Best French open player of the open era

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by kragster, Mar 13, 2012.

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Best French open player of the open era

  1. Borg

    31 vote(s)
    33.7%
  2. Nadal

    56 vote(s)
    60.9%
  3. Kuerten

    2 vote(s)
    2.2%
  4. Wilander

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Lendl

    3 vote(s)
    3.3%
  1. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    Not that many choices but just wanted to gauge the forum sentiment.


    Edit: I already know where this poll is heading.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
    #1
  2. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    Borg or Nadal



    Maybe Keurten lendl and wilander about here




    Everyone else starts about here
     
    #2
  3. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Borg.

    10Bjorns
     
    #3
  4. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    I cast my vote to Federer. Because this is a poll and he must win it.
     
    #4
  5. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    that honor goes to "The Rocket" Rod Laver.
     
    #5
  6. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Erm, surely this is a 2 choice poll - Borg or nadal. The others don't come close - though Wilander like Nadal won at his first attempt and was even younger at only 17, but overall he doesn't come close to Nadal.
     
    #6
  7. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    It's got to be Nadal, in my opinion.

    Nadal is 45-1 (6 titles), Borg 49-2 (6 titles), Wilander 47-9 (3 titles), Lendl 53-12 (3 titles) and Kuerten 36-8 (3 titles).
     
    #7
  8. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Borg for best French Open player. Best clay court player would be Nadal.

    Nadal just needs 1 more RG and he is better than Borg at the French.
     
    #8
  9. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Borg no question. Nadal played in a weak clay era.
     
    #9
  10. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Rafael Nadal
    2005: CHAMPION
    2006: CHAMPION
    2007: CHAMPION
    2008: CHAMPION

    2009: Round of 16 Loser
    2010: CHAMPION
    2011: CHAMPION


    Bjorn Borg
    1973: Round of 16 Loser
    1974: CHAMPION
    1975: CHAMPION

    1976: Quarter Final Loser
    1977: DID NOT PLAY
    1978: CHAMPION
    1979: CHAMPION
    1980: CHAMPION
    1981: CHAMPION


    Mats Wilander
    1982: CHAMPION
    1983: Runner-up
    1984: Semi Final Loser
    1985: CHAMPION
    1986: Round of 32 Loser
    1987: Runner-up
    1988: CHAMPION
    1989: Quarter Final Loser
    1990: DID NOT PLAY
    1991: Round of 64 Loser
    1992: DID NOT PLAY
    1993: DID NOT PLAY
    1994: Round of 128 Loser
    1995: Round of 64 Loser
    1996: Round of 64 Loser

    Ivan Lendl
    1978: Round of 128 Loser
    1979: Round of 16 Loser
    1980: Round of 32 Loser
    1981: Runner-up
    1982: Round of 16 Loser
    1983: Quarter Final Loser
    1984: CHAMPION
    1985: Runner-up
    1986: CHAMPION
    1987: CHAMPION

    1988: Quarter Final Loser
    1989: Round of 16 Loser
    1990: DID NOT PLAY
    1991: DID NOT PLAY
    1992: Round of 64 Loser
    1993: Round of 128 Loser
    1994: Round of 128 Loser

    Gustavo Kuerten
    1996: Round of 128 Loser
    1997: CHAMPION
    1998: Round of 64 Loser
    1999: Quarter Final Loser
    2000: CHAMPION
    2001: CHAMPION

    2002: Round of 16 Loser
    2003: Round of 16 Loser
    2004: Quarter Final Loser
    2005: Round of 128 Loser
    2006: DID NOT PLAY
    2007: DID NOT PLAY
    2008: Round of 128 Loser
     
    #10
  11. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    ^^^ There we go. Ever since Borg and Nadal won their first FO, they won in a 4/2 distribution. But in Borg's loss it was a QF, while Nadal was 4th round. Therefore Borg > Nadal.
     
    #11
  12. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nadal won his first French Open, though. Borg didn't.
     
    #12
  13. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Yeah but Borg was only 17 when he lost. If Nadal played at that age he would have lost too.
     
