best nation in tennis?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by dominikk1985, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    I think it's safe to say that spain is the best country by far.
    they have aroun 14 top100 players and 3 top10 guys.no other country can keep up with them.

    but who is behind them? I think no.2-5 is much closer.

    two factors have to be considered:
    1)number of very good (top100) players
    2)players at the top-top 10 players have more value then top100 players, so a country that has 3 top10 players but only 5 top100 players (2 more) is better than a country with 7 top100 players but none in the top10.

    so consider both. many top100 players is great, top players give extra points.

    So who is behind spain?
    I think it's between serbia, croatia, france, USA and argentina.


    russia has slipped at the top a little.

    and then there are countries like germany with ten top100 players (second most to spain) but no top players or switzerland with two top players (3 and 13) but nothing to back it up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
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  2. niff

    niff Legend

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    Frenchies <3
     
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  3. jwbarrientos

    jwbarrientos Hall of Fame

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    Without any reasearch I'd say that 2011 Nation rank should have Spain, France, Serbia, USA and ARG.

    There're countries with a lot of tradition not producing big champions lately but having great players, have in mind UK (Andy), Australia (Lleyton), Russia (Nicolai where are you man), Germany and many others
     
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  4. CocaCola

    CocaCola Professional

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    ATP - Spain, France, Serbia, Argentine, USA.
    WTA - Russia, Serbia, USA.
     
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  5. cucio

    cucio Legend

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    I once cooked up a little script that read the rankings web page and added the points per country. I don't know where I have it, but its results on Sep 2008 are here:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=2771591&postcount=14

    I quote:

     
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  6. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    This is a very dear topic to the usta ...

    I bet the usta operational budget and the number of tennis academies in the US far exceeds the more efficient leaders like Spain and France. (Probably the same story for the US government but this is a much more serious problem that is best left disucssed by other think tank boards)

    The question is why are Spain and France more efficient at developing top tennis players ?
    Do the US academies really assist this outcome ?
    Is the number of foriengn students in US academies much greater than the number of US students in foreign academies ?
    (Same questions for the US colleges but again these are questions for other think tank boards)
    Hard questions to answer since these statistics are probably difficult to obtain and determine.
     
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  7. cucio

    cucio Legend

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    In my opinion there isn't anything anyone can do to train top-100-level players. That's genius level, a rare combination of favorable genetics and a rich, sports-oriented family. The best a training program can do is churn out acceptable hitting partners so if a genius happens to pop up he can have someone to train with.

    I base this statement on the amount of top 100 Spanish players younger than 24: just the one, Pere Riba (age 22).
     
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  8. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Baghdatis trained in France and Murray in Spain.
     
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  9. Rainalkar

    Rainalkar Rookie

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    In terms of players produced compared to number of citizens, Croatia could well be the best of all. Franulović, Pilić, Ivanišević, Ančić, Ljubičić, Čilić... However, some other are emerging as well: I expect Serbia to advance high as well. Balkan nations have historically been brilliant in sport talents compared to level of financing and such.
     
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  10. Nadalfan89

    Nadalfan89 Hall of Fame

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    Spain and then France.
     
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  11. Overheadsmash

    Overheadsmash Semi-Pro

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    In the U.S., tennis takes a back seat to:

    football
    baseball
    basketball
    hockey
    soccer
    lacrosse
    track
    wrestling

    So many kids go into these sports that tennis is just not getting enough of the great athletes. In the 70s and 80s, and even the 90s, tennis was pretty huge in the U.S. These days, not so much sadly.

    Good news is almost every college has a tennis program and Overheadsmash Junior and his sister (12 and 11 years old) both are in junior tennis, so dad is hoping they are good high school players and get scholarships. They seem to like it a lot actually. Junior wants go to the naval academy and it is my understanding from our tour there last summer that they have a pretty decent tennis program.
     
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  12. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    in the context of history, and relative to population, Australia overwhelms any other country.It´s elbow and shoulders.

