Best mens hard court player of 2009

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by grafselesfan, Nov 30, 2009.

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Best mens hard court player of 2009

  1. Nadal

    35.4%
  2. Del Potro

    25.3%
  3. Federer

    32.9%
  4. Davydenko

    6.3%
  1. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    Now that the TMC is concluded I think it is clear Nadal has had been the best mens hard court player of 2009. Who do you think it has been.
     
    #1
  2. BigServer1

    BigServer1 Legend

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    I'd go Nadal, though he's coasting on the fumes of his AO win.

    If DelPo had beaten Davy, he would have gotten my vote.
     
    #2
  3. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal by a very small, small, small margin.
     
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  4. Docalex007

    Docalex007 Hall of Fame

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    I can't vote any of them as best HC player for this year! None of them deserve that title. It's too even between them. All of them have highs and their lows, no consistency in dominating HCs.
     
    #4
  5. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    Nadal's losses on HC in 2009:

    RR Robin Soderling (SWE) 9 L 4-6, 4-6 Stats

    RR Nikolay Davydenko (RUS) 7 L 1-6, 6-7(4) Stats

    RR Novak Djokovic (SRB) 3 L 6-7(5), 3-6 Stats

    S Novak Djokovic (SRB) 3 L 2-6, 3-6

    F Nikolay Davydenko (RUS) 8 L 6-7(3), 3-6 Stats

    S Marin Cilic (CRO) 15 L 1-6, 3-6

    S Juan Martin Del Potro (ARG) 6 L 2-6, 2-6, 2-6

    S Novak Djokovic (SRB) 4 L 1-6, 4-6

    Q Juan Martin Del Potro (ARG) 6 L 6-7(5), 1-6

    Q Juan Martin Del Potro (ARG) 7 L 4-6, 6-3, 6-7(3)

    F Andy Murray (GBR) 4 L 3-6, 6-4, 0-6

    Q Gael Monfils (FRA) 13 L 4-6, 4-6



    So the answer is NO. Nadal is NOT the best HC player of 2009.
     
    #5
  6. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Based on results Nadal is the best HC player of 2009, but by only a very small margin.
     
    #6
  7. flying24

    flying24 Banned

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    I voted Del Potro. U.S Open is the biggest title, and his performances in Canada and the TMC were atleast as impressive as Nadal at Indian Wells anyway. He just got a killer draw in Canada which was too tough to quite finish (he got 20 minutes away before running out of gas). Nadal got so lucky at Indian Wells it is hard to even put into words.
     
    #7
  8. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    Results as in ranking points accumulated on HC events? Anyone has that stat?
     
    #8
  9. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal. He made at least the QF of every HC event he played in, no other player did that.
     
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  10. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    by that logic, if a player made QF of every event he played in, he would automaticly become the best player of all surfaces in that season?
     
    #10
  11. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

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    Nadal beat Nalbandian, Roddick and Murray to win his Indian Wells title, Del Potro lost to Murray in the final.
     
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  12. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    I mean on top of his AO title and MS title, obviously. :roll:

    He's been the most consistent HC player all season.
     
    #12
  13. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    After Nalbandian choked away matchpoints after matchpoints...He was right to say he got lucky.
     
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  14. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nadal was the winner of the Australian Open and Indian Wells Masters, and was also runner-up of the Shanghai Masters. Add this to the fact that he reached at least the quarter finals of every hardcourt event he played in this year, I say Nadal.

    This is about the whole of 2009, not just the last few weeks or months.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
    #14
  15. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    So the guy who won the most hardcourt titles, who has the highest % of hardcourt wins, the best hardcourt head to head v top 8 and the only guy to win 2 hardcourt masters titles doesn't even get a place in the poll?
     
    #15
  16. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Haas choked BPs vs Fed after being 2 sets up. Is it right to devalue Fed's FO title b/c of that?
     
    #16
  17. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    BPs are not MPs.
     
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  18. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    It was a glorified MP being 4-3 up.

    Still, answer the question. Is it OK to say Fed was lucky to win the French, since you're saying Nadal was lucky to win IW?
     
