Better athlete: Federer or Sampras

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by dangalak, Sep 17, 2012.

?

better athlete?

  1. Sampras

    52 vote(s)
    28.1%
  2. Federer

    133 vote(s)
    71.9%
  1. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    There's a whole hell of a lot of romantic misremembering when it comes to comparing tennis players of the past to current ones. Even with the video available of Sampras you have to consider the vast, vast majority are of him playing his best - not his average level.

    As to whether he or Sampras is the better athlete you have to start with one question: what does "athletic" mean? It means slightly or greatly different things to almost everyone which renders most comparisons pointless.

    Notably, the fact Sampras did, on occasion, do cool slam-dunk overheads is a small and borderline irrelevant example with which to really demonstrate him as being a better athlete than Federer.
     
  2. shakes1975

    shakes1975 Semi-Pro

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    I agree. Sampras' slamdunk OH does not necessarily imply that he is the better athlete.
     
  3. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    True, different people will consider different players more athletic going by different criteria.
     
  4. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    Especially when you consider Federer's backhand smash, half volleys and his nuclear defensive abilities.
     
  5. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    It is incredible how people like to suck up to Federer, even as a fan of him.

    Let both of them try out for the NFL and find out who would have the better numbers. It wouldn't be Federer.

    Sampras being able to casually jump 30'' + is excellent proof of what kind of athlete he is.

    Lemme guess, you think Federer is a better athlete than Russell Westbrook as well. :)
     
  6. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    So how does vertical leap matter in tennis? Tennis is not the NBA.

    You know what does matter in tennis? The ability to hit an overhead backhand smash with pace. The ability to half volley from both wings. The ability to hit monster forehands from anywhere on the court.
     
  7. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Just because Federer doesn't jump on overheads doesn't mean he can't jump at all.
     
  8. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    Of course he jumps as much as is needed, he just doesn't do the NBA slam dunk jump except for that one time against Haas just to prove he could. Federer is "the most interesting man in the world".

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Dark Victory

    Dark Victory Rookie

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    I watch Pete in 1997, particularly at GS Cup, Paris MS and YEC... I'm watching how incredible his movement is (especially in those awesome-looking black oscillates) and I'm thinking he's the superior athlete...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bxm23t7osc

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVKWNpdd7jk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQ7VyPkAHE

    But then I watch Federer 2005 at Melbourne, Indian Wells and Miami MS, Wimbledon... early 2005 especially, when he moved like flowing water and I'm thinking: he's the superior athlete...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcyUEIt9Ws8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53eaR5xu_FA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmdI3fX5JNc

    I dunno. Pete was more athletic in a general, masculine sense. His movement was all "jock." Federer's athleticism is different, though in 2005 I think it was more raw and was closer to Pete's type of athleticism.
     
  10. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    Look at the tread title, genius. Does it ask: "Who is better at things that matter in tennis"? No because we all know that is Federer.

    It asks "Who is the better athlete?". And being able to jump out of the gym is a pretty big indicator of athleticism.
     
  11. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    and so is being able to play 5+ hr matches barely breaking a sweat. Here is the thing: Federer can jump as much as Sampras -- some photos in this thread do demonstrate that. In addition to that, he does demonstrate another crucial facet of athleticism -- stamina, which Pete did not.

    GSM Federer.
     
  12. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    What a joke.

    Do you seriously think people would claim Sampras jumps higher if it wasn't the case.

    Bottonline, it doesn't matter who you think is more athletic, but your line of "what matters for tennis is important" is nonsense since I, the OP, determine what this thread is about.
     
  13. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    you are the joke here -- People also claim it's better to lose to journeymen than to your rival. on all fronts, you got pwned because Federer leads the poll by almost 3:1. do you really think people would be saying that if wasn't the case :twisted:?

    I never mentioned "tennis-specific" qualities. you dismissed Pete vs Nadal comparison due to stamina; Federer has the upper hand in stamina as well vs Pete.

    plus, it's your fault for not defining what you mean by athletic.
     