    #13
  14. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    Why does Nadal need 1 more RG to be better than Borg at the FO but Fed is leading Sampras 3:1 in the USO poll when both have the same number of slams?

    Nadal has a higher winning % than Borg at the FO and has never been stretched to 5 sets in his 6 FO finals.
     
    #14
  15. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Not being stretched to 5 sets is meaningless if you've already lost in 4.
     
    #15
  16. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    The Father, The Son, and the Holy Rocket!
     
    #16
  17. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    Yannick Noah.....because he was French. All other years and champions it was just another tournamnet.

    The last 7 years or so its been pretty much the Spanish Open.
     
    #17
  18. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Adriano Panatta twice beat Borg in 4 sets at the French Open, the only times Borg lost there. Borg also had to go 5 sets in 2 French Open finals (1974 against Orantes and 1981 against Lendl).
     
    #18
  19. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Thanks for making my case. Borg lost to a FO champion. Nadal lost to a slamless wonder. Case closed. Borg > Nadal. Additionally Nadal's stats are inflated because he started playing at a much later age than Borg.
     
    #19
  20. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    LOL. Keep clutching those straws ;)
     
    #20
  21. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Don't need to. It's quite clear. Borg > Nadal.
     
    #21
  22. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    It's not clear at all. Nadal's winning percentages at the French Open and on clay in general are superior to Borg's. Nadal has also beaten Federer 5 times at the French Open.
     
    #22
  23. lgbalfa

    lgbalfa Professional

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    my vote goes to thomas muster.
     
    #23
  24. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I really wish I could agree with you. Thomas was amazing when winning there in 1995, and looked very good in 1990 until he blew his semi final, but there's no question that Muster underachieved at the French Open considerably, and running into Courier a couple of times and serve and volleyers like Rafter and Stich didn't help.
     
    #24
  25. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    It's actually quite clear. Nadal's stats are simply inflated due to playing clay nobodies other than Federer. Borg played a much harder field and lost only to a FO champion. Nadal lost to Soderling. Pathetic. Borg > Nadal.
     
    #25
  26. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    But obviously Nadal plays in a weak era right? If Federer did so did Nadal.
     
    #26
  27. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    Save your breath, you should know better by now :)
     
    #27
  28. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    I would have really enjoyed seeing Muster in the final against Agassi. I think it would have been one spectacular final, albeit only if Agassi could have his hair in place :)
     
    #28
  29. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    While the argument does hold water, you can't really base that argument for determining the best FO player ever. Nadal has the tools to succeed on clay and it appears that he is at home on clay just as fish are in water.

    It is interesting though to hear Nadal fans(Not calling Muster a Nadal fan) say that Federer is only a product of a weak era when a majority of Nadal's achievements are against Federer. Can't exactly say that Nadal is an amazing FO player and likely the best that ever set foot at RG and then chastise Federer for not being able to beat the best clay court player of all time.
     
    #29
  30. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Well this thread was initiated by a *********, so you kind of have to speak in language they will comprehend.
     
    #30
  31. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I can't help it :)
     
    #31
  32. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    Lol, but you should know that the one thing a troll wants most is attention. Taking that away is the best way to annoy a troll. Someone else in another thread spent 6 pages arguing with bullzilla! Nothing positive ever comes from arguing with a troll.
     
    #32
  33. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Funny how the label of 'troll' is so liberally thrown about by tards themselves. The hypocrisy is quite ripe.
     
    #33
  34. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    There are a lot of stats that would probably prove it, but this one knocks me out of my shoes: Borg conceded 8 sets en route to winning his first French Open in 1974, but Nadal conceded just 7 sets in 4 years between 2005 and 2008.

    Borg was perhaps spared losing a few more in fact due to the first two rounds of '74 being best of 3 sets, having lost his opening set in the first round 6-4 to Jean-Fran├žois Caujolle.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_French_Open_-_Men's_Singles#Section_6

    In fact, in his 6 winning years Borg conceded 14 sets in total, while Nadal conceded 10 from his.

    If I was to include their losses things would be even more in Nadals favour since it would become 20 sets to 13.

