Biomimetic 200 Lite Stiffness?

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by TimothyO, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Anyone have a definitive answer on this new racquet's stiffness rating?

    Dunlop says 63, TW says 57.

    Since the racquet only just started shipping did TW test pre-production prototypes? Will their data be updated?

    Or has Dunlop failed to manufacture their racquets to their own spec?

    I understand that TW averages a sample of racquets for their data so this discrepancy, if based on production models, is significant.
     
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  2. mp2002

    mp2002 Rookie

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    I'm really interested in this racquet. Has anyone hit with it? Sorry i can't speak much to the stiffness rating, but that does seem like a huge discrepancy.
     
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  3. klementine

    klementine Hall of Fame

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    The 'Miami-Vice' Lite!!!!!.....

    Any racquet with a flex rating under 59 always catches my attention...

    ... although doubt many players have demo'd this one, just based on appearence ... It looks as if it would glow-in-the-dark!!!!
     
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  4. mp2002

    mp2002 Rookie

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    I know. The PJ is a bit "out there" but the specs really interest me. I've been looking to go up to a 95 headsize recently and usually Dunlops QC is pretty good. Can it just be that Dunlop and TW rate stiffness on a slightly different scale? I would have to imagine that Dunlop took an average of multiple test racquets before releasing their stiffness rating.
     
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  5. TheBoom

    TheBoom Hall of Fame

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    I think that the pj is attractive and if the stick works for you and if you win with it no one will forget you lol :) but the stiffness looks pretty sweet to me to i'm iffy about the string pattern though
     
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  6. mp2002

    mp2002 Rookie

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    16x19. Right in my wheelhouse.
     
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  7. TheBoom

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    Yeah but i like 18x20 so i'm not sure because it would seem the head size makes it feel more firm which i like but i'd have to demo before i choose for my package next year....
     
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  8. mp2002

    mp2002 Rookie

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    Who knows. You may like 16x19 in a 95 headsize. Not that there's a HUGE difference between a 98 and 95, but the string pattern will be slightly denser overall.
     
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  9. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    - 95 sq in.
    - 16x19
    - 11.5 oz
    - 6 pts HL
    - Flex 57

    Sounds perfect to me too, if true! :) I love the starting balance point and the weight allows room for customization since I prefer something closer just over 12 oz. Even stock these numbers look attractive, especially in light of the flex.
     
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  10. Ten_nuts

    Ten_nuts Rookie

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    I have a couple of 4D 200 16x19 with stiffness 63, strung weight is 11.64 oz (no overgrip, no dampener). The head light seems to be 8 or 9 points. It has very low power. I strung with Luxilon Power Rough 16 MAIN at 49 lbs and Wilson NXT 16g CROSS at 52 lbs, and the other one was strung with Solinco Revo. 17g at 52 lbs full-bed. These setups provide great feels and a little power but not enough power, so i have to add 6g lead tape at 12. After adding lead tape, it feels more solid on groundstrokes, more power on the serves.
    The new Biomimetic 200 Lite has the same specs as the 4D 200 16x19 but the stiffness is only 57, correct me if i am wrong that the lower the stiffness the lesser the power? I like the low stiffness racquet so the new 200 Lite with stiffness only 57 is driving me crazy. Dunlop Website shows the specs of Dunlop Biomimetic 300 has stiffness 64, and it's correct to me cause i had a chance to hit with it and i could feel the stiffness from it. In this case, the Dunlop Website shows the stiffness for 200 Lite is 63, and TW has it 57? I think i trust the Dunlop Website more. WHy? TW lists the new Wilson BLX Blade 98 with stiffness 63, but many people had the frame measured and it came out 66 to 69. I had a chance to hit with the BLX Blade 98 and i could tell the frame's stiffness is a lot more than 63. I guess TW lists the specs slightly off the real specs for selling purposes. I wasted money to get the BLX Blade 98 with thinking in mind, the stiffness is only 63, but it's not. Like others usually say: lesson learned. I will always demo the frames i like before buying. In this case, i will also wait to demo the new Dunlop Biomimetic 200 Lite before buying.
     
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  11. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Ten_nuts, great info! Thanks!

    It's the low stiffness/low power rating (according to TW) on the 200 Lite that I find attractive when combined with the other specs. If it really is 63 then there's really nothing special about it relative to existing racquets with similar specs.

    I was a click or two away from ordering a demo from TW but I guess I'll wait until this gets cleared up.
     
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  12. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Just noticed that another big online sports retailer is listing a lower stiffness too (58 ).

    I wonder if they too do their own testing.

    EDIT: Never mind...just spoke with that online sports retailer who immediately called their contacts at Dunlop. Dunlop says 63 and doesn't understand where 57-58 is coming from. The other retailer says their website spec is a mistake and they're going to correct it.

    Darn!
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2011
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  13. Ten_nuts

    Ten_nuts Rookie

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    Thank you so much for such quick actions, TimothyO. I also thought 63 would make more sense than 57.
     