  14. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    I made this thread because i didn't know in the first place. How does this own me? :confused:

    I dismissed Nadal because he is almost as explosive as Sampras with much better stamina. While Federer is superior in stamina as well, he is clearly inferior in explosiveness. That is why I wasn't sure about these two.

    Your error lies in trying to change the thread topic instead of giving a real answer.
     
  15. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    "explosiveness" is a vague term. what do you mean by that?
     
  16. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    Speed, acceleration, jumping ability, power. Essentially, force in a short time. :)
     
  17. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Do you have any FACTS to back up your claims? I mean any hard evidence that Sampras is faster/has better acceleration or jumps higher?
     
  18. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    .............:?

    Good God just get out of here.

    How about using your eyes, genius.
     
  19. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    thank you. now we can get somewhere.

    using my eyes:
    speed -- Federer (evidence: 10x better defense)
    acceleration -- Federer (evidence: near impossible to hit drop shots, or winners in general. ability to get to seemingly impossible balls, exceeded only by Nadal and Djokovic)
    jumping ability -- about even
    power -- Federer (evidence: hits FH and BH consistently harder than Sampras)
    force in a short time -- Federer (this one is not even close. Federer is the master of hitting winners from seemingly impossible and defensive positions).

    combined with better stamina, you have Federer being a clear winner, as the poll results also indicate. As you rightly noted, people wouldn't be saying so if it wasn't true.
     
  20. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    [​IMG]

    Seriously, this is a joke, you cannot possibly be this way.

    I guess Federer is also faster than Blake, since he is a better defender. :lol:
     
  21. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    so what metric would you use to judge "speed" ?
     
  22. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    My eyes tell me that Federer's a better athelete. See we got to a dead end, genius. LOL

    I want hard evidence that Sampras is superior in this area, stats, points, whatever. All you got is a faulty sentimental memory which tells you that Sampras from the get go is better than Federer in everything including cooking, scuba diving and drinking.

    Here's one video showing Federer's speed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUnCOhMV-1U Use your eyes, please and find me a video showing Sampras superior speed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  23. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    Yes, because "10 times better defense" is ALL speed. It has nothing to do with anticipation, footwork, balance, defensive shotmaking.

    Genius, who the hell hits dropshots against a serve and volleyer? You were trying to pin him to the baseline.

    :lol:

    Oh my God....

    Yes that has nothing to do with Sampras not having CONSISTENT groundstrokes.

    Also, by some strange coincidence, Sampras served about 15 mph harder, with the same precision and the same motion.

    What the hell are you blabbering about?

    It isn't the same, genius. Overall athleticism is hard to quantify. It is visible with the naked eye that Sampras was a far better leaper than Federer and something that literally nobody but you denies.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZmRzR8BYaHc#t=40s

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UwSH43OVUPE#t=760s

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OUfv3K1ctSM#t=38s
     
  24. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    That isn't a normal tv ratio. He looks twice as slow in the normal ratio.

    Seriously, this is where everyone that expected even a slight amount of impartiality from this part of the forum needs to give up all hope.

    How deluded do you have to believe that a guy like Federer is faster than SAMPRAS? I mean my GOD.
     
  25. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    That's exactly the response I was expecting from a ***********, instead of posting a video proving me wrong you throw in "you're deluded".

    Well if you say so. I guess those 108 other people who voted for Federer know nothing as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  26. edberg505

    edberg505 Legend

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    LOL, you make it seems as if the disparity between their speed is huge. From the way you are making it sound; it's as if Sampras is has Nadal like speed and Federer has Karlovic speed. I mean c'mon. This is like arguing which twin looks better. I honestly think the difference is negligible.

    I mean how can you say that this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcVHvh55bP0&feature=player_detailpage#t=34s isn't fast?

    or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R7NVAHW4Ro
     
  27. 10is

    10is Professional

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  28. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    Federer is explosive but does it in a way that suggests flowing water. Remember David Foster Wallace called his forehand a "great liquid whip". Nobody ever used those adjectives with Sampras.
     
  29. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    I am a ******* :lol:

    Sorry, dude, but not even close. Why would you pick examples from Fed's later year. He was much faster. Sampras was about as fast as Nadal is.
     
