Big Pancho under-rated

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by BobbyOne, May 9, 2013.

  1. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Or they're both right and Hoad comment just reflects a change as Laver matured as a Pro...

    The only problems with Gonzalez is IMO he lesser number of major titles compared to Laver/Rosewall + his lack of a clay major (?). Otherwise his head to head records, testimonies on his peak play and length of domination clearly put him really high up.
     
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  2. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Gonzales didn't play in that many clay-court majors during his career.
     
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  3. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Doesn't seem like his game was built for clay anyway? Perhaps it's just a minor knock on him.
     
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  4. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NatF, Pancho's great plus are his seven big winning tours, arguably more worthy than 7 majors.

    Gonzalez was very strong also on clay. He beat holder Emerson in the 1968 French Open in the QFs when being 40...
     
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  5. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Could you explain these tours to me? How many did other greats have?

    I don't doubt that Gonzalez was good on clay, he made 2 pro major finals on clay. Weaker in comparison to Rosewall and Laver though.
     
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  6. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Gonzales is top-5 of all time.

    No doubt in my mind at all.
     
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  7. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    The big world pro tours were the most important and prestigious events in professional tennis right up until the early 1960s. It was the best professional against top challenger(s) in a series of head-to-head matches over many months. In 1954, Gonzales beat Segura, Sedgman and Budge on a 4-man tour. In 1956, Gonzales beat Trabert 74-27. In 1957, Gonzales beat Rosewall 50-26. In 1958, Gonzales beat Hoad 51-36. In 1959, Gonzales beat Hoad, Cooper and Anderson on a 4-man tour. In 1960, Gonzales beat Rosewall, Segura and Olmedo on a 4-man tour. In 1961, Gonzales won a multi-player tour involving Gimeno, Hoad, Sedgman, MacKay, Olmedo and Buchholz.

    Gonzales' phenomenal record in tournaments was the icing on the cake.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2013
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  8. Le Master

    Le Master Semi-Pro

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  9. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Mustard, Thanks for explaining the Gonzalez tours. I think that winning such a tour was arguably more than the equivalent of a major.

    Regarding other tours: Tilden won 2 or 3, lost several tours.

    Vines won 5 tours, lost one.

    Budge won 2 lost 2

    Kramer won all 4 he played

    Rosewall won one tour.ยด, lost 2
     
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  10. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NatF, Gonzalez won at least 17 clay tournaments. Not too bad. Among them the tough 1959 Toronto event.
     
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  11. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    That's impressive for sure, basically he dominated his rivals.

    So he was good on clay but lacking compared to other greats perhaps.
     
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  12. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NatF, I agree that Pancho was not as strong on clay as Rosewall, Laver and Segura were. But he was strong enough to win the US Clay twice and to beat Laver in 1966 by 6-4,6-2. In 1968 he defeated Rod 10-2 (pro set)...
     
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