Birthdays of Tier 1 and 2 greats - shocking coincidence

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by falstaff78, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. falstaff78

    falstaff78 Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    820
    Location:
    UK
    Morning all.

    Been cranking out some stats about ages of Major, M1000 and WTC/TMC winners (which I'll post eventually). In the meanwhile I came across a shocking coincidence.

    Some (and only some!) people on the boards seem to accept that Sampras, Laver and Fed are tier 1 greats, with Rafa and Borg in tier 2 just behind them. Whether you subscribe to that view or not, take a look at their birthdays!!!

    Tier 1
    P. Sampras - 12 Aug
    R. Laver - 9 Aug
    R. Federer - 8 Aug

    Tier 2
    B. Borg - 6 Jun
    R. Nadal - 3 Jun

    (P.S. I get that there's no real so-what here - its just a nice coincidence. And the order above isn't a ranking - it's just alphabetical by first name)
     
    #1
  2. axel89

    axel89 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,161
    interesting but a poor thread
     
    #2
  3. Magnetite

    Magnetite Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    Messages:
    906
    My birthday is on August 10th, right in the middle of tier one. I must be the greatest.

    Or the 'GOAT', if you will.
     
    #3
  4. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    28,707
    Location:
    Brave New World
    You might throw in Henin and *cough* Davydenko *cough* June 1 and 2.

    November 27th, that's when the big stud was born.
     
    #4
  5. North

    North Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    936
    My birthday is August 8. If only I could channel Roger when I play - recreational GOAT lol. :)
     
    #5
  6. The Meat

    The Meat Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,998
    Also interesting is that 3/10 of the top 10 players of all time have R as their first letter of their name.
     
    #6
  7. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,843
    Location:
    Salvador, Bahia - Brazil
    Thanks. I'll make sure to have great times with my wife in late November/early december.
     
    #7
  8. North

    North Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    936
    Actually, there are more babies born in August than any other month. September is 2nd in birth frequencies.
     
    #8
  9. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,843
    Location:
    Salvador, Bahia - Brazil
    December is the month of vacations, so that's the time span for confecting the babies.
     
    #9
  10. falstaff78

    falstaff78 Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    820
    Location:
    UK
    contradiction, little bit?
     
    #10
  11. Fiji

    Fiji Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,970
    Interesting. You have to be born either in August or June to end up being Tier 1 or Tier 2 respectively. Not only that but near August 8-12 or near June 3-6.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
    #11
  12. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    3,446
    Location:
    A bloke in Brighton, England.
    im not having borg in 'tier two' for a start but i wont mention that though :twisted:..

    talking of tier two mats wilander was b. aug 22nd sooo in he goes into the burfdayy mix and what have we got... errmmmm :confused::confused:

    then connors has to be born just in september just to mess things up..the big git (sept 2nd)

    actually the similarities between borg n nadals burfdays and career arcs are spookily similar.. born almost exactly 30yrs apart..amazing on clay..same no of majors at similar age ..(11majors age 25borg, 26nadal)..borg age 26 abandoned tennis, nadal age 26..well..ermmm..oh no lets not go there :neutral:

    ive lost the plot in here, big time..bye.
     
    #12
  13. Fiji

    Fiji Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,970
    Wilander is Tier 4.

    Tier 1
    Federer
    Laver
    Sampras

    Tier 2

    Borg
    Nadal

    Tier 3
    Lendl
    Connors
    Agassi
    McEnroe

    Tier 4

    Wilander
    Edberg
    Becker
    Djokovic
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
    #13
  14. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    2,540
    I think Borg and Nadal should be Tier 1 Open Era, then the other guys all move up a Tier (Lendl et al Tier 2, Wilander et al Tier 3).

    Also I wouldn't include Laver among Open Era greats, if you do, you have to include Rosewall and Newcombe on your list as well.
     
    #14
  15. North

    North Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    936
    I always figured it had to do with the fact that it starts to get colder by December so people snuggle more.:wink:
     
    #15
  16. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,843
    Location:
    Salvador, Bahia - Brazil
    Colder in the north hemisphere... Here in south is hot as hell.
     
    #16
  17. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    8,722
    My birthday is August 8th, Fed's birthday. How come I'm not a GOAT contender?
     
