Best hard court player of 2009.

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by grafselesfan, Dec 1, 2009.

?

Who was the overall best hard court player of 2009

  1. Murray

    5.4%
  2. Nadal

    32.4%
  3. Del Potro

    31.1%
  4. Djokovic

    8.1%
  5. Federer

    17.6%
  6. Davydenko

    2.7%
  7. other

    2.7%
  1. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,594
    I redid this poll as there was too much griping back and forth over who was and wasnt included so I included every plausible option. Vote for who you believe was the best hard court player for the year 2009.
     
    #1
  2. GustafsonFanatic

    GustafsonFanatic Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    582
    If you included Djokovic,Murray and Davydenko, where are Roddick and Verdasco?
     
    #2
  3. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,594
    Since I am not going to go the full extent of the ridiculous and even include guys who didnt reach a single Slam or Masters final on hard courts for the year now on a poll about "the best" hard court player of the year. What would be next if I include Roddick and Verdasco, I should also include Tsonga and Monfils, then I should also include Gonzalez, Soderling, and Simon....until we are then including Donald Young. :) The 6 on the poll are the only guys who even reached a Masters final on hard courts this year (other than Monfils in Paris which was obviously an extreme singular result of his overall year on hard courts). That is enough.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
    #3
  4. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Messages:
    15,714
    Location:
    VA Beach
    Still Nadal. Still had the most consistent year on HC in my opinion. Didn't have a single bad loss rankings-wise on HC this year. And I don't weigh his YEC result heavily, as I believe he wasn't giving his best effort mentally out there and preserving himself for the start of next year, instead of killing himself for the YEC.
     
    #4
  5. Thomas Blake and Mun
     
    #5
  6. GustafsonFanatic

    GustafsonFanatic Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    582
    I just felt like trolling. It's fun sometimes.
     
    #6
  7. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,594
    Trying to fit in with the TW family. :) Good for you.
     
    #7
  8. GustafsonFanatic

    GustafsonFanatic Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    582
    I voted for Nadal.

    btw GSF, I could never vote in your other thread. I was utterly appalled by the blatant underrepresentation of annoying, screaming pushers in your previous poll.
     
    #8
  9. jones101

    jones101 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    4,276
    Location:
    Wales
    I picked Nadal because

    * The only one to win a GS & MS on Hardcourt this year.

    * He acumilated the most point in HC this year.

    * Losses (& YEC) aside, I dont think he lost before a QF in any HC event.

    It has been a very even year on HC and could even say DP or Fed are a tie for no 1 along with Nadal, but IMO he is top HC this year.
     
    #9
  10. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    Neither Delpo nor Fed could be considered a tie for #1. Delpo because the USO is the only major title he has won this year (his 2 other titles were very minor), no master shield or YEC. I see Delpo as a very promising player who still has everything to confirm.
    As for Fed, despite his 2 slam finals, he's won only 1 title on hard this year. This is the worst he's done since 2001. If Fed is declining, it's his # of titles on hard court that would be telling that story with the most clarity. Look at that pattern:
    # of tournaments won on hard by Fed:
    2002: 2
    2003: 4
    2004: 7
    2005: 8
    2006: 9
    2007: 6
    2008: 2
    2009: 1
    Steady progression, climax, slight decline, sharp decline.
    The player who has won the most hard court titles this year (and the most master shields:2) is Murray with 5. But of course Murray botched the slams so he wouldn't be a tie either.
    # of hard court titles won this year (among top 10)
    Murray: 5
    Djokovic: 4
    Del Potro, Davydenko, Tsonga: 3
    Nadal: 2
    Federer, Roddick, Verdasco: 1
    Soderling: 0
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
    #10
  11. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,083
    Nadal at the beginning of the year, Murray in the middle, and Del Potro at the end. Therefore -- Federer. Not the best at any point but a factor throughout the year.
     
    #11
  12. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,594
    The best hard court player of 2008 was Djokovic by a long ways. I think 2009 is closer than 2008 but this year it is Nadal.
     
    #12
  13. Rhino

    Rhino Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    7,475
    Location:
    South of London, west of Moscow
    They didn't even win a Masters Series event, plus neither made a hard court slam final...
     
    #13
  14. Rhino

    Rhino Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    7,475
    Location:
    South of London, west of Moscow
    This is very interesting.
    But I still think 2 hard court grand slam finals is no small feat.. no-one else managed that this year.
     