    [EDIT]

    Oh yeah, forgot to add, my pick is Nadal. In case I wasn't obvious enough :lol:
     
    #34
  35. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Wait a second wait a second. If you say Borg lost 8 sets in winning one FO, and 14 sets for all 6 FO, then doesn't that mean Borg only lost 6 sets for the remaining 5 FO??????!!!! That's better than Nadal's 7 sets lost for 4 FO's.
     
    #35
  36. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    It's open to interpretation :)
     
    #36
  37. celoft

    celoft Guest

    Borg.

    He only lost to a FO champ(Panatta twice). Soderling never won the FO.

    Is Soderling still active?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2012
    #37
  38. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Rafael Nadal
    2005 French Open - Rafael Nadal
    R128: Rafael Nadal def. Lars Burgsmuller (6-1, 7-6, 6-1)
    R64: Rafael Nadal def. Xavier Malisse (6-2, 6-2, 6-4)
    R32: Rafael Nadal def. Richard Gasquet (6-4, 6-3, 6-2)
    R16: Rafael Nadal def. Sebastien Grosjean (6-4, 3-6, 6-0, 6-3)
    QF: Rafael Nadal def. David Ferrer (7-5, 6-2, 6-0)
    SF: Rafael Nadal def. Roger Federer (6-3, 4-6, 6-4, 6-3)
    F: Rafael Nadal def. Mariano Puerta (6-7, 6-3, 6-1, 7-5)

    2006 French Open - Rafael Nadal
    R128: Rafael Nadal def. Robin Soderling (6-2, 7-5, 6-1)
    R64: Rafael Nadal def. Kevin Kim (6-2, 6-1, 6-4)
    R32: Rafael Nadal def. Paul-Henri Mathieu (5-7, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4)
    R16: Rafael Nadal def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-2, 5-7, 6-4, 6-2)
    QF: Rafael Nadal def. Novak Djokovic (6-4, 6-4 ret.)
    SF: Rafael Nadal def. Ivan Ljubicic (6-4, 6-2, 7-6)
    F: Rafael Nadal def. Roger Federer (1-6, 6-1, 6-4, 7-6)

    2007 French Open - Rafael Nadal
    R128: Rafael Nadal def. Juan Martin del Potro (7-5, 6-3, 6-2)
    R64: Rafael Nadal def. Flavio Cipolla (6-2, 6-1, 6-4)
    R32: Rafael Nadal def. Albert Montanes (6-1, 6-3, 6-2)
    R16: Rafael Nadal def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-3, 6-1, 7-6)
    QF: Rafael Nadal def. Carlos Moya (6-4, 6-3, 6-0)
    SF: Rafael Nadal def. Novak Djokovic (7-5, 6-4, 6-2)
    F: Rafael Nadal def. Roger Federer (6-3, 4-6, 6-3, 6-4)

    2008 French Open - Rafael Nadal
    R128: Rafael Nadal def. Thomaz Bellucci (7-5, 6-3, 6-1)
    R64: Rafael Nadal def. Nicolas Devilder (6-4, 6-0, 6-1)
    R32: Rafael Nadal def. Jarkko Nieminen (6-1, 6-3, 6-1)
    R16: Rafael Nadal def. Fernando Verdasco (6-1, 6-0, 6-2)
    QF: Rafael Nadal def. Nicolas Almagro (6-1, 6-1, 6-1)
    SF: Rafael Nadal def. Novak Djokovic (6-4, 6-2, 7-6)
    F: Rafael Nadal def. Roger Federer (6-1, 6-3, 6-0)


    2009 French Open - Rafael Nadal
    R128: Rafael Nadal def. Marcos Daniel (7-5, 6-4, 6-3)
    R64: Rafael Nadal def. Teymuraz Gabashvili (6-1, 6-4, 6-2)
    R32: Rafael Nadal def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-1, 6-3, 6-1)
    R16: Robin Soderling def. Rafael Nadal (6-2, 6-7, 6-4, 7-6)