    #17
  18. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,843
    Location:
    Salvador, Bahia - Brazil
    Do you have a one hander?
     
    #18
  19. underground

    underground Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    6,885
    It's Leos. Leos are GOATs.
     
    #19
  20. kOaMaster

    kOaMaster Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,957
    Location:
    Basel/Switzerland
    I guess you aren't a father or more yet - or just bad at maths?
    try counting backwards the months beginning with august and then think again.

    (btw, I was born 6.8.86 ;) or american 8/6/86)

    and I've got a 1HBH - in badminton :D
     
    #20
  21. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,669
    Shouldn't there be an * next to Nadal's name?


    :twisted:
     
    #21
  22. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,843
    Location:
    Salvador, Bahia - Brazil
    Fortunately I'm not a father yet, but I'm assuming that not all babies are born with the exact time span of 9 months ;)
     
    #22
  23. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,444
    Not only that but -

    Sampras 12th Aug 1971, Federer 8th Aug 1981
    Borg 6th June 1956, Nadal 3rd June 1986

    So Federer born 3 days short of 10 years after Sampras, Nadal born 3 days short of 30 years after borg.
     
    #23
  24. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,703
    Why is Sampras Tier 1 and Rafa Tier 2? How can someone without a career slam be Tier 1?
     
    #24
  25. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    28,798
    Location:
    Tuning Up The Band...
    Im a leo :)
     
    #25
  26. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    2,808
    By having 3 more Grand Slams, 5 more TMC, 184 more #1 weeks, and 4 more YE#1s. But I agree, Sampras is tier 2. Federer is alone in tier 1.
     
    #26
  27. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,587
    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    most of all great hockey players are born in the first few months of the year. something to do with giving them the opportunity to get into development programs at a younger age in a sport that's played in the winter. i'm thinking that it has a similar parallel to tennis.

    i'm doing a terrible job explaining, perhaps someone else who has read Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers would do a better job explaining. it lists different examples where we think a person's success was a direct correlation with his or her skills, but goes on to show, that there are a lot of variables that play the part, like in the instance of hockey, and possibly tennis, where top athletes have trained since their youth and where a child's birth month could determine how soon they got into the best programs.
     
    #27
  28. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,587
    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    here's the link to a pdf of Gladwell's outliers. it shows how canadian hockey players in the past's birth months could affect how good they became.
    it's very similar to the parallels the OP is getting at.

    http://247best.weebly.com/uploads/5/5/2/4/5524897/gladwell_malcolm_-_outliers_the_story_of_success.pdf

    read the last paragraph of section 1 that starts halfway down page 16 and ends on page 17. then skip down to section 3 on page 20 where the correlations between birth months and skill are given. very interesting stuff.

    here's an excerpt from the writing where Gladwell uses the findings of canadian psychologist Roger Barnsley:
    and i know a lot of us are joking around in this thread with the notion of being born in august and automatically being GOATs ourselves. but in the case of these pros, where the've trained and competed to be the best at a very young age, any sort of edge over the competition helps, and the difference between good pros and GOATs could very well be a few months.
     
    #28
  29. falstaff78

    falstaff78 Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    820
    Location:
    UK
    nice one mate!
     
    #29
  30. falstaff78

    falstaff78 Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    820
    Location:
    UK
    Assuming the question was directed at myself. As I said in OP, the thread wasn't about the tiering - goodness knows I wouldn't want to try and pick that particular gordian knot apart - I was merely observing a coincidence according to the tier definitions that SOME people settle upon....

    :)
     
    #30
  31. falstaff78

    falstaff78 Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    820
    Location:
    UK
    Brilliant! I've actually read the book and was thinking about bringing this up after reading some people's replies. Glad you posted this!
     
    #31
  32. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,285
    Location:
    In the place where there is no darkness.
    #32
  33. ark_28

    ark_28 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    4,102
    Location:
    England/USA
    And! Pete won his first Wimbledon in 1993 Federer in 2003
    And first Australian in 1994 Roger in 2004!
     
    #33
  34. falstaff78

    falstaff78 Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    820
    Location:
    UK
    Guys

    What is the easiest way to upload an image? I have cranked out some numbers and want to upload a graph. Is there anyway around posting a URL?