  30. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    You're telling us that Sampras was about as fast as this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgusk4Vn4Ek

    The only players that ecome close to Nadal's speed are Borg and Chang. Even Hewitt wasn't that fast and he surely was faster than Sampras.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  31. 10is

    10is Professional

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    He's right. If you people want to demonstrate Federer's peak athleticism why choose matches from his post-prime period?
     
  32. edberg505

    edberg505 Legend

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    LOL, well that about concludes this little colloquy.

    What I learned today. Pete Sampras = "Fastest Man Alive".
     
  33. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    Pretty sure Hewitt was at least as quick as Nadal. :lol:

    Also, you are massively underestimating guys like Monfils, Blake and Phau, if you think only Chang and Borg were on Nadal's level.

    Also, Nadal started really early, read Davydenko well.

    At least one has to admit that Sampras accelerated with the best of them. His 0-60 was unsurpassed.
     
  34. edberg505

    edberg505 Legend

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    Because that was 3 years ago and I thought he was pretty fast then. It is crazy how some people raise Sampras to deity like status, presumbably because they assume some probably didn't see him play. I've seen them both play. It kinda makes me wonder if in 15 years or so if people will be doing the same to Federer. Sure, I've seen Federer play. He was so fast he could beat Usain Bolt running backwards with a beer in both hands.
     
  35. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    Is it possible that you are overestimating Nadal's quickness? I already admitted that Nadal is a better athlete than Sampras ever was, since he had the at best equivalent speed but clearly inferior stamina.
     
  36. edberg505

    edberg505 Legend

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    Blasphemy, Pete could run rings around Hewitt. LOL. Yes, that statement is exploding with sarcasm.
     
  37. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    Seriously, I have been a ******* since forever. What is wrong in saying Sampras was as fast as Hewitt? It's like I compared him to Monfils. :lol:

    Maybe he was slower than Hewitt, but he certainly was faster than Federer.

    EDIT: If you don't like what I say, care to name some players Pete was faster than? :)
     
  38. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    So you use different standards for Federer (saying for instance that Sampras jumped higher) but completely ignore them in the Nadal-Sampras comparison as you give a walkover to Nadal? Well how do you prove that Nadal can jump as high as Sampras? I mean come on, you're losing it.

    If you base your final judgment on endunrace well what would you know I don't remember seeing Federer grasp for air once, I don't remember him losing a 5th set because he was tired, every time he was either outplayed or had a mental letdown. Sampras was dead tired in a 5th set a lot of the times, especially later on in his career.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  39. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    No to all of that, other than Monfils if you are talking on a track only (on a tennis court nowhere close).
     
  40. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    I don't think Nadal jumps as high as Sampras, but he is as fast or faster AND has much better stamina. Equal in one area and vastly superior in the other.

    However, Federer is clearly inferior in one area and vastly superior in the other which is why I thought of making this thread.

    What a terrible idea that was. :(
     
  41. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    Really? Blake not faster than Nadal. :lol:

    What do you think about Djokovic, does he compare to Nadal?
     
  42. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Ok, tell us again exactly what criteria you use to determine athleticism. Cause it seems to me that you just handed Nadal the "better athelete than Sampras" trophy without going through all the individual points (like you did in the Federer-Sampras comparison). Instead, you called Nadal a better athlete because he's faster than Sampras. I'd like to remind you that speed fills in like 1/10 of the full notion of what athleticism is. Among others you mentioned power, ain't that right?
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  43. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    No Blake is definitely not faster than Nadal. You seem to think any player who is very fast is as fast or faster than Nadal which is purely delusional. Even Blake didnt even try to outrun Nadal in their early matches, he knew his only hope to win was to outhit and that he did. Hewitt is faster than Blake but also not as fast as Nadal. Blake had great speed for someone who wasnt even a grinder or good defensive player overall, but that is it. Then again I am talking to someone who thinks Ana freaking Ivanovic had a more "powerful" forehand than Steffi Graf and served at 125 mph at her peak, LOL!

