Best on their worst surface

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by timnz, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Rank these greats playing on their worst surface

    Nadal -indoor (some people say hard but I have no idea why since it is so clear that it is indoor)

    Federer -clay

    McEnroe-clay

    Becker-clay

    Borg-hard (?????? Actually I think Borg was the only player not to have a weakest surface)

    Edberg-clay

    Laver-clay


    I would put federer first in this list and Becker and nadal near the bottom of the lisr
     
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  2. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Sorry

    Should have put it In The former pro player forum.....
     
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  3. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    Djokovic Grass
    Murray Clay
     
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  4. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    "Indoor" is not a surface
     
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  5. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    The worst surface to play tennis on is Federer.
     
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  6. Pwned

    Pwned Hall of Fame

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    Indoor is hard. There are no carpet indoor courts. And only one indoor court is considered medium/fast.
     
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  7. Nadalfan89

    Nadalfan89 Hall of Fame

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    McEnroe is the obvious choice. He was abysmal on clay. Nadal has multiple hardcourt master's, a USO and an AO so he can't be it.

    Nadal has achieved more on hardcourt than Federer did on clay.
     
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  8. timeisonmyside

    timeisonmyside Semi-Pro

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    I think some people are misunderstanding the question. The OP is asking who is the best player on their corresponding worst surface.

    I would say Federer - clay, but it's kind of hard to call clay his 'worst' surface. He probably personally likes to play on the stuff, but his only problem is that he loses to the clay court GOAT. He'd more than likely would have 5 FO's and many more masters on clay if it weren't for Nadal.
     
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  9. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Federer and Lendl if you don't count HC as Nadal's worst surface although I can't see how indoors qualifies as a different surface exactly? Maybe indoor carpet but that surface is extinct,Masters Cup is played on a low bouncing slowish HC.
     
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  10. accidental

    accidental Professional

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    Abysmal on clay? He was 1 set from serve and volleying his way to the Roland Garros title

    Becker was worse on clay, also Sampras who isnt on this list for some reason
     
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  11. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    They are obvious choices for not being the best on their worst surface, so it must've been easy to exclude them.
     
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  12. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Indoor

    In terms of the conditions affecting play - absolutely it is. There is quite a difference due to that.
     
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  13. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Indoor

    Again, one needs to evaluate Nadal on Indoor not Hard.
     
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  14. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Nadal Indoor

    Indoor Nadal's weakest surface.
     
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  15. Tammo

    Tammo Banned

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    I can see why Djokovic is not so good on grass, but Murray has done so much better on clay this year.
     
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  16. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    It seems Federer fans consider indoors not a surface when they dont want Nadal leading their outdoor hard court head to head 4-1, but count indoors as a surface when it suits their argument.

    Anyway if indoors is not a surface probably Nadal on hard courts. If it is then clearly Laver on clay. Federer on clay is definitely not the winner though.
     
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  17. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Technically yes but Nadal had twice as many chances on his worst surface than on his best so it's not a fair comparison. Anyway, Federer on clay is way better than Nadal on hard courts so it doesn't really matter.
     
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  18. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    If you include Becker - clay

    then definitely you should include Lendl - grass.
     
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  19. Pwned

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    How can indoor be a surface? Indoor refers to a ****ing roof not what you play on. Look at the ATP site head 2 heads. Do you see indoor listed? No. Because it isn't a surface that you play on. I guess for idiots like yourself they'll need to create a new category should the AO or Wimbledon be played with a closed roof.
     
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  20. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    LAWL x 100000

    Nadaltards such as yourself came with the idea of an "outdoor" and "indoor" surface, you lier. I'm almost sure Bud was the first one to use outdoor and indoor hard as different surfaces (of course to notice the 4-1 lead on "outdoor" hard over Federer), any stat is good when it hails Nadal and diminishes Federer's greatness.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2011
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  21. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    LOLWUT, does Nadal actually have his best surface since grass AND hard are obviously his worst :D?
     
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  22. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Lendl on grass

    I'd put Lendl on grass as second only to federer on clay, in terms of strength on weakest surface. Lendl made at least the semis of Wimbledon 7 times including making 2 finals. also one Australian open final on grass.
     
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  23. sunnyIce

    sunnyIce Semi-Pro

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    why do we classify surfaces based on material? (other than it being traditional).

    why not classify surfaces based on speed?

    1. Slow / Slow Medium - courts from Jan to end of May
    2. Medium - June/July
    3. Medium Fast / Fast - Aug to Dec.


    HEck, we can take this further and classify by "conditions of play". I will let somebody else do that.
     
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  24. Pwned

    Pwned Hall of Fame

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    Because everything is medium or slower now.
     
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  25. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Take a look at this shall genius:

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tournaments/Event-Calendar.aspx

    As you can see tournaments are either listed just as hard or indoor hard, showing the ATP noting the distinction between the two. So at the very least one can definitely argue indoors as a seperate surface. Do you really think it is coincidence Federer is 1-4 vs Nadal on outdoor hard courts and barely won in the only victory, yet indoors is the only surface he has had an easy time with Nadal so far.

    Anyway if as you indoors is not a surface then fine, Nadal on hard courts (which is now his worst surface) is better than anyone else on their worst surface then. U.S Open, Australian Open, and Olympic winner all on hard courts, tons of Masters titles and finals, many wins over Federer and everyone else on the surface.
     
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  26. sunnyIce

    sunnyIce Semi-Pro

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    ATP should just officially categorize the season into:

    Slow courts

    Medium courts

    Fast courts


    that wud be cool.
     