    Australia in tennis is like former Yugoslavia in basketball.or even Uruguay in soccer.

    Now, Spain among the men and Russia/Belgium/USA for the girls.
     
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  13. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    right there are very few young spanish top 100 players, but lets not forget that there are not many young top100 players at all.

    nearly all top100 players are 22+ in these days.

    I do think that a great system can produce top100 players. it's certainly no coincidence that spain and france have more than 10% each of the top100. they just have a very good system. on the other hand some traditional tennis nations (england, sweden) have only one top100 player (but it's a top5:D). that certainly has to do with the system.


    But I do think that a system can't produce top10 players. If you have a lot of young players and teach them a great technique this will pay off in terms of top100 players. but top10 needs special talent.

    a good example of this is germany. very good technique education of youth players and thus a lot of top100 players. but none of them made the top in the last years.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
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  14. TheBoom

    TheBoom Hall of Fame

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    I agree here in the us people mostly play football basketball and baseball which if you go pro you can get huge amounts of money without "as much competition" or pressure as tennis does
     
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  15. vandre

    vandre Hall of Fame

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    are we talking about "which nationality has the most top players?" or "which country trains the most top level players?" because as i see it, its 2 different questions all together. kuzzy, a russian, trains in spain. murray and baggy (from a previous post) train in other countries than the ones they're from. masha trained at bollitieri's (as did vaidasova/ r.i.p. and many many others). "homegrown" american tennis tallent is at a dismal level right now but there are still a number of foreign players who train at academies in the usa.
     
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  16. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    Australia wins throughout history no doubt about it. 16 grand slam winners for a country with a population so small to win more then every other except for the US and UK.
     
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  17. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    ... and how many gran slams did they totally win ? I´m not sure about the US, but head and shoulders above the UK, sure.At least, since international tennis existed.Don´t forget that, till the 1900´s, Wimbledon was a sort of a regional or national championship, with 2 or 3 exotic non english players...and since Wimbledon went internationally, just the Doherty and Fred Perry won it.
     
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  18. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    I know the all about the UK situation being form here and the stats are lop sided and bias that way.

    Just looked it up for you and Oz has a stunning total of 101 grand slams :shock:
    Margaret Court has 24 of those alone ofcourse lol.
     
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  19. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    BTW, Who is the second oz with more slams? I´d say Emmo and next Laver.Do you know the total rankings.Hoad,Sedgman,Fraser,Brookes and Crawford are behind Court,Emerson,Laver,Rosewall and Newcombe, I guess.
     
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  20. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    Historically, adding all GSs + DC titles, it's still US and Australia

    Currently it's Spain, esp because of GSs + Davis Cup combined success
    next
    Switzerland (1 player): 16 GSs over the last 10 years: how many countries have that? :)
     
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  21. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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  22. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    That's the same link I was thinking of RA. It's pretty telling. Historically speaking, the United States has won more majors than any other country. Australia and Great Britain are both quite a bit behind the U.S. in terms of total majors won. Australia was and still is very influential as a tennis nation though, no doubt about that, as was Great Britain. The lists presented here below look like they are only through 2003, but it's interesting to compare how countries fared over time. My vote goes to the United States historically, with Australia second. Currently, I'd say Spain, Russia, and the United States are at the top, with perhaps Spain as #1 for the men and Russia #1 for women. Even so, I think over time, the U.S. will produce plenty of top flight players again.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Grand_Slam_singles_champions_by_country
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
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  23. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    :)
    Thanks.Good info.I didn´t know Cooper had won more GS titles than Fraser.

    The aussies were so good, at some point, they could even export guys like Bob Hewitt and Martin Mulligan a Wimbledon runner up that played DC:-? for Italy, and was considered a potentially big rival for Laver when they both started competing.
     