    2010 French Open - Rafael Nadal
    R128: Rafael Nadal def. Gianni Mina (6-2, 6-2, 6-2)
    R64: Rafael Nadal def. Horacio Zeballos (6-2, 6-2, 6-3)
    R32: Rafael Nadal def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-3, 6-4, 6-3)
    R16: Rafael Nadal def. Thomaz Bellucci (6-2, 7-5, 6-4)
    QF: Rafael Nadal def. Nicolas Almagro (7-6, 7-6, 6-4)
    SF: Rafael Nadal def. Jurgen Melzer (6-2, 6-3, 7-6)
    F: Rafael Nadal def. Robin Soderling (6-4, 6-2, 6-4)

    2011 French Open - Rafael Nadal
    R128: Rafael Nadal def. John Isner (6-4, 6-7, 6-7, 6-2, 6-4)
    R64: Rafael Nadal def. Pablo Andujar (7-5, 6-3, 7-6)
    R32: Rafael Nadal def. Antonio Veic (6-1, 6-3, 6-0)
    R16: Rafael Nadal def. Ivan Ljubicic (7-5, 6-3, 6-3)
    QF: Rafael Nadal def. Robin Soderling (6-4, 6-1, 7-6)
    SF: Rafael Nadal def. Andy Murray (6-4, 7-5, 6-4)
    F: Rafael Nadal def. Roger Federer (7-5, 7-6, 5-7, 6-1)



    Bjorn Borg
    1973 French Open - Bjorn Borg
    R128: Bjorn Borg def. Cliff Richey (6-2, 6-3)
    R64: Bjorn Borg def. Pierre Barthes (3-6, 6-1, 8-6)
    R32: Bjorn Borg def. Dick Stockton (6-7, 7-5, 6-2, 7-6)
    R16: Adriano Panatta def. Bjorn Borg (7-6, 2-6, 7-5, 7-6)

    1974 French Open - Bjorn Borg
    R128: Bjorn Borg def. Jean-Francois Caujolle (4-6, 6-0, 6-4)
    R64: Bjorn Borg def. Toma Ovici (6-1, 6-1)
    R32: Bjorn Borg def. Jean-Loup Rouyer (6-4, 6-2, 6-0)
    R16: Bjorn Borg def. Erik Van Dillen (0-6, 6-3, 6-3, 5-7, 6-3)
    QF: Bjorn Borg def. Raul Ramirez (6-2, 5-7, 4-6, 6-2, 6-3)
    SF: Bjorn Borg def. Harold Solomon (6-4, 2-6, 6-2, 6-1)
    F: Bjorn Borg def. Manuel Orantes (2-6, 6-7, 6-0, 6-1, 6-1)

    1975 French Open - Bjorn Borg
    R128: Bjorn Borg def. Norman Holmes (6-2, 6-3)
    R64: Bjorn Borg def. Peter Szoke (6-1, 6-1)
    R32: Bjorn Borg def. Jiri Hrebec (6-1, 6-1, 6-1)
    R16: Bjorn Borg def. Stan Smith (6-2, 6-3, 6-0)
    QF: Bjorn Borg def. Harold Solomon (6-1, 7-5, 6-4)
    SF: Bjorn Borg def. Adriano Panatta (6-4, 1-6, 7-5, 6-4)
    F: Bjorn Borg def. Guillermo Vilas (6-2, 6-3, 6-4)


    1976 French Open - Bjorn Borg
    R128: Bjorn Borg def. Dominique Bedel (0-6, 6-0, 6-4, 7-5)
    R64: Bjorn Borg def. Hans Kary (6-1, 6-1, 6-2)
    R32: Bjorn Borg def. Antonio Zugarelli (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    R16: Bjorn Borg def. Francois Jauffret (6-4, 6-2, 3-6, 4-6, 10-8 )
    QF: Adriano Panatta def. Bjorn Borg (6-3, 6-3, 2-6, 7-6)

