Bo Jackson vs Roger Federer comparison on ESPN

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Tennis_Monk, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    Greatest football players: Bo Jackson's name doesn't come up
    Greatest Baseball players: Bo Jackson's name doesn't come up

    Greatest Tennis Players: Roger Federer's name comes up

    Greatest Networks : ESPN name doesn't come up!
     
  2. Sumo

    Sumo Semi-Pro

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    This is funny seeing as your'e doing the exact same thing you're accusing me of.

    I'll never pretend to know it all, I'm old enough to know better, just adding discussion points from personal experience that most here don't have and wouldn't consider.

    Play a rugby game in a tight 5 position, and tell me contact doesn't make a difference. It'll be the worst day of your life, followed by the 2nd and 3rd worst days of your life.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
  3. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    Waaaaay wrong..........unless you have strapped on 20+ lbs of pads - often in the heat - or even brutal sub zero cold.......then have the fact you are getting hit even when you don't have the ball.....if you have never put on pads and tried to run, catch or throw a football you have no idea how hard it is.

    Most NFL players after a Sunday game the next morning can barely move......the impact force the avg NFL running back, defensive back and linebacker endure is off the charts.

    There is a reason why the average NFL career is like 3.2 yrs !
     
  4. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    I keep proving it with every post, huh? That's weird, because that was the very first post I made about the topic.

    Everyone gets it, man. Bo Jackson was a freak athlete. Still, when you define athlete as "skill in a sport" it's ridiculous to say that the most accomplished tennis player of all time can't compare. It would be like saying someone was a way better athlete than Michael Jordan. Maybe they could run faster/bench press 220 for more reps, etc. but can you really say they were, without a shadow of a doubt, more skilled than the consensus best of all time? No.

    You keep calling everyone ignorant, but, really, it's just a matter of you refusing to look at the issue from any point of view that differs slightly from how you first interpreted it.

    Clearly, you watched "You Don't Know Bo," were super impressed, and now don't want to listen to anyone else's viewpoints.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
  5. PhilStar!

    PhilStar! Rookie

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    Bo Jackson's name doesn't come up because he was injured by some desperate tackler who threw the whole kitchen sink on him to take him down.

    Had Rafa Nadal launch a forehand shot into Roger Federer's eye at the net during their 2004 Miami Open, We would still be talking about Pete Sampras as the greatest of all time.
     
  6. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    and that's only in matches not featuring djokovic or rafa. the breaks are longer if a match has one or the other headlining. god forbid both.
     
  7. The Meat

    The Meat Hall of Fame

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    In that timeframe of sports history, steroids were being used and rarely detected.

    Even if he was proven negative, I still wouldn't think he was the greatest sportsmen of all time. He would certainly rank in the top 10, with no one taking the first spot.
     
  8. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    if bo jackson would have spent his youth running away from kids who teased him instead of hurling rocks at them, he may have had a chance to be as successful of a juicer as carl lewis.
     
  9. thisiscrazy

    thisiscrazy Rookie

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    From a major leaguer? Because I doubt you made contact.

    There's even a stark drop off between MLB and AAA pitchers. So making contact (much less getting a hit) off a high school or college player is no comparison.
     
  10. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    +1. Bo was a god at two sports. Fed 1. Pretty easy choice. Love Fed, but facts are facts.
     
  11. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    Jackson wasn't a God at baseball. He had crazy power, but he led the league in strikeouts one season. His amazing athletic abilities coupled with his early exit from sports have made him almost like a myth. Although he was incredible he wasn't an elite baseball player.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
  12. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    He was the best running back in the National Football League for a time.
     
  13. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    Jim Thorpe>Bo Jackson in versatility department across sports
     
  14. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Think whatever you want but you should research a little more before you talk about the voted greatest athlete ever, because obviously you did not know anything about him. But you are so in love with fed that is all you need, because when you try to compare fed to bo athletically it is ridiculous.
     
  15. Ginger ninja

    Ginger ninja Semi-Pro

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    It's American tv, in their world some mid ranking reliever for the pittsburgh pirates is a greater athlete than usain bolt....ie if you're not American, you ain't rated.
     
  16. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Ya its just american tv, bo jackson was nothing really, its pretty funny how close he came to bolts speed without even training for track. But I am sure that is just american tv again.
     
  17. Sumo

    Sumo Semi-Pro

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    I am a huge Bo fan, but he never came close to anything Bolt can do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
  18. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Would you consider this close?

    As a freshman in college, Bo Jackson ran the 100 meter .3 seconds SLOWER than Usain Bolt at the Olympics this past year. AND HES 235 POUNDS.

    edit: slower not faster
    Last edited by rafafan20 : 03-29-2013 at 08:44 PM.
     
  19. Zildite

    Zildite Hall of Fame

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    Bolt ran 9.63 at the last Olympics, isn't Bo's best 10.39?
     