    #26
  27. Tammo

    Tammo Banned

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    What about Roddick on clay? I think his was the worst.
     
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  28. Pwned

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    So the AO with roof closed is a different surface than open? So Laver doesn't have a true Grand Slam? He never won on indoor hard or indoor grass?!?!!?

    Yes it's a coincidence. Given the lack of fast courts these days the speed of indoor courts is not a factor, WTF especially. Indoor used to refer to super fast carpet courts which aren't played on anymore. A hardcourt is a hardcourt regardless of whether or not there is a roof overhead.
     
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  29. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Of course the AO with roof closed would make it totally different. For instance at the 88 Australian Open final between Graf and Evert they closed the roof and Evert afterwords was furious and blamed the loss on the closed roof, saying the quicker condidtions favored Graf game and threw her totally out of her rythym she had that tournament.
     
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  30. Pwned

    Pwned Hall of Fame

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    Bummer for Laver.
     
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  31. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Those saying a slam has to be won on every surface would discount Laver's slam anyway since there were no hard court slam surfaces of any kind back then, so it makes no difference.
     
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  32. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    [​IMG]
     
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  33. Jchurch

    Jchurch Guest

    No matter the way that you slice it..... Federer on Clay > Nadal on Roof Closed Indoor Hard of Fast but not Super Fast Nature.

    I think I nailed down all your criteria and made the surface that Nadal is "Least Best" on accurate. Wouldn't you agree?

    Also, if Nadal has many wins over Federer and everyone else on this surface, how come he hasn't been to more than one final at the AO and USO?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2011
    #33
  34. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    what happened to that thread that you began ..it was a great thread but it suddenly vanished!:confused:
     
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  35. Nadalfan89

    Nadalfan89 Hall of Fame

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    Mods delete all my threads for no reason. I think they have a policy of only allowing me to post, and not to start threads.
     
    #35
  36. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    I see. Wouldn't thay have informed you if that was a policy.. Otherwise we all post in a great thread then BOOM its suddenly gone, which is dissapointing for you and everyoen else who posted. :confused:
     
    #36
  37. tenniselbow1

    tenniselbow1 Rookie

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    Rafa 'fanatic' fans need to come to their senses and fast.

    How in your right mind do you feel Rafa is a better hard court player than Federer is on clay?

    You do not want me to pull out numbers to make you people look stupid, trust me. If you have no idea what your talking about, please refrain from commenting.
     
    #37
  38. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    Erase Nadal, and Fed has like 3-5 FO titles. Not so bad for a weak surface.
     
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  39. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    Yeah, sure Nadal achieved more? How many MS and slams are on HC? A lot. Good, now how many on clay? About a half. And that's not even including indoors. Fed is A LOT better on clay than Nadal is on indoors.
     
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  40. Jchurch

    Jchurch Guest

    Please pull out the numbers.
     
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  41. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Well,Rafa has 11 hard court titles including 2 Grand Slams.
    Federer has 9 clay court titles including 1 Grand Slam.

    Conclusion: Rafa is better on hard courts than Federer is on clay.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
    #41
  42. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Nope. Federer to win 2 French Opens would need to win it in 2 years. You don't have to wait a full year to have another chance of winning a Slam on hard court tho, as we have both AO and USO played in 1 season. Nadal had twice as many chances to collect the titles he did win. It's not always black and white.
     
    #42
  43. Nadalfan89

    Nadalfan89 Hall of Fame

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    "Indoors" is not a surface. What you're all referring to is hard court.
     
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  44. Jchurch

    Jchurch Guest

    Conversely, if you erase Federer, Nadal gains a Miami and WTF. No more Majors though
     
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  45. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Erase Nadal and the clay court field is the worst in history by a HUGE margin. It might be the worst in history even with Nadal. Federer indeed would be winning French Opens by beating such clay superstars as Mariano Puerta, Ivan Ljubicic, Nikolay Davydenko, and Gael Monfils in the finals.

    Hard courts is the only field that has any quality and depth in the Federer-Nadal which speaks highly to both Federer in his ability to dominate and win so many hard court slams and Nadal in his ability to do so well vs such a strong field of hard courters despite beign better on clay and grass.

    Clay and grass in the Federer-Nadal era is mostly a scanenger ground full of nobodies and mugs on those surfaces and Federer and Nadal both have harvested on the available feast.
     
    #45
  46. Rock Strongo

    Rock Strongo Legend

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    Stop turning every thread into a Nadal/Federer one...

    Lendl and grass.
     
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  47. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I wouldnt say Lendl on grass. Lendl couldnt win a grass court slam even at the Australian which he played 4 times from 83-87 and often had a depleted field. He had the advantage of playing 2 grass slams a year in many of his prime years and still couldnt win one. He couldnt even beat guys like Pat Cash and Mats Wilander in the finals he played to win grass court slams, and lost to much weaker people then that also. Yeah he lost sometimes to Becker or Edberg in the semis or finals, but nearly all the people we talk about faced people that good or better on their worst surfaces.

    Federer on clay, Nadal on hard courts, Agassi on clay, are all much better than Lendl on grass. Connors on clay also, he did win the U.S Open in 76 on green clay and was 3 times a row a finalist. He missed his best potential years at the French.
     
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  48. JeMar

    JeMar Legend

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    Listen to this man.
     
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  49. Nadalfan89

    Nadalfan89 Hall of Fame

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    Actually, Nadal would gain two Wimbledons.
     
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  50. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Grass is Nadal's 2nd best surface,not his worst.
     
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