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  24. YodaKnowsBest

    YodaKnowsBest Banned

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    Who won the Davis Cup last year? :confused:
     
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  25. cucio

    cucio Legend

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    I dug up my old script. Here are the results using today's ATP ranking:

    ESP 31821 Nadal,Ferrer,Verdasco,Almagro,Montanes,Garcia-Lopez,Robredo,Lopez,Granollers,Ferrero,Gimeno-Traver,Andujar,Riba, 13
    SRB 12590 Djokovic,Troicki,Tipsarevic, 3
    FRA 12532 Monfils,Tsonga,Gasquet,Simon,Llodra,Chardy,Mannarino,Benneteau,Serra,Mahut, 10
    SUI 10870 Federer,Wawrinka, 2
    USA 9179 Fish,Roddick,Querrey,Isner,Kendrick,Russell,Sweeting, 7
    GER 6904 Kohlschreiber,Mayer,Becker,Petzschner,Kamke,Berrer,Brands,Schuettler,Zverev, 9
    ARG 6840 Nalbandian,Chela,Monaco,DelBerlocq,Zeballos,Gonzalez, 6
    RUS 5655 Youzhny,Davydenko,Gabashvili,Tursunov,Kunitsyn,Andreev, 6
    GBR 5545 Murray, 1
    SWE 5420 Soderling, 1
    CZE 5199 Berdych,Stepanek,Hajek, 3
    ITA 3537 Starace,Seppi,Fognini,Volandri, 4
    CRO 3436 Cilic,Ljubicic,Dodig, 3
    AUT 3215 Melzer,Haider-Maurer, 2
    UKR 2575 Dolgopolov,Stakhovsky, 2
    KAZ 1882 Golubev,Kukushkin, 2
    BRA 1810 Bellucci,Mello, 2
    NED 1703 deHaase, 1
    BEL 1637 Malisse,Rochus, 2
    JPN 1411 Nishikori,Soeda, 2
    CYP 1375 Baghdatis, 1
    LAT 1220 Gulbis, 1
    RSA 1197 Anderson, 1
    CAN 1173 Raonic, 1
    POR 1149 Gil,Machado, 2
    TPE 1027 Lu, 1
    COL 965 Giraldo, 1
    UZB 895 Istomin, 1
    FIN 862 Nieminen, 1
    ROU 850 Hanescu, 1
    AUS 795 Hewitt, 1
    URU 770 Cuevas, 1
    BUL 727 Dimitrov, 1
    IND 720 Devvarman, 1
    LTU 673 Berankis, 1
    SLO 587 Kavcic, 1
     
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  26. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    shamefull situation for Australian, swedish and british tennis.

    only one top100 player (even if it's top5 for sweden and england) is just atrocious no matter how you spin it.

    Those 3 nations are some of the biggest tennis nations historically. sweden had several ATGs (borg, wilander, edberg) and australia has about 30 DC wins. and england is the inventor of tennis and hosts the most important tennis tournament in the world.

    there is really no excuse for those 3 countries for that. just sucks.

    yes I know soccer, basketball or whatever are more popular in those countries and "steal" talent, but this applies to france or spain too (france and spain are much better in soccer than england or sweden).
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
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  27. cucio

    cucio Legend

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    On the other hand, if it is any consolation, UK and Sweden have some of the best point per player ratio.

    GBR, SWI and SWE are the top 3 in that category.
     
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  28. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    Also you earn a salary in those sports so you are not so dependent on winning tournaments, while in tennis in order to climb up to earn good endorsements and sponsorships you need to win a lot before that all the money yo make is based on how much you win and at the lowest levels of tennis that is not much at all.
     
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  29. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Sweden has great tennis tradition, I don't know what happened :(

    Borg, wilander, Edberg come baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaackkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  30. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Good answer.I agree on your P.O.V.Australia ahs ahd 10 years ago greats like Rafter,Hewitt and Mark Philippousis and in the 80´s they had Cash.But since Newcombe, at the beginning of the 1970´s they have lost the generational effect that made the australian tennis factory boil at full steam.

