Best F1 driver right now- Vettel or Alonso

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by NadalAgassi, Sep 25, 2012.

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Best F1 Driver right now

  1. Alonso

    76.5%
  2. Vettel

    23.5%
  1. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    There seems to be some debate amongst F1 fans who is the best current F1 driver Sebastien Vettel or Fernando Alonso. They are the only current multi World Driving Champions. Vettel has won the last 2 World Championships but he has naysayers who say he only won due to a perceived vastly superior car. Alonso has made due with a car generally regarded as inferior to not only Red Bull but even McLaren the last 2 years, and despite that has been ahead of many of their drivers the last 2 years, and very nearly won the World Championship in 2010. This year the 3 cars seem closer than previous, even with most in the know still thinking Ferrari is probably the slowest of the 3, and Alonso is leading the World Championship over Vettel.

    So who do you consider the best F1 driver, Alonso or Vettel. The thing is I dont think there is anyone who regards Alonso as any less than 2nd best behind Vettel. Nobody views him as inferior to any of Hamilton, Button, Webber, Rosberg. Meanwhile Vettel has people who consider him the best but people who consider him down as low as 4th or 5th best, and people who consider him not only inferior to Alonso but some of Hamilton, Button, Weber, Rosberg, Raikkonen, as well.
     
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  2. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I think Alonso is the better driver personally, and obviously thus the best driver in F1 right now.
     
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  3. PSNELKE

    PSNELKE Legend

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    As a German I'd love to say Vettel.
    But let's be real, Alonso is the most skilled, talented driver in the field followed by Kimi, Lewis and Seb.

    I never really liked Alonso but damn that guy knows how to drive a F1 car.
    I was impressed with how bad the car was during the first few GPs and he still came out on Top now.
     
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  4. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Yeah, Alonso gets the nod here imo. He's shown a lot of skill in average cars many times before. Vettel is more like Mika Hakkinen was - awesome when the car is hooked up but a little impotent when it's not.
     
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  5. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    Since Hamilton is the one with Tony Stewart in the commercials here in the States I am supposed to think that Hamilton is the best driver.

    In the words of Ric Flair

    "To be the man you gotta beat the man"

    And the man is Vettel, he still has the title.
     
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  6. MarrratSafin

    MarrratSafin Hall of Fame

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    If best means fastest, the answer is Lewis Hamilton without a doubt. The fact is Hamilton started his rookie year only a tad slower than Alonso and by the end of that year he was already on par, if not faster than Alonso.

    But he is hampered by team errors, misfortunes with drivers and equipment, etc. Alonso has extremely good racecraft which is why he is leading the championship now.
     
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  7. Peters

    Peters Semi-Pro

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    I have to say, I'm rather interested in this thread. A year ago NadalAgassi, you made an F1 thread in here where you were adamant Vettel was the best driver in Formula1 (when he was whizzing off each race with his superdiffuser) and calling people idiots for suggesting otherwise.

    What changed?


    One thing's for sure, Alonso is a better driver than Vettel. Actually, I feel Alonso, Hamilton and Raikonnen are all better than Vettel and would have all won the last 2 championships in that 10/11 RedBull at a canter.

    It's not an exact science trying to work it all out though. In Formula1, it's never as black&white as simply counting how many championships have been won.
     
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  8. Pete.Sampras.

    Pete.Sampras. Semi-Pro

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    I'd give my vote to Alonso. He was a bit lucky with rainy conditions in the early races of this season, but in every race (except for the "unlucky" Spa) he did the best his car allowed him to do.

    Btw OP, don't forget about Schumacher. He is not fighting for the championship but that doesn't take his seven titles away (multi-champion drivers) ;-)
     
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  9. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Last year Alonso was driving poorly for his standards in addition to the slower car, his car was no worse than 2010 when he nearly won the World Championship despite also having far from the best car. Hamilton was also driving poorly last year and was being far eclipsed by Button in the same car so it is frankly laughable to say he would have won a World title in any car last year. This year both are driving much better than last year, and Raikkonnen is also back and driving very well in a much less competitive car, which makes it not as clear cut anymore, but last year Vettel was clearly the best driver in addition to having the best car.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2012
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  10. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Making mistakes and managing the car is part of being a better driver. Hamilton is much poorer in those areas which have to be factored in. It isnt all about speed. Given all the controversy that went on in McLaren the year Alonso and Hamilton were teammates there I also dont give much credence to anything that happened that year.

