Best Mexican player - Rafael Osuna or Raul Ramirez?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Mustard, Sep 11, 2012.

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Best Mexican player - Rafael Osuna or Raul Ramirez?

  1. Rafael Osuna

    66.7%
  2. Raul Ramirez

    33.3%
  1. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    What are people's opinions on this?
     
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  2. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Osuna's 1963 U.S. National Championship included a run of victories over some outstanding players including 2 major champions, Tony Roche and Chuck McKinley.
     
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  3. sansaephanh

    sansaephanh Professional

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    Isn't he spanish?
     
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  4. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    I would go with Rafa Osuna, who was a very fast and capable volleyer and half volleyer, mostly touch volleyer, great doubles player too (with Ralston). Formed a strong Davis Cup team with Tony Palafox, who later coached McEnroe. They reached the Challenge Round in 1962, and lost to the Aussies. As said, he won he Forest Champs 1963. Rafa had two famous singles matches, a semi loss at Forest Hills to Rod Laver in 1962, when Laver hit 4 straight backhand return winners in the last game. And a first round 5 setter at Wimbledon 1964 against Manuel Santana. Many of the British old writer guard called it the most exquisite tennis match ever seen. Sadly he lost his life in a plane crash.

    Raul Ramirez was a fine, silky player like Vijay, great doubles player too, with Brian Gottfried. Lacked a bit the big weapon and the killer instinct. Won Rome against tough opposition 1975or so. His most famous wins were Davis Cup victories over the US, one over prime Connors in the last rubber.
     
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  5. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Both finesse players, a more modern conception from Ramirez, who was IMO one of the most complete players of the 70´s, but a better record from Raton (Mouse)Osuna.

    I never saw raton Osuna but I heard how well and fondly Santana described his game.His 1963 win at Forest Hills is something Raul never was able to achieve.

    However, ramirez reached many Masters and WCT finals and was a semifinalist at both RG and Wimbledon, as well as several times a quarter finalist at the three majors of the 70´s.

    A truly great player.I would like to know his record agaisnt Okker, because they were, IMO, tbe best non slam champion players of the 70´s.
     
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  6. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Here's the head to head of Okker and Ramirez but that may be misleading since Okker is older by about nine years. They didn't start played until Okker was about 32.

    City Surface Round Winner & Score
    1980 Forest Hills WCT
    NY, U.S.A. Clay R32 Ramirez, Raul
    5-7, 6-1, 6-1
    1979 Denver
    CO, U.S.A. Carpet R32 Okker, Tom
    6-4, 7-6
    1977 Wembley
    England Hard Q Ramirez, Raul
    6-4, 6-2
    1976 Stockholm
    Sweden Hard R16 Ramirez, Raul
    7-6, 6-1

    Interestingly enough I enjoyed watching Ramirez almost more in doubles than in singles.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
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  7. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Thanks.Clear edge for Ramirez, or Ramrod as he was known.While I had the luck to see a top form Ramirez in singles, I also enjoyed his great doubles game along Gottfried, another talented and somehow underrated man.
     
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  8. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I wouldn't call Ramirez a finesse player. He was more of a clay court baseliner/semi-moonballer. Almost what you would call a clay court specialist. Not as much of a moonballer as Harold Solomon, but, his gameplan was very similar to Borg's, hit looping cross court groundies and outlast your opponent with conditioning. He just wasn't quite at Borg's level. He was a good volleyer too, but, in singles, he was primarily a baseliner.

    I saw him play a match against Billy Martin on clay. One of the most grueling (and gruelingly boring), matches I've seen. Martin won the match by out pushing Ramirez, which was not an easy task, especially on clay.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
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  9. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    In the 70´s you couldn´t achieve Ramirez results on grass and indoors without good and consistent net play.But he also could be an all round player baselining on clay.
     
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