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  14. TheBoom

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    so much for flexability huh :(
     
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  15. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Update: another big and respected online retailer in the US is showing this frame at 7 pts HL and stiffness 57!!! A European online shop also shows 7 pts HL instead of TW's 6 pts.

    This other US retailer has also released a video review in which the players all comment on the frame's very soft feel and low power.

    Anyway, I've ordered a demo from TW. It shows up as being in stock, hopefully that's true. Like the outstanding BB London it appears the specs on the 200 lite are all over the place. Only way to find out is a demo!
     
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  16. Ten_nuts

    Ten_nuts Rookie

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    Good works TimothyO. Please let us know when you have a chance to hit with it. Thanks.
     
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  17. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    It doesn't feel remotely close to RA57. The figures on this racquet regarding flex are going to be deceptive IMO because its a heavily non-polarized racquet - the complete opposite of something like the PB10 for instance. The latter feels flexier than it actually is because of the weight distribution in the head and handle. Alot of weight of the 200 Lite is centred around the base of the hoop and throat. If you like that type of weight distributing then fine, but I felt that it needed some lead in the hoop at or above 3 and 9 otherwise you don't quite feel the upper part of the hoop through the arc of the swing. I do wonder whether Dunlop formed the base specs on the assumption that players will add some lead to the hoop.

    With the lead the flex feels similar - maybe fractionally but not much less - than the Biomimetic 100 (another solid racquet that doesn't feel 'flexy' despite the stated RA). The 200 Lite feels solid both in stock form, and with lead - a complete 'one piece construction' type of feel without any bend or wobble. It's solid and has no hint of hollowness.

    There is good feel of the ball through the frame, but I wouldn't I'd describe the frame as 'very soft feel' (though its a bit ambiguous as to what that phrase actually means). It is low powered though - a symptom of the lack of mass in the hoop. Again, some lead helps balance it. You can get a ton spin on the ball with some lead in the upper part of the hoop, even when the racquet is strung with a synth gut.

    If you want a solid feeling 16x19 'players' frame and you're prepared to add some lead to the hoop, and can handle the increased weight, its a definitely a racquet to demo.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2011
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  18. Ten_nuts

    Ten_nuts Rookie

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    Hi Torres, and you do have the Biomimetic 200 Lite, don't you? In my opinion, the 4D 200 16x19 is a very good frame if i added 8g lead tape at 12. And if the new version, Biomimetic 200 Lite, has the same specs than the 4D 200 16x19 (same stiffness too), then why would i bother to get the new version? I think the 4d 200 16x19 had better paint job. Anyway, i put away my thoughts on the Biomimetic 200 Lite. Now i am waiting to get the new Biomimetic 500 Tour.
     
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  19. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    ^^^ Yes, I have Bio 200 Lite. It's in the For Sale section. I bought it just to try it out, but I'm really a 18x20 flat hitter rather than a 16x19 type of person.
     
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  20. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Torres...how did you string it and how was the comfort?
     
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  21. BobFL

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    I played today with 200L. Great frame! It was super-forgiving and the ss felt huge. The stiffness index is 63 and it feels exactly like that. Serves were effortless...
     
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  22. JGads

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    The paintjob is so bad, it's good. Like, I like it in the way that old-school-ugly sports jerseys are suddenly 'cool' again when the teams bring them back out - like in baseball, when the Padres wear their old jerseys or something. Or they remind me of the super shiny but kind of awesome Denver Nuggets uniforms.

    I don't know if this post makes any sense.
     
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  23. TheBoom

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    Did the string pattern bug you at all?
     
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  24. BobFL

    BobFL Hall of Fame

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    No, not in the slightest. I am '18x20' man but with this particular racquet I have experienced zero issues. Directional control was exceptional and that is pretty much the first thing that is affected by an open string patterns (in my case that is).
     
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  25. TheBoom

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    Interesting, would you say it is similar or not to the 300 tour?
     
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  26. BobFL

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    They are very different frames. I didn't like the 300T one bit and I really liked 200L hence I can be considered "biased" towards the 200L. Please take whatever I say with a pinch of salt...
     
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  27. TheBoom

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    Ok so it obviously offered great control how was the stability and spin?
     
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  28. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Strung it with Gosen as its a neutral performing string at 57lbs. It's a comfortable racquet in the sense that its not stiff.
     
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  29. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Torres!

    I'm starting to wonder if all these discrepencies are due to a simple typo that nobody is willing to admit (except for one online retailer).

    Did TW also make a typo? They have in the past and never fixed the problem. (eg DNX 10 shows 12 and 7 pts HL in TW online catalog depending if you view through compare function or racquet specs...YIKES!)
     