    I am no just talking "current" ability. Of course in career greatness Schumacher is the best, although he like Vettel benefited greatly from a dominant car most of his career, and I think ability wise someone like Alonso is just as good as him. However in current ability he has mostly of the time been below Rosberg in the same car since his return to F1 so he doesnt even factor in.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2012
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  11. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Now that Danica is racing NASCAR, I really don't know.
     
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  12. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    Thats the media speaking. Alonso was given the number 2 car hence the fallout between him and his team especially ron dennis. Towards the end hamilton was being favoured in every way you can imagine, even though he was a rookie and alonso a 2 time wc.

    Hamilton has the best car in testing this year and would probably be winning the title but for a slow start and some reliability problems. Hamilton will have the best car again next year when he moves to mercedes because of new regulations coming in 2013.
     
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  13. Peters

    Peters Semi-Pro

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    I'd disagree with that since the championship was sown up in that car either way, Vettel just had to keep it on the road. Whereas everyone else had to fight and scrap all season long with inferior equipment. (Apart from Webber, but he's on a low level compared to the best drivers like Alonso/Hamilton & co).
     
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  14. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Fair enough. The only way we will ever know for sure is to put everyone in the same car, but that will never happen.

    Hmm I think the new regulation will help Mercedes but the best car next year? Not impossible but I would be surprised. Either way Hamilton would be taking a gamble going to Mercedes, as what if they turn out to be still slower than McLaren. Who would he replace? Schmacher has talked of retiring but has he made it official. Would the team drop him even if he doesnt volunteeringly go. I could be wrong but I dont see them dropping Rosberg.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2012
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  15. Pete.Sampras.

    Pete.Sampras. Semi-Pro

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    Well, you need a great car to win the championship. Alonso always said that the car is at least 70% of your chances. But Schumacher proved himself in inferior cars and so did Vettel in a few races (not over the course of a whole season, but Vettel did not have as many chances yet).

    The Williams was a better car in '94 and '95 when Schumacher won his first titles. Some of Schumacher's Ferrari titles were very close ones as well. There were one or two years when it was indeed easy for him, but "most of his career" seems a bit too much imo ;-)

    Vettel seems to do better than his teammates in a great car, but this season showed that he does not always handle a tough situation as well as you would expect. He is still young though. Maybe it will be different in a few years, with more experience. Who knows.

    Anyway, right now Alonso is the best...
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
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  16. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    I voted for Vettel because He has been solid with his car being worse than Ferrari for most of time, He isn't lucky as Alonso, Alonso won several points due to luck.

    Career wise, I'd still rate Alonso the best of them all, with Vettel being slightly behind, Vettel is faster driver but still makes a little more mistakes than Alonso, but Vettel is a lot more inexperienced as well.

    PS- Michael Schumacher's come back because of money has been very poor and very unlucky as well. The König needs to retire for sure, plus F1 nowadays with DRS/KERS suck.
     
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  17. Pete.Sampras.

    Pete.Sampras. Semi-Pro

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    The Red Bull has been a better car throughout the entire season than the Ferrari.

    I guess you're just comparing the two drivers as the poll says because there would be a lot more drivers to mention...

    Schumacher is a billionaire and certainly did not return for any money. If you follow the F1 closely like I do (I'm a sports journalist) you will know that Schumacher is better this year than in both years before and still very competitive. The only reason why he does not have as many points as Rosberg is because technical problems on his car forced him to retire in five races. The oher two "dnf" were his own fault though. He's probably not as good as he was in his prime, but he's still among the best.

    Oh, it seems I'm starting to defend Schumacher for some reason. This is an Alonso/Vettel thread though. Sorry for that. I'm off now ;-)
     
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  18. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Well Rosberg won a race this year. Is there any race Michael could have won this year even without DNFs. I just looked up some info online and it seems Schumacher is not retiring at the end of this year, atleast not volunteeringly. That case the only way I could see Lewis joining Mercedes (if he even wants to which I am far from convinced) is if they dump Schumacher on their own accord in favor of Hamilton. I dont think Rosberg is going anywhere anytime soon.

    Red Bull isnt as dominant as the last 2 years but I havent heard anyone suggest it is slower than Ferrari this year. Alonso in fact has said he thinks his car is only the 4th or 5th fastest this year, not only slower than Red Bull and McLaren as most feel, but slower than Lotus and/or Mercedes as well (though that could be trying to make himself look good).
     
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  19. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    I'm glad you are a sport journalist, because I do follow F1 and have been since 1986 as far as I can remember.

    Schumacher Is nowhere near his best, I'd say he is around 40% or lower than his best. He had a lot of investments when the stock marketing in 2008 had that big down side He lost a lot of money, I don't know details about it, since you're in the business you should know about it.