    #18
  19. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

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    Exactly. Some also might say Federer choked the US Open final to Del Potro.
     
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  20. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    I was refering to the logic of that post alone. I did not see "I mean on top of his AO title and MS title" in that post.
     
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  21. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    glorified MP is not multiple REAL MPs.

    Fed was lucky to win the French? I thought thats the forgone conclusion here on TW that he is. Isn't it? Not facing Nadal = lucky. Weren't you around during the FO? lol
     
    #21
  22. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    Points on hardcourts


    Federer 5100 (11)
    Nadal 5325 (12)
    Del Potro 5025 (13)



    These numbers should be right..might be off did this quickly will look at it again but basically I took every point earned on hardcourts even non counted one. Nadal is the clear leader here but if I am correct Fed played the least actual tournaments due to withdrawls Nadal played the second least and Del Potro played the most. They are all extremely close and a big factor could be both Fed and Del Potro missed a master series tournament on hardcourts. Very interesting numbers. Could someone double check the point totals though? I might have god the year end championship values for as I could not find it listed and had to do the calculations based off wikipedia and could have minor adding errors.
     
    #22
  23. flying24

    flying24 Banned

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    If you lose in the 4th round of the 2 biggest hard court events of the year, and are eliminated in the RR of the 3rd, no you shouldnt get any place on the poll.
     
    #23
  24. vanity

    vanity Banned

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    What the heck has Djokovic won to be in this pole? While Murray isn't?

    You got to love the fact the OP has not added Murray even though he's won more MS titles on HC this year than any of the top 5.
     
    #24
  25. flying24

    flying24 Banned

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    LOL, Djokovic is not in the poll.
     
    #25
  26. vanity

    vanity Banned

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    Wrong thread, but it's still true.
     
    #26
  27. Talk about he will lose a ****load of points failing to defend that title in 3,5 months ! :shock:
     
    #27
  28. Breaker

    Breaker Legend

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    Think you have to get to the quarterfinals of a hard court slam first to be considered a top hard court player on the year..

    I voted Nadal even though the other three could be argued for. It was very close on hard courts this year.
     
    #28
  29. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    OK. The whole hardcourt season is only about the two slams and WTF. Now I understand.

    A player could win all 5 hardcourt MS events and 4 ATP 500 hardcourt events, but if another player won the WTF then he should be in the poll but the guy who won those 9 titles shouldn't - assuming their hardcourt slam records are the same.

    That's the clear implication of your statement. Only those 3 titles count.
     
    #29
  30. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    My calculation:

    Federer 5100
    Nadal 5925
    Del Potro 5480


    Again, could be wrong.
     
    #30
  31. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Like Davydenko did?
     
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  32. Breaker

    Breaker Legend

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    IF Murray had won all 5 then he would definitely be in with a shout, however, he only won two and made the final of another. His performances in the slams were average at best and only a RR performance at TMC doesn't help either. There's nothing that he really has over Federer, Nadal, Davydenko, or Del Potro.
     
    #32
  33. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Winning two is so easy isn't it - that's how come nobody else on tour did it this year.

    Murray won 5 hardcourt titles - more than any of them. He has won a higher % of hardcourt matches than any of them. He has the best hardcourt head to head v the rest of the top 8 than any of them. He has won more hardcourt Masters Events than any of them.

    You're right - that's nothing.
     
    #33
  34. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Federer has 2 slam finals and a Masters title. Nadal has a slam and a masters title. Del Potro has a final at a Masters and a slam title. Davydenko has a Masters and a TMC.



    You're right, he has everything over them.
     
    #34
  35. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Federer for his run at the Slam finals, Cincinatti beatdown and semi's of TMC!
     
    #35
  36. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    I voted Nadal. If Del Potro had won Sundays final I would have said him but he didnt.
     
    #36
  37. fps

    fps Legend

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    IMO there is no "best" hardcourt player this year, just a group of players who have done very well.
     
    #37
  38. Breaker

    Breaker Legend

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    If you think those things are enough to put him over 1 slam each from Nadal (and MS) and DelPo, 2 slam runners up + MS from Fed, and a TMC and a MS from Davydenko --- then that's fine.