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  30. Ten_nuts

    Ten_nuts Rookie

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    Hi TimothyO, and i think it's not a typo. I brought this stiffness of 57 for the new Dunlop 200 Lite in the TW ask questions Forum, and Spencer (1 of the play testers of TW Review) confirmed that the stiffness is 57. Guess what? I didn't trust him. Lucky i didn't. Now we have BobFL confirmed that the stiffness of 63 was there when hitting. Thanks, BobFL. With the new price for Dunlop Biomimetic 200 Lite, i can get 2 frames of 4D 200 16x19. Maybe i'll wait to get the Dunlop Biomimetic 500 Tour. Thank you all for great info.
     
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  31. BobFL

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    Stability was simply great. Spin was average and I would like to add that it was strung with the Silk. I think that the spin would be better with some nice co-poly...

    Regarding the stiffness: While I was playtesting the 200L I had 2 other racquets with me: Donnay Black 94 and ProKennex Black Ace 98. I personally measured them and both of them were 58. Now, the 200L didn't play nowhere near that number. Imo, the 200L was clearly stiffer in play.
     
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  32. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    Bob - are you leaning towards any of those 3?
     
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  33. BobFL

    BobFL Hall of Fame

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    ProKennex is my racquet of choice. I was demoing the other 2 just for fun...

    PS too bad that the pallets are falling apart :( I am gonna have to call TW support and ask for the advice..
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2011
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  34. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    always good to know how other racquets play. was looking at the BA 93 since hitting with your 98 last time.
     
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  35. BobFL

    BobFL Hall of Fame

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    Great racquet but I cannot believe what is going on with the pallets :( They started to creak after 10 minutes of play and one pallet is already broken :(
     
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  36. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    UPDATE!

    This racquet is cursed by internet catalog typo errors!

    :)

    Yet another online retailer posted the frame's specs with a stiffness of 60!

    So I called them and they looked at the actual frame. Dunlop printed 63 on the frame itself.

    So, maybe:

    1. Dunlop intended a stiffness of 63, screwed up, and the frame is coming out of their factories softer and thus TW's tested value of 57

    2. TW messed up their test OR entered the incorrect data and the value really is 63 per Dunlop's info

    Or maybe, per BobFL's experience, the frames are defective and TW's lower tested stiffness is one symptom of that defect?

    I wish TW would maybe retest and confirm, perhaps as part of their upcoming review process.
     
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  37. BobFL

    BobFL Hall of Fame

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    I have tried gazillion racquets and I do have the ability to 'sense' them. People can opt either to believe me or to ignore my posts. I will say it again: to me, the 200L played exactly like its printed stiffness would suggest: firm but not stiff. My ProKennex is soft and I can feel the flex when I hit hard or when I block big serve. With the 200L I was not able to feel flex but the racquet was super-comfy.

    ProKennex BA98 (59) <--> Dunlop BM 200L (63) <--> Dunlop BM600 (70)

    Soft <--> Firm <--> Stiff
     
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  38. TheBoom

    TheBoom Hall of Fame

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    So what rackets can you compare it to? a prestige pro?
     
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  39. BobFL

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    Believe it or not, after playing a set with it my first thought was: Microgel Instinct! It felt exactly like Instinct stiffness wise. Another racquet that comes to mind is Dunlop Aerogel 300T. I used to play with YTPP and as far as I remember, the Pro played stiffer...
     
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  40. OldButGame

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    Ditto here,..PJ aside,...(I'd struggle with that just a little...)...those specs are appealing...except for me,..like Boom,...I'd be lookin for 18x20,...:neutral:
     
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  41. ManuGinobili

    ManuGinobili Hall of Fame

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    I have both the Black Ace 98 and (well, had) the 200 lite. Frankly nothing in this world can come close to the butterness of the ProKennex. However I felt a very nice flex in the Dunlop, and it's quite arm friendly (I have nagging wrist tendinitis so it's pretty easy to tell).
     
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  42. BobFL

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    Hey Manuuuuu! :) My favorite player by far! ;)

    Please tell me where exactly you were able to feel the flex: the throat, lower hoop, upper hoop, uniformly distributed? I couldn't feel the flex, just a super-nice firm feel with great feel and comfort....
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2011
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  43. freshhh

    freshhh New User

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    ManuGinobili, BobFL & others, could you please compare the Dunlop Biomimetic 200 Lite and those racquets:

    Head YOUTEK IG Prestige S
    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Head_YOUTEK_IG_Prestige_S/descpageRCHEAD-HYIPS.html

    Head YOUTEK Instinct
    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Head_YOUTEK_Instinct/descpageRCHEAD-YTINST.html

    There might be something wrong as well with the Head YOUTEK Instinct stiffness, it's listed at TW RA63 but elsewhere it's listed at RA68. It seems also there is also limited edition (same color) with same specs RA68...


    ---

    Please review:

    stiffness:
    maneuverability:
    stability (hard hitters, volleys, serve returns):
    control:
    power (groundstrokes & defensive shots):
    spin:
    sweetspot (large and location):

    I've a 1HBH so I guess a thin racquet and small head size (95 sq. in. / 612.9 sq. cm) like the Dunlop 200 Lite could be better for me but Head d30 & Innegra (IG) technologies sound interesting and effective...
     
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