    Of course I'm comparing only Vettel and Alonso, that is the poll.
     
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  20. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    This year has been (like in 2004-2007) has been a competition of tires and tire management, those cars that are less efficient lose.
     
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  21. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    No he wasn't... not only did his car have the #1 on it, he also got the same opportunities as Hamilton - he just famously spat the dummy and threw his toys out the cot when he realised that not being in a completely Alonso-centric operation he would have to put a little more effort into stuff.

    Likewise, the Mike Coughlan scandal also put him on the back foot when it was revealed Alonso was actively complicit in using information on Ferrari's set-up (from Nigel Stepney) - when he knew he shouldn't have. He was just lucky as hell they offered the drivers an amnesty to say what they knew. In another situation he would have been banned along with Coughlan, (test driver) Pedro De La Rosa and others. Hamilton kept his head down and nose out of the business (publicly at least) and Ron Dennis was probably just repaying the loyalty of Hamilton imo.

    Alonso also seemed to the instigator of Renault getting into crap over their having other teams' technical info. He had a lot of insider knowledge on Renault having just come from them and, mysteriously, not long after he went to McLaren, stories about Flavio Briatore and Renault's technical rule-bending started surfacing.

    Clutter aside, for natural pace and overall consistency Alonso rules the F1 grid in the average to above-average competitive teams. Hamilton is lightning quick when he is, but has also had plenty of times when he's been rather meek - not to mention the patches of error prone driving he had also. Kimi would be right up there too but he seems to swing between blind brilliance and not giving a ****.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
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  22. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Alonso. Doing more with inferior equipment. Vettel is very good though. If you were starting a team you would do well with either.

    If Hamilton makes the jump to Mercedes as rumored (old Mike needs to hang it up for good), there are going to be a ton of changes. Let the Silly Season begin.

    OT: anyone who hasn't should watch the 'Senna' documentary. Excellent.
     
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  23. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    I wouldn't doubt, just think about, Hamilton has been sponsored and helped by Ron Dennis since He was a kid, He is almost like a son to Ron Dennis. Ron as sneaky as He is I would not doubt if they gave Hamilton a slightly more powerful engine since the beginning, this is my opinion, now, towards the end of that season, Mclaren clearly sabotaged Alonso and favored Hamilton, just look at the Hungarian Fiasco in which unfairly had FIA's intervention and unfairly punished Alonso. Mclaren has always been sneaky and cheated with the consensus of FIA.

    Honestly, Hamilton is a poor man's Mansell, there was a championship He lost to Kimi having so many points difference with only 3 races to go, pressure came down on him, He lost it. He is not in the same league as Vettel and Alonso, if Kimi gave a damn, when He is on, he is one of the best, but He is too unlucky.

    Lastly, no top driver wants to share anything, that's how it is supposed to be, if a driver is a top driver they need to have it all working for them, they earned it, so Alonso and Vettel are better than their team mates so they need to be prioritized.
     
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  24. Pete.Sampras.

    Pete.Sampras. Semi-Pro

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    The latest news, although not officially confirmed by McLaren, is that Lewis stays in the british team. I guess if Schumacher wants to continue, he will.

    Rosberg won a GP, but in this race, Schumacher was just 4-5 seconds behind him. Then he went to the pit and lost a tyre shortly after he was back on the track again. A few seconds in the first half of a race is nothing in the modern F1 with all the problems that, for example, tires can cause. MSC could have had a chance. Rosberg was strong in this race though. He probably would have won anyway, but sadly, we will never know ;-)
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
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  25. Vcore89

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    Fernando Alonso is the best F1 driver imo with his current stop-gap setup.:cool:
     
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  26. Pete.Sampras.

    Pete.Sampras. Semi-Pro

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    I started in '93. Looks like you have a headstart :p

    All we can tell is that Schumacher is not as great as he once was. But a lot of teams, drivers and experts still consider him one of the best. Of course there are always those who critisize (just look at Federer). Once Mercedes has a winning car again, we'll see what Schumacher does compared to Rosberg (a teammate is the only true comparison).

    This year Schumacher was ahead of Rosberg, who is considered one of the best these days, many times and MSC was very unfortunate with all the problems on his car. In the first race he was in third position when his gearbox failed for example and he was ahead of or at least close to Rosberg in other "MSC, dnf" races as well (also, see my post above)... and that pole position in Monaco was oustanding. And in the last races he was ahead of Rosberg most of the time, even in qualifying where MSC leads 8-6. He drives better now than he did two seasons ago. I think that says something...