    #14
  15. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    Del Potro at the end? :shock: I guess you missed the fact that Del Potro DID NOT win WTF and that before WTF he lost to Stepanek, Melzer and Vasselin (scratching head :-?)
    The fall was all Djokovic and Davydenko. The beginning was Murray for # of titles and Nadal for importance of titles.
    The summer was 1 big title for Fed, 1 big for Murray and 1 (the biggest one of course) for Delpo.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
    #15
  16. GrafisGOAT

    GrafisGOAT Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    It is Del Potro and Federer. Nadal got lucky at Indian Wells and never should have won there. His only real hard court title was the Australian Open.
     
    #16
  17. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    Definitely. It's not like Federer will ever be a mediocre player and for anyone else it would be a tremendous achievement. It's only within Federer's own career/standards that 1 title seems quite a low point.
     
    #17
  18. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    The leader for # of titles on hard in 2008 was Murray with 5 titles of which 2 masters (+1 slam final) but of course Djokovic's 3 titles for that year were the most impressive: 1 slam, 1 master and WTF! I would still disagree that Djoko's domination was by a landslide just because 3 titles isn't that many no matter how big they are...
     
    #18
  19. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,594
    Fair enough but I still think Djokovic was clearly the best hard court player in 2008. There could be no other choice. He won 1 of the 2 biggest hard court events (and was in the semis of the other), and also won the biggest hard court event after those two (the WTF), and a Masters on top of that. Murray won alot of hard court titles last year but like this year nothing bigger than a regular Masters. Atleast last year Murray made a U.S Open final, this year he has a super disspaointment in the biggest hard court events. I think Djokovic was a more clear best hard court player of 2008 than anyone is this year was my point. I still do feel Nadal is the best hard court player of 2009, but Djokovic last year was even more clearly the best hard court player than anyone this year. You are right landslide would be too strong though.
     
    #19
  20. Cyan

    Cyan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    3,372
    Interesting. At this rate fed wont win any hc titles in 2010.:shock:
     
    #20
  21. dlk

    dlk Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    2,748
    Location:
    Indy
    Went Nadal, but JMDP right behind.
     
    #21
  22. brc444

    brc444 New User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2007
    Messages:
    88
    Still went with Del Potro. As I said in the other thread, I think Del Potro's
    h2h with Nadal 3-1 and Fed 2-1 pulls him ahead.
     
    #22
  23. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    That's a weird logic. In that case I could argue that his htoh vs Murray (0-3 this year) pulls him down. Htoh can bring additional info but I really don't think they supercede winning titles.
     
    #23
  24. brc444

    brc444 New User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2007
    Messages:
    88
    I thought Nadal fans liked to focus on h2h. Del Potro has 3 titles so I am not discounting titles and while you referred to 2 of them as very minor -- I note Washington is a 500 point tournament. Del Potro, Nadal, and Fed had good results so I think h2h comes into play in that case as a deciding factor in who is the better hard court player of 2009. Murray because of his slam results did not seem close to the other 3 so I don't think h2h comes into play then.
     
    #24
  25. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,083
    ?????
    Del Potro won the US Open and got to the finals of the WTF in the last 3rd of the year. That's pretty good.
     
    #25
  26. Ripster

    Ripster Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,238
    I just can't vote Nadal despite him winning a GS and a Masters title on hardcourt. The fact that he was blown away on hardcourts multiple times throughout the year and that he was the worst player at the TMC sways my vote to either Del Potro or Federer.

    However, I guess since he accumulated the most points then objectively one would have to say he is the best.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
    #26
  27. GustafsonFanatic

    GustafsonFanatic Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    582
    Nadal has 5925 and Djokovic has 5900 points on HC in 2009.

    Del Potro has more points than Federer, but so does Murray.

    Pointwise, the HC rankings are:

    Rafa
    Djoko
    DelPo
    Murray
    Fed
     
    #27
  28. anointedone

    anointedone Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Messages:
    4,655
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Nadal easily. Nobody else came even close.
     
    #28
  29. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,083
    5925 to 5900 is pretty close. That's why this is an interesting poll, because there are good rationales for several players.
     
    #29
  30. Ultimatum

    Ultimatum Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    Home of the 2010 Youth Olympic Games
    I think the situation is especially interesting this year, all Top 8 guys performed equally in general with exception of Roddick.