    It makes no sense whatsoever though.
     
    #38
  39. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    Murray hasnt even come close to winning all 9 of those events so your hypothetical is pointless.
     
    #39
  40. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    For clarity - I don't think Murray is hardcourt player of the year or anywhere close, but if Davydenko is in the poll then so is Murray.
     
    #40
  41. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Flying24 said that:

    If you lose in the 4th round of the 2 biggest hard court events of the year, and are eliminated in the RR of the 3rd, no you shouldnt get any place on the poll.

    I didn't say Murray came close. I didn't mention murray. I simply pointed out the logical implication of Flying24's assertion.
     
    #41
  42. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    enough with your strawman - I never said Murray was ahead of any of them but to repeat, if Davy's in the poll then si so is Murray.

    It's funny how those guys winning a single masters title is part of the equation but Murray's two wins are disregarded. Must be an easy thing to do - so easy that none of those other guys were able to do it this year.
     
    #42
  43. flying24

    flying24 Banned

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    Winning the Year end Event plus a regular Masters is bigger than winning 2 regular Masters, as the Year End Event is clearly bigger than a regular Masters.
     
    #43
  44. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    The problem for Nadal is he start out strong at the beginning of the year, but ended the year with a terrible note. A player who finished strong in the 2nd half of the year normally gets the edge over a player did in the 1st half. Sure Nadal is the best in the earlier stage of the year, but in the 2nd half the other players were better than him. And not only Rafa was winless at RR, he was set-less, which hurts him even more.
     
    #44
  45. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    I don't disagree with this. But Murray has been to another Masters final and has another 3 hardcourt titles to his name. Titles that he beat Roger, Roddick, Rafa and Verdasco to win.
     
    #45
  46. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    Resutls wise, Nadal is 1st. You can't argue with a GS title and an MS title. However, performence wise, Nadal is not even top 3, as he lost just about every HC match in recent months to top 10 players and most in straight sets. Performence wise I have to go with Del Potro.

    Federer has also seen some good performences like AO (for the most part), USO (for the most part) and Cincy (beating Murray and Djoko in a row) but also very bad ones like Miami, IW, Montreal, Basel final, even WTF one would say.
     
    #46
  47. T1000

    T1000 Hall of Fame

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    Nadal - slam+ms title and reached QF or better
    Federer - ms title + two slam finals
    Del Potro - slam title
    Davydenko - WTF title
    Djokovic - US semi
    Murray - didn't come up big in the big events
     
    #47
  48. akv89

    akv89 Hall of Fame

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    1. Nadal
    2. Del Potro
    3. Federer
     
    #48
  49. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Enough with my strawman? I'm sorry, I can't use ridiculous logic like you?




    Let me lay this out to you :



    Andy Murray didn't make it past the 4th round of either HC slam. He won 2 Masters Titles, which is an impressive feat, however it is overshadowed by the fact that :


    1. Federer, 1 Master Title and 2 Slam Finals, which overshadows the 2 Master Title wins by quite a large margin.

    2. Nadal, 1 Slam and 1 Master Title, wins by a mile over Murray's results.

    3. Del Potro 1 Slam, 1 Final at a Masters Tournament, QF in Australia, and good showings at the majority of HC tournaments. Beats Andy Murray's results again.

    4. Davydenko, Tennis Masters Cup and a Masters Title. Overshadows Murray's results, again. And not just that, Davydenko beat Nadal, Federer, and Del Potro in the same tournament, all who are slam winners. Wait, what? Murray isn't even close in terms of results.




    Wait why should Murray even be on this poll again? Andy Murray isn't on this poll because he doesn't deserve to be even in the same conversation as the best hardcourt player of the year. He has no right, at all. Period.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
    #49
  50. tomas9848

    tomas9848 Professional

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    Fed played great like always. But, he won a clay title and a grass. So he is the best grass player. And he has one 5 US OPENS and a couple Aussie Opens. But, Del Po has played great too. Its really hard but, overall with the Nadal injury and not being 100%. Probably Mr. Roger Federer
     
    #50

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