  20. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Bo's best was 10.44.

    Comparing him to Usain is just ridiculous. A better comparison would be that Bo ran a 100 meter .05 seconds faster than the fastest woman, Florence Griffith-Joyner, who ran a 10.49 100 meter in 1988...which is, of course, extremely impressive!..but comparing him to Usain when he was so far away from the 10 second barrier, which 83 men have broken in history, is ridiculous.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-second_barrier
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
  21. Sumo

    Sumo Semi-Pro

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    I've never seen anything saying he has run under 10.
     
  22. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Bo Jackson was an extremely gifted and talented athlete who excelled in two very difficult sports, football and baseball. He could have also been a track star. Yet, the skills that are required for for football, baseball, track, and tennis are very different, but do have some things in common. They are all very difficult sports. Yet, to expect to have some sort of agreement when comparing such different sports and when considering something as nebulous as "greatness". Just what exactly does one mean by that? Roger Federer is a much more accomplished athlete than Bo Jackson, but Bo Jackson exhibited great athleticism in two difficult sports. He was a phenomenon, but so are athletes like Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Borg, Lendl, Sampras, Laver, etc.

    Tennis is quite unique in that it is an individual sport, played outdoors, played year round, while being very international. It's extremely competitive at most every level in all the tennis playing nations. It requires great footspeed, quickness, as well as top speed, agility and stamina, eye hand coordination, and tremendous skill. You can't take short cuts with tennis. There is no place to hide weaknesses, and even great players must lose often and then constantly retain confidence and win difficult matches soon thereafter. There is no way to avoid endless hours of skill refinement on top of all the purely athletic requirements of tennis. Tennis is one tough sport. In my opinion, it's the greatest sport there is.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  23. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    Exactly, we don't talk about Monica Seles

    Exactly, Monica Seles get left out because she was attacked and wasn't able to reach her full potential.

    I would say all professional athletes are extremely gifted, ambitious people with extraordinary abilities. So you can't say this guy would have been great but for the injury.

    Lance Armstrong & Greg LeMond - came back from injury to win - that why we call them great.

    Bo, Sadly wasn't able to make it back - didn't win anything....to be great you have to win something! Herschel Walker - great guy probably can out run Bo...what happened collected a lot of money and didn't win anything! OJ Simpson great runner - did he win anything? No...not great!
     
  24. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    "What we're analyzing are categories like quickness, agility, speed, strength, power, endurance, durability, performance under pressure. We're looking for the real athlete, not just the player."

    Championships, performance under pressure, etc. are included, but are among many other factors. It is basically about athleticism, not winning, or guys like Edwin Moses or the Khans would be the top.
     
  25. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    "international trolls" and fedfanboys are pickle smoochers.



    Bo by a 'country' mile


    __________________
     
  26. Chanwan

    Chanwan Legend

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    "Do you people understand that Bo Jackson set records in high jump pole vault and hurdles in HIGH SCHOOL WITHOUT TRAINING. "

    Can you be more specific about those records? State records? National records? World records? What where the times/heights at what age?

    And in advance - how do these records mean that he could win gold medals (I presume you mean Olympic or World Championship Gold medals) in FOUR different track sports (Here, I will add that no track athlete - at least post 1950, maybe ever - has won gold medals in high jump and pole vault at the same time. Not to mention one of the above combined with hurddles.

    Full disclosure: I am one of those Europeans, who had never even heard of Bo Jackson prior to this ESPN thing. But afterwards, I saw an interview with him, where he said, he jumped (if I remember correctly) 13 feet, the first time he pole vaulted. Now that is very impressive. But it doesn't equate to him training and learning to jump 19-20 feet.
     
  27. Frying Pan Forehand

    Frying Pan Forehand Rookie

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    If he would have been any good outside US media then surely a person interested in sports would know of him.
    I never heard of him... keep your biased media US.
     
  28. Chanwan

    Chanwan Legend

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    So essentially, it's the multisport thing? He could have, would have, should have done this and that had he NOT done both sports?

    Where does this guy rank? Basketball player who wins high jump after a year of training? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Thomas_(athlete)


    I DO see that Bo was great. But just how great? I haven't seen any posts about his different results in decathlon. How high and long did he jump? (long, high, pole), ( How far did he throw (in shot put, in discus, in javelin)? Winning a state championship (that is what he did right?) in high school is great, but it can also be due to Bo having a grown man's physique at an early age. It doesn't mean he could have won it for grown ups on a national level - much less international level.

    And it doesn't mean, he could surely have been a pro decathlete (or track athlete) – though there's a chance - much less that he could have won anything in it.

    And as far as I get, he didn't win that much of significance in any of the sports he ended up doing (MVP and Heisman, yes, but is that –- together with being a pro in two different sports and being good at track in high school - really his claim to fame?)