    I have never heard of any big financial loss for Schumacher and even google did not show any results. Even if it was true and he lost half of his money, 500 millions are still more than enough to never do anything for money in your life. I'd say it is a fact that he did not return for money.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
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  27. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    I miss Senna.
     
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  28. finalfantasy7

    finalfantasy7 Semi-Pro

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    chris you around when senna/prost?

    poll should be who's sexier michael/ralph???, anyone see pictures of ralph when he was go karting/ michael was slightly looking after him, proper porky ralph was
     
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  29. chrischris

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    Nope, but saw the movie called Senna. Thats why.
     
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  30. Pete.Sampras.

    Pete.Sampras. Semi-Pro

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    You can't rely on any info these days. Today it seems that Hamilton is going to Mercedes. Yesterday McLaren said that he will most likely stay in their team. I wonder what's true. But for some reason, I guess Hamilton will go to Mercedes...

    Just for those who are interested. I'm sorry for this off-topic post.
     
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  31. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    I'm interested, in Schumacher's retirement, it just hurts to see him on vacation in F1.
     
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  32. Pete.Sampras.

    Pete.Sampras. Semi-Pro

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    I would tell him to stop now if I were his manager, but I have no idea what he will do now.

    Sauber seems to be an option but not a "winning" one. And even if Ferrari would take Schumacher for Massa, he would be in a team with a prime Alonso who is Ferrari's new leader.

    But I guess driving a F1 car is a lot of fun and it's hard to let go. If Schumacher still enjoys it and teams want him...
     
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  33. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    He is already old enough, plus with the concussions He had racing motorcycles and the loss of reflexes it is time to hang up the gloves. Schumacher is the best there ever was, but his come back was disastrous, only made his image look worse, F1 nowadays isn't much about the driver but all other variables, I only watch because I still have a hope He could win one race to have as much as Senna and Prost together, but it won't happen.
     
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  34. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    Anybody still thinking Alonso is faster?

    Overall Alonso is a little better than Vettel, but Vettel is faster.

    Vettel now isn't making any mistakes like before, maturity is finding him, great races as of late, hence almost another title, he really deserves it.
     
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  35. PSNELKE

    PSNELKE Legend

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    Definately.
    Vettel got a freakin Jet under his butt, whilst Alonsos Ferrari sucks balls to say the least.
     
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  36. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    My best F1 drivers in order would be:

    1. Alonso
    2. Vettel
    3. Raikonnen
    4. Hamilton
    5. Rosberg
    6. Button

    Everyone else sucks so I wont bother going down from there, lol (that includes grandpa Schumacher btw). I could see some arguing Vettel as best driver, but this year atleast I think he definitely only came out ahead of Alonso due to the faster car.
     
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  37. Fedfer

    Fedfer Rookie

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    I think that Alonso is still the best driver...followed by Vettel , Raikkonen and Hamilton
     
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  38. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Same as me. I do think the last 2 years Vettel was the best driver though, and even this year I still think he is the 2nd best. So to people like Peters who ask if I have changed my mind on anything, not really. I definitely stand by all my past opinions.

    I know some Hamilton homers say he is the best or atleast better than Vettel yet he struggles to stay ahead of Button in the same car, and in fact last year was well beaten by Button in points. Sorry he is not the best, if he had Alonso or Vettel as a teammate naturally he would be well behind in points, if someone like Button was leading him in season points at times each of their 3 season together, and did the entire season last year, unless someone is going to seriously argue Button is better than either of them, lol! On his day he can be faster than anyone but he is erratic as heck and makes tons of driving errors and car management errors.
     
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  39. Gonzalito17

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    What happened to Robert Kubica?
     
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  40. AlfaAce

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    Juan Manuel Fangio. G.O.A.T.!!!
     
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  41. BauerAlmeida

    BauerAlmeida Semi-Pro

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    LEGEND;)

    Nowdays I would say Alonso maybe a bit over Vettel.

    But I expected more from him around 2005/2006. He underachieved.
     
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  42. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Yes even without having the best car any year of his career arguably Alonso still could have won 5 World Drivers titles by now. 2007, 2010, 2012 for sure were opportunities (2012 might still happen but hugely unlikely now) squandered. Even though he might be the best driver today, he still hasnt lived up to this potential I dont think. When he won his first 2 World drivers titles so young he beat drivers the caliber of Raikkonnen and Schumacher (still close to his best then) when they had faster cars than him. Now he cant even beat Vettel who is not yet as good as prime Schumacher or mid 2000s Raikonnen, if Vettel has a faster car.
     