    Fed: 1 MS, 2 GS Final, WTF SF
    Rafa: 1 MS, 1 GS W, WTF RR
    Novak: 1 MS, 1 GS SF, WTF RR
    Murray: 2 MS, 2 GS R16, WTF RR, 2 Standard ATP Titles
    Delpo: 0 MS, 1 GS W, WTF Final, 2 Standard ATP Titles
    Roddick: 0 MS, 1 GS SF, WTF Did not play
    Davydenko: 1 MS, 1 GS QF, WTF W, 1 Standard ATP Title
    Soderling: 0 MS, 1 GS QF, WTF SF

    These are general quickstats. I know there are players who are consistent through MS like Roddick and Djokovic but i wanted to make it quick
     
    #30
  31. Tomaz Bellucci

    Tomaz Bellucci Rookie

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    Sao Paulo, Brasil
    del Potro ten char
     
    #31
  32. Anaconda

    Anaconda Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,885
    Nadal was the best HC player. He did better at the US open than JMDP did at the AO, plus he has a masters shield under his belt from Indian Wells.

    I'm sorry but why would you put Davydenko,Federer,Djokovic, Murray in there. The only 2 candidates are Nadal and JMDP!
     
    #32
  33. Ultimatum

    Ultimatum Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    Home of the 2010 Youth Olympic Games
    Fed: Won 1 MS ( Delpo didnt, Nadal won 1 as well), Reached 2 slam finals ( Delpo won 1 and reached a QF, Nadal won 1 and reached a SF), hence they are almost balanced out in consistency. Also reached WTF SF. ( Nadal did not)

    Murray: 2 MS titles ( More than any other player this year), Below par slam performance.

    Djokovic: 1 MS title ( Also won some 3 ATP 500s) and also consistent through the MS ( reaching all QF and above), reached a QF and SF ( Below par but not too bad).

    Davydenko: 1 MS title, an ATP title, Did not play at AO and reached USO QF
    ( So-so) and most importantly winning the WTF.

    Quite sharp of you to point those 4 out. Soderling and Roddick did not achieve big results in HC this year.
     
    #33
  34. anointedone

    anointedone Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Messages:
    4,655
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    The 3 "other" votes are intriguing to say the least. Who in the heck apart from those 6 could even be remotedly argued as the best hard court player of 2009? Roddick, Soderling, Tsonga, please.
     
    #34
  35. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,301
    I voted for Nadal automatically but I would revise that and go with Delpo. Both have an HC slam. Nadal has a masters title as well while Delpo has an MS final, but Delpo has won 3 HC title whereas Nadal has won 2, plus he has a 3-1 h2h vs. Nadal on HC this year, and a better overall record vs the top 10 on HC. This and the fact that the USO is more prestigous than the AO, and Delpo had a pretty killer draw enroute to the title. Lastly, Del Potro made the MC final, while Nadal lost all three of his matches.

    So it's close, but I'll go with Delpo.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
    #35
  36. clayman2000

    clayman2000 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,849
    Lucky?

    How is beating Del Potro,Roddick, and Murray in 3 days without dropping a set lucky?
     
    #36
  37. Anaconda

    Anaconda Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,885
    Well there should only be two options; Nadal and JMDP. The other options are pointless as you cannot argue there cases.
     
    #37
  38. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,706
    Location:
    U.S
    nalby had 5 MPs against him, from which he escaped
     
    #38
  39. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,706
    Location:
    U.S
    I agree ......
     
    #39
  40. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    17,107
    Location:
    Toronto
    I wanna say Federer but the truth is Nadal is best Hard Court player of 2009 in terms of results. Nadal has won 1 grand slam and 1 master series title on hard. Even though Federer had got to two hard court slam finals and won one ms title. It is not better considering how Nadal played the Aussie open this year.
     
    #40
  41. matchmaker

    matchmaker Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    4,040
    For results: Nadal.
    For play: Delpo.
     
    #41
  42. C++ Primer

    C++ Primer Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    290
    Location:
    bridge engineering
    Nadal > Del Potro
     
    #42
  43. clayman2000

    clayman2000 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,849
    Didnt Rafa hit winners on 3 of them? And I dont believe Nalby hit a UE in those 5.
     
    #43
  44. Telepatic

    Telepatic Legend

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    7,167
    Location:
    Serbia, Belgrade
    I voted for Federer but results show its Nadal being slightly ahead Delpo with 1GS , 1 masters and SF , while Delpo doesnt have masters title and has QF at his second grand slam, though he reached finals in London so that why its "slightly".
     
    #44

Share This Page