    BTW - if we are this expressed with Bo because of his ability to be a great track, baseball and football star, what about Pele?

    I've read he was great at long jump, high jump and 100 meter. And as opposed to Bo, he's universally regarded as one of the two best players ever to play his chosen sport.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  29. Chanwan

    Chanwan Legend

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    Well done...
     
  30. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    This whole thread, you've been displaying the straw-man argumentative fallacy.

    You've been assigning a position to the other side and then disproving THAT. Not what we've actually said.

    No one disagrees that Jackson could run faster, jump higher, throw farther, etc. Once again, though, it's about SKILL in SPORTS. Not raw physical abilities.

    To say the greatest tennis player of all time is NOT EVEN CLOSE to a guy who had a .240 batting average and led the league in strikeouts is insane.
     
  31. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    I agree with that.

    A better apples-to-apples comparison would be seeing how Federer as a tennis player stacks up against Babe Ruth as a baseball player... or Gretzky as an ice hockey player.

    Those might actually be fun comparisons.
     
  32. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    This!! ^^^
     
  33. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    Ah ha! So because YOU claim not to know him, that answers any and all questions about Bo Jackson? I think it only shows that you're biased as well. Think I'll turn on Eurosport and watch a bunch of juiced up guys in Spandex riding bicycles :cool: -- "z-z-z-z"

    Fixed it for you.
     
  34. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    It was probably an American named Lance Armstrong

    You were probably looking at Lance Armstrong - the juiced up American!
     
  35. TJfederer16

    TJfederer16 Hall of Fame

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    I have never heard of Bo Jackson as well and i bet a good majority of people in the UK and most other countries don't have a clue as well, mainly because baseball is just a terrible sport and is another 'American' sport that nobody cares about other than Americans. I have never even seen it on any channels on tv over here. Roger is a millions times more well known worldwide than someone like Bo Jackson and in a more globally renowned sport than is a lot more technically difficult.
     
  36. thisiscrazy

    thisiscrazy Rookie

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    If bashing Americans makes you feel good, at least pick a sport that isn't popular with just Americans. Baseball is very popular in Latin America, some South American countries and East Asia. You do know there are other sports outside of the UK, right? I mean, ignorance is one thing, but pure stupidity is really something else.
     
  37. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Baseball is very popular in Japan, Mexico, and a few South American countries.

    Just because you are utterly ignorant about baseball doesn't mean it is a "terrible sport" that is only for Americans. You are no different than those clowns who don't know anything about tennis and declare it to be a sissy sport because there is no contact.

    Oh, and it is very debatable whether tennis is more technically difficult than learning to throw a baseball or develop a great swing.Again, you are just the polar opposite of these Bo-fanboys.

    And since when did popularity have anything to do with athleticism. Why don't we just call Ronaldo and Messi the best athletes on the planet and be done with it?
     
  38. TJfederer16

    TJfederer16 Hall of Fame

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    im generalising but i just mean its not a global sport like tennis, people seem to be getting really surprised at how many of us don't know who Bo Jackson is well that is why, i have never even watched a game of baseball on tv in my life and have never even seen it on and don't know a single baseball player. It just annoys me when someone you have no clue about is suddenly this incredible sporting god who can run almost as fast as usain bolt, pole vault and be the best baseball player and better than Roger and all this and yet and have never heard his name mentioned anywhere.
     
  39. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    If you would have seen the show on espn you would have known it was who was the greatest athlete of all time. Thats right athlete which your boy fed is not even close to Bo jackson.
     
  40. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    This poll dealt exclusively with athleticism. That is why Bo Jackson beat out Michael Jordan and Muhammad Ali. They were trying to take everything into account I guess: strength, speed, endurance, track and field events. Maybe by their definition of athleticism, Bo Jackson was the best.

    I'm one of those people who believes that athleticism is not just about raw physical attributes; skill is very important in my book. I don't agree that Michael Jordan's incredible muscle memory, which allowed him to make clutch shots with beautiful efficiency, does not count as athleticism. Or Federer's incredible ability to calculate the tracjectory of the incoming ball, take several quick side steps, and then crush a perfect forehand winner out of nowhere is not athleticism .

    To me, it makes no sense to separate skill from athleticism.
     
  41. Sumo

    Sumo Semi-Pro

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    A lot of the same things could've said about tennis because it's a rich person sport.

    Also, Bo was a pro in the late 80's early 90's, making it 20+ years since he competed. That could explain why a lot of non-Americans haven't heard of him.
     
  42. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    The precision hand-eye coordination of Phil Taylor, greatest dartsman of all time, the phenomenal timing and light-footedness of Mikhail Baryshnikov, groundbreaking modern ballet dancer, the unrivaled accuracy and strategy of Earl Anthony, consensus bowler of the 20th century.

    They each dominated their sports more than Federer ever did, and since skill is