    Djokovic might be as fast as Nadal on hard courts only, definitely not on clay or grass IMO. I am talking peak Nadal, Nadal has already lost some speed with years of grinding and age.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2012
  44. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    His shots may be less powerful, but then against, he doesn't hit flat 99% of the time, so getting an estimation on his power from his shots is difficult.

    I think with Nadal, a comparison is really futile. He seems to be on a level of speed where I cannot say that Sampras is faster. He is more or less just as explosive as Sampras AND more enduring. Federer is also superior in endurance, but not in speed, acceleration, hence why it's not crystal clear with him.
     
  45. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    So who's got more power? Federer or Sampras? (just please don't tell me that Sampras' serve was 15 mph faster than Federer's cause that's a lie)
     
  46. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    You seem to be comparing only their shots. Most of the power from shots comes from technique, not strength. Just look at Justine Henin who probably would bench press the 250th most on the WTA tour yet was one of the hardest hitters at her peak. One just looks at Sampras and Federer and it would be a miracle if Federer was somehow physically stronger.

    Anyway as far as power goes I thought both at their best Sampras was considered the more explosive player overall. You talk about Federer having better groundstrokes, but that is based on alot of factors- angles, deception, variety, placement, directional control, consistency. Sampras's drive forehands were every bit as explosive, maybe even a bit more, even with Federer's being better overall. Sampras's serve was much more heavy and penetrating than Federer's no contest in that regard. You cant compare just by mph (which Sampras is a bit higher in on average anyway) since the mphs of serves have been rising greatly for reasons hard to explain, Brenda Schultz for instance serving at 130 mph to retake the womens serve speed World record in her mid 30s, way faster than she had ever managed in her prime, how toe explain that. Sampras's volleys and overheads also had more bite on them. Sampras in his era was considered one of it not the biggest overall hitter in the game. Federer was never considered the biggest overall hitter in the game. In his own era people talk about Soderling, Del Potro, Berdych as being bigger hitters.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2012
  47. dangalak

    dangalak Banned

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastest_recorded_tennis_serves#Women :)

    Also, maybe Blake didn't try to grind because he couldn't hit 10 consecutive shots into the court and was better off being aggressive, since he had incredible power and early ballstriking. Why on earth would he grind against Nadal in the first place? To allow him to pick on his backhand? :lol:
     
  48. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    So her fastest ever serve was 124 and this equates to hitting 125+ serves in her prime? :lol: By your logic I could say Nadal hits 135+ serves in his prime, since at the 2010 U.S Open he had some serves that reached 135. Ana has probably hit what, 6 serves in her career even over 120. Also if this isnt proof of the belief radar guns are juiced today I dont know what is, since even the blind can see Graf in her prime had a more powerful serve than the likes of Ivanovic (and I am no Graf fan btw, most on this forum regard me a Graf hater). BTW Graf herself was recording serves about 10 mph faster in 1999 as a gimpy old lady soon to retire, as she had been at her peak in 1995-1996, LOL!

    Try starting a poll who is faster Blake or Nadal and see how that turns out.
     
  49. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    LMAO!! so given that folks on this thread disagree with you 3:1, you do concede that Federer is the better athlete? seems like your "naked" eye needs some clothing.. btw, this very thread has some pictures that disagree with you that Sampras was the "far better" leaper.

    The way I see it, you started a thread with a poll, and you're throwing a tantrum now because the results disagree (by a vast margin) with your perception.
     
  50. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    What more data can I use? Federer hits his groundstrokes harder and consistently harder while Sampras would loop the backhand 3-4 times before going for a killer shot, serves just as fast (Sampras rarely hit his serve over 125 mph). I agree he has less sting on the volleys but that's expected as Sampras visited the net a lot more often than Federer did/does. You can't just say "one looks at them and thinks it would be a miracle if Federer was somehow physically stronger", it's just impossible to predict how they would fare in competition. Just because Fed doesn't have Schwarzenegger' stature it doesn't mean he's not stronger than Sampras.

    Once again, how do you rate explosiveness? Just because Sampras didn't grind his match as much as Federer does at times and went for a killer shot earlier it doesn't mean that he's more explosive. Is Del Potro more explosive than Federer as well?
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012

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