serve - Karlovic, for both 1st and second
    Forehand - Federer
    Backhand - Nalbandian
    Volleys - Edberg
    Half volleys - McEnroe
    Return - Agassi
    Mental game - Nadal
    Footspeed - Nadal
    Footwork - Federer
     
    #49
  50. Bernie Mac

    Bernie Mac New User

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    I reckon Kohlshrieber has a nice one handed backhand. Its got the pace and can handle the high bounce spin by countering with his own spin on the ball
     
    #50

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