    1978 French Open - Bjorn Borg
    R128: Bjorn Borg def. Eric Deblicker (6-1, 6-1, 6-1)
    R64: Bjorn Borg def. Rick F a g e l (6-0, 6-1, 6-0)
    R32: Bjorn Borg def. Paolo Bertolucci (6-0, 6-2, 6-2)
    R16: Bjorn Borg def. Roscoe Tanner (6-2, 6-4, 7-6)
    QF: Bjorn Borg def. Raul Ramirez (6-3, 6-3, 6-0)
    SF: Bjorn Borg def. Corrado Barazzutti (6-0, 6-1, 6-0)
    F: Bjorn Borg def. Guillermo Vilas (6-1, 6-1, 6-3)

    1979 French Open - Bjorn Borg
    R128: Bjorn Borg def. Tomas Smid (6-1, 5-7, 6-4, 6-4)
    R64: Bjorn Borg def. Tom Gullikson (6-3, 7-6, 5-7, 6-4)
    R32: Bjorn Borg def. Raymond Moore (6-3, 6-1, 6-0)
    R16: Bjorn Borg def. Gilles Moretton (7-5, 6-4, 6-2)
    QF: Bjorn Borg def. Hans Gildemeister (6-4, 6-1, 7-5)
    SF: Bjorn Borg def. Vitas Gerulaitis (6-2, 6-1, 6-0)
    F: Bjorn Borg def. Victor Pecci (6-3, 6-1, 6-7, 6-4)

    1980 French Open - Bjorn Borg
    R128: Bjorn Borg def. Alvaro Fillol (6-3, 6-1, 6-4)
    R64: Bjorn Borg def. Andres Gomez (6-2, 6-2, 6-1)
    R32: Bjorn Borg def. Pascal Portes (6-3, 6-0, 6-1)
    R16: Bjorn Borg def. Balazs Taroczy (6-2, 6-2, 6-0)
    QF: Bjorn Borg def. Corrado Barazzutti (6-0, 6-3, 6-3)
    SF: Bjorn Borg def. Harold Solomon (6-2, 6-2, 6-0)
    F: Bjorn Borg def. Vitas Gerulaitis (6-4, 6-1, 6-2)

    1981 French Open - Bjorn Borg
    R128: Bjorn Borg def. Jose Lopez-Maeso (6-2, 6-2, 6-2)
    R64: Bjorn Borg def. Cassio Motta (6-1, 7-5, 6-0)
    R32: Bjorn Borg def. Paul Torre (6-2, 6-1, 6-2)
    R16: Bjorn Borg def. Terry Moor (6-0, 6-0, 6-1)
    QF: Bjorn Borg def. Balazs Taroczy (6-3, 6-3, 6-2)
    SF: Bjorn Borg def. Victor Pecci (6-4, 6-4, 7-5)
    F: Bjorn Borg def. Ivan Lendl (6-1, 4-6, 6-2, 3-6, 6-1)
     
    #38
  39. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    He's had mono. Hasn't played since July 2011, when he won Bastad in dominant fashion.
     
    #39
  40. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    That proves Nadal would never have won W2008 if Fed didn't have mono in the beginning of the year.
     
    #40
  41. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    LOL. Dream on :)
     
    #41
  42. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Exactly, he showed he could do it in 2007.
     
    #42
  43. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    But chose to lose instead.
     
    #43
  44. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    LOLLLLLLLLLLLL, Game set and match as Fed said at Wimby 2007. :)
     
    #44
  45. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Don't need to, it's quite clear. We saw what mono did to Ancic and now Sod.
     
    #45
  46. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    You know damn well that Federer's mono was nowhere near as bad a strain as Soderling's or Ancic's.
     
    #46
  47. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Maybe, maybe not. You don't have any of their doctor's reports. All I know is Courier said Fed's mono cost him tons of practice time. Given how Fed's game is built on precision that loss of practice would have cost him dearly against someone as good as Nadal.
     
    #47
  48. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    Nadal.


    .
     
    #48
  49. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,098
    True, but as DFTW pointed out it did cost him practice time. If Nadal fans want to discredit Federer's FO then you sure need to put asterisks next to WIM 08 and AO 09.
     
    #49
  50. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,114
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    From me, there has been no discrediting of Federer's 2009 French Open win nor are there any asteriks against Nadal's majors.
     
    #50

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