    Thanks,
    F
     
    #34
  35. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,587
    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    yeah, it was a great read. i'm glad you've read it. i'm interested to know what info you'd collected. this stuff could very well pertain to tennis, or at least provide a different perspective to a lot of the GOAT talks or provide insight to why some juniors make it while others don't.

    i've read it as a reading assignment from my art prof. he especially emphasized the 10,000 hour rule to us, considering we were/still are young artists. i've enjoyed the little correlations and parallels i've come across since, and they seem to be easier to grasp now knowing that some of the greatest people in history are just as much a product of circumstance as they are of their own skill.

    i used to be more on the side of believing in the idea of innate talent, though i've often questioned it. while the writing has confirmed that a workman like work ethic isn't a guarantee for success, it also somewhat dispelled the idea of innate talent or the brilliant genius to me.
     
    #35
  36. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,587
    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    the simplest way is to upload the image on tinypic.
    copy the link for message boards and forums. eg. [​IMG]
    go to the reply box in your thread
    paste the url directly
     
    #36
  37. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    5,298
    Another striking coincidence to note from trier one greats

    They all happen to be men
     
    #37
  38. falstaff78

    falstaff78 Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    820
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks a lot!
     
    #38
  39. falstaff78

    falstaff78 Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    820
    Location:
    UK
    I completely agree with you! If you are interested in this topic you MUST read "Talent is overrated" by Geoff Colvin.

    I also used to believe in innate blinding talent until I read outliers and the colvin book. Now my conception of talent is something different - talent is (i) the propensity to want to put in the time and effort to be world class, (ii) the intelligence to learn better from time and effort expended, and of course (iii) physical characteristics. e.g. being 6'1" is better for being a tennis player than being 5'8"!!!

    Anyway re: the other info, I'm about to post it in another thread. It's a distribution of ages of all Major Finalists in the open era, and some conclusions which I draw from the data.
     
    #39
  40. ark_28

    ark_28 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    4,102
    Location:
    England/USA
    [​IMG]

    John Isner is born in April! Isner beat Federer and Djokovic last year the best two players in the world :)
     
    #40
  41. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    9,768
    Location:
    Minneapolis, North of the Wall
    Sadly, my bday is Aug 30, the same as roddick.

    then again, he won a major so Ill take it.
     
    #41
  42. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    28,707
    Location:
    Brave New World
    #42
  43. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,267
    Location:
    Wales
    I always thought this would be true. I heard another example a few years ago that was just about schooling, but I figure it's relevant to this discussion as well.

    Two identical twins born within minutes of each other, but one before midnight and the other after midnight (i.e. two separate birth dates). Turns out they ended up being born either side of the cut off date to decide which year they would be in school, resulting in them being split up with the one-day-older twin being in the year above, and younger in the year below.

    As it happened, the elder twin struggled with his studies while the younger one excelled, due to the younger one having an extra year's worth of brain development from being held back an extra year. It was the same in PE classes (or gym classes for non brits), with the younger twin benefiting from an extra year's worth of physical development.

    Despite being being born only minutes apart.
     
    #43
  44. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,267
    Location:
    Wales
    As it happens I'm a December baby, so I spent year watching relatives give my sisters & cousins presents on birthday's and Christmases, while I would be bestowed the honour of the combined present.

    I'm not bitter about it.


    ...
     
    #44
  45. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    2,803
    bdays does nt matter i was born on the same date, month and year as messi , one of them is the world champion :D
     
    #45
  46. stringertom

    stringertom G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    11,921
    Location:
    In a sureshsian vortex
    My sister's b-day is December 27th...still hasn't gotten over it 65 years later. This contributed in a large fashion to the many "joyous" holiday seasons experienced as a youth by me in our lovely, dysfunctional family.

    Good luck in adapting!
     
    #46
  47. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    ****, so that's why I'm so bad. Feb 11 :(
     
    #47
  48. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    I need to see some proof to believe this; no school is so set in stone that they'd make such a ridiculous decision.
     
    #48
  49. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,587
    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    don't sell yourself short. :) perhaps you could have been world champion too, if you grew up on football in the same way messi did.
     
    #49
  50. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    12,732
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    I share the same birthday as Guillermo Coria and like him, I have never beaten Gaston Gaudio in the final of Roland Garros. Uncanny or what? ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
    #50

Share This Page