    UK, since Perry ( and Wade for the girls, in the 70´s) hasn´t produced a real great tennis player, but at least they had some good and competitive guys (Henman,LLoyd,Taylor,Mottram,Cox and Murray, who has the best potential of them all).Now, they have just Murray, who isn´t english but scott.

    Sweden, like Australia, lost the generational chain after the early 90´s.Norman,Enquist,Johansson or, even Soderling, are rather exceptions than the rule.I think, in all 3 cases, it is the addition of: lost of money investment + less TV coverage + lack of discipline.Tennis is one of the most demanding sports if you want to make real money.Whereas you can be a three striker and make money playing reserve full back in any second string premium league team and for aussies, the money is in rugby, surf and so on.
     
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  31. Tshooter

    Tshooter Hall of Fame

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    The principality of Monaco.
     
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  32. Agassifan

    Agassifan Hall of Fame

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    Except Spain and France suck more in the government :)
     
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  33. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    No country has a tennis crisis like the UK's.USA,Sweden and Australia have all produced GS winners within the last 20 years.The UK has not produced a male GS winner since 1936 and no Wimbledon men's finalist since 1938! Our women have done a bit better with 3 women Wimbledon champions in the 60s and 70s (Mortimer,Jones & Wade) but no GS winner or finalist since 1977.

    I always have the feeling that with USA,Sweden and Australia (and others) their downturns are cyclical.Eventually they will come back.Not so with the UK.Our tennis crisis just seems endemic! :cry:


    Tim Henman: Is the state of British tennis 'embarrassing?'
    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/tennis/tramlines/article/1072/

    Don't all rush to answer!
     
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  34. lonux

    lonux Hall of Fame

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    I can proudly say: Belgium! For it's size, there are quite some good players.
     
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  35. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    what is the reason for the UK crisis? Is tennis not popular there? how about rec players, is tennis present in the UK as a rec sport?

    I have heard that the LTA put a lot of money in youth player developement. will that pay off?

    We in germany have the same question. our tennis federation spent a lot of money in the mid 90s to early 00s to get the "next becker". back then a huge amount of kids played tennis because every parent wanted to get a new steffi or boris.

    but still it didn't work out. that generation didn't produce a single top player (schüttler, kiefer and haas where earlier). that is frustrating.

    but at least we produced loads of top100 players unlike GB who basically produced no one.

    I can't understand this.
     
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  36. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Most British people only know tennis through the two weeks of Wimbledon in the summer.Unless you have Sky Sports coverage like me,there is little opportunity to see other tennis tournaments on TV or in the media (except if Andy Murray progresses).In the UK,tennis is still seen as a rich person's sport.Most kids who are into sport tend to want to be footballers or rugby players or go into athletics.Tennis just isn't on their radar.The disappearance of tennis courts from schools and public parks is a reflection of this.If you want to play tennis you have to join a club and most of these are expensive,ie.mostly for kids with wealthy parents.

    It hasn't done so far.Many critics think the money has been misspent or been channelled in the wrong direction or that too much is given to early to aspiring tennis players with not enough talent or commitment giving them no incentive to earn by results.The debate is endless.

    I think a lot of it has to with success breeding success.When champions like Becker and Graff were active,tennis was probably very popular in Germany and many kids wanted to imitate them.Since then,the lack of champions has resulted in a lack of role models.In the UK,lack of role models has been a constant drawback because of the constant lack of champions.In other words,a vicious circle.

    Well,since Henman retired,there is Andy Murray,although Andy did a lot of his early training in Spain.
     
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  37. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Public systems like the french and excellent, competitive, country clubs like Spain are something missing in the UK.But, never forget that weather helps a lot for our practices¡¡¡ and the UK weather is not exactly french or spanish.
     
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  38. MARTINBALDRIDGE

    MARTINBALDRIDGE Rookie

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    The Tennis Guy's Take

    I reckon you're right about Serbia - for a country of 7.5 million they're doing amazingly well.