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  43. SempreSami

    SempreSami Hall of Fame

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    That Alonso was even in contention going into the final race of the season is a remarkable achievement given how much of an advantage Vettel had in terms of their cars. If he'd been a bit luckier at Spa, who knows what might have happened?
     
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  44. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    Vettel wins it, another remarkable come back from dead last.

    Vettel is finally in his prime, I don't think Alonso is any better than vettel anymore, I thought until 4-5 races ago, but at the end he came back and won it, he could have lost it, but showed he has improved a lot.

    Overall Vettel is better than Alonso imo now, has won more titles as well and under severe pressure he showed what a prodigy he is.

    Hulkenberg is another one, if he gets a better car like a Mclaren he can win many titles, I'd love to see Nico VS Vettel.
     
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  45. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    The poll is about who is faster not who is better overall, Vettel has proven He is great (maybe greater than Alonso), Vettel has won with Toro Rosso when it was a crappy car, with red Bull before it was great... and of course when it's great, He is up to the car, He wins the titles, so after this championship Vettel has surpassed Alonso in titles and is on the same level of capability, so to me Vettel is a better drive overall and for sure faster.

    Grandpa Schumacher never had anything going right from him nor a decent car nor motivation level, he was back because of money and fun, nothing else.

    Schumacher is the best there ever was- the end.
     
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  46. TERRASTAR18

    TERRASTAR18 Hall of Fame

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    Hamiliton is at least 1a to Alonso's 1. vettel has the best car/best engineer/most reliable team/team leader, while hamilton works for a carousel of engineers with the bright idea of starting from scratch each year instead of developing the car in a progression/ team that believes in equal treatment/ favored button. button finished ahead of hamilton because he had a top 10 car and that's where he kept it. ham took the same car which was setup for button and was competiting for race wins and pushing it to the limit hence why he had so much crashes because he was embarassing massa who didn't want to lose to a slower car. vettel is very overrated even his own boss horner shows it by his actions. he always talks abbout vettel but keeps using worthless stats like wins and wdc all that shows is vettel has a better car. he never mentions any skills like overtaking or drive control. he is scared ham will embarass his guy-
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/mar/14/red-bull-christian-horner-f1

    he beat alonso in similar equipment and no f1 expert rates kimi over lewis....
     
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  47. TERRASTAR18

    TERRASTAR18 Hall of Fame

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    that still doesn't equal better. he has the best car(most reliable on the grid). he won 1 race in a toro rosso in the wet because ferrari and ham messed up their race setups and heikki sucks. with the best car lastr year he struggled to close out the title and only won because webber choked. tome, its alonso and ham.
     
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  48. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    no F1 expert rates Hamilton over Vettel right now either but you do. Like you I form my own opinions, not the experts one. Raikkonen ended up above Hamilton in the points with what was clearly a slower car. He did this after years out of the sport too. For me that makes him better. Hamilton is only best or second best if you only go by speed and nothing else, he makes tons of mistakes which are largely driving error, and his car management is poor.

    As for your array of excuses for Hamilton, the fact is in his 3 years together with Button in McLaren, Button collected more total points over those 3 years than Hamilton, even if Hamilton ended up narrowly in front 2 of the 3, and Button had a top 3 (2nd place last year) for the year while Hamilton couldnt manage that any of the last 3 years. I am not sure who has more race wins in that time combined, but fact is Hamilton has been matched or even bested by Button over the overall 3 year period in the same team and essentialy with the same car. If anything I was generous to rate him 2 spots above Button.

    He is rated so highly by people because he is British, he is black in a predominantly white sport, because his feud with Alonso allowed him to write some autobiographies and gain attention, and because a couple years ago he was the youngest, all those novelties together. Although interest in him has faded greatly now that someone younger than him is way better (Vettel), and since his results are no longer keeping up. Things dont look any brighter for him with his dumb decision to move to Mercedes, who currently are nowhere near the best car, and much slower than McLaren in fact, and show no signs of drastic improvement anytime soon. I dont know what he was smoking when he made that choice but I expect it wont be long before he is regretting it. Also will be interesting to see if he even is able to best Rosberg or not. Rosberg is faster than alot of people think, he would have alot of race wins in a faster car. It wouldnt surprise me if Hamilton yet again finds himself unexpectedly bested by a teammate in now an even slower car, and if that happens his stock will drop even further than it already has.
     
    #48
  49. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    You are from Germany right? Just a wild guess.
     
    #49
  50. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,324
    Nope, although my grandparents are.:)
     
    #50

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