    Think you might be wrong about Russia in decline though. Their women still dominate the top-100 and with the Williamses not doing great and Clijsters injured Zvinareva's gotta be a good bet for this year's slams.

    The thing about the Russian men is that many Russian born men have "defected" to other post Soviet states so they earn more money.

    Spanish women do do that great overall and the French women have really declined in the last 3 years.

    The Czech Republic had 8 women and 4 men in the Top-100 last year sp they ain't to bad either!

    Italy's on the up too.

    So my picks Russia 1 Spain 2 Germany 3 France 4 Czech Republic 5 Italy and USA 6
     
    #38
  39. nimailni

    nimailni New User

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    What is Davis Cup for if not for deciding who is the best tennis nation at the moment?

    The winner is the Champion (Noun: A person/team who has defeated or surpassed all rivals in a competition, esp. in sports.)
     
    #39
  40. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Comparing Australia and the US, and their GS/population ratio, Australia is like 10-15 times much stronger than the US.No doubt about that.
     
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  41. Dilettante

    Dilettante Hall of Fame

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    I don't know about how German system works exactly but a question came to mind, maybe the idea of producing a "next Becker" was not a good approach? No academy/school system can produce a Becker. Sometimes this kind of approach (if it's the case) is counterproductive because that kind of results (a new Becker) won't be achieved and the authorities tend to be impatient when a program doesn't give a quick marketable result.

    In Spain for example everyone agrees that a "new Nadal" is a fairy tale and the best result we can expect for the future is having our share of top-100 players and, maybe, an occasional Ferrero or Moyà.

    I often wonder what happened to German men's tennis, it's probably one of the most pronunciated declinings in tennis.
     
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  42. Oceansize

    Oceansize Rookie

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    Seeing as delusions of grandeur are our speciality, obviously Great Britain is the best. An argument can be made for other nations being more successful, but Great Britain will always be the best.
     
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  43. lgbalfa

    lgbalfa Professional

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    def not america most probably spain.
     
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  44. Forehand Avenger

    Forehand Avenger Banned

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    Spain, France, Argentina, and Russia are countries to be admired in tennis.

    Botswana and Greece are the laughing stock of tennis fans everywhere.
     
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  45. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    I would say Serbia (Man and women) have more to be admired than at least 3 out of those 4 you mentioned...
    Czech...could be up there, too
     
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  46. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    Wow, Spain has so much depth if you look at exactly how far down their own top national rankings you have to go to find a player out of the the top 100.

    1. Nadal [1]
    2. Ferrer [6]
    3. Almagro [11]
    4. Verdasco [12]
    5. Garcia-Lopez [26]
    6. Montanes [27]
    7. Robredo [30]
    8. Lopez [42]
    9. Andujar [51]
    10. Granollers [52]
    11. Gimeno-Traver [60]
    12. Riba [76]
    13. Ferrero [77]
    14. Ramirez Hidalgo [97]
    15. Ramos [107]

    Their 14th best guy is still in the Top 100 of the world!! That's ridiculous.

    Not to mention other guys out of the Top 100 who are somewhat decent (or atleast used to be :lol:) from Spain like Ivan Navarro, Oscar Hernandez, Alberto Martin, Santiago Ventura and there's also doubles specialists like Marc Lopez and David Marrero.

    It's no wonder why Spain's so strong in Davis Cup for the last decade.
     
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  47. Forehand Avenger

    Forehand Avenger Banned

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    Yes, currently Serbia is a great tennis nation.

    I was thinking of recent times. If we go further, obviously the U.S. and Germany would have to be included as well.

    Botswana and Greece always stunk and will continue to stink though, you can count on that. :)
     
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  48. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    ¿Where´s swedish tennis gone? Other than Sodelring, I don´t see so many tennis stars right now.I guess the last one was the bright but volatile Johansson.Nothing to see with the 80´s and 90´s where Swede had about 5-10 players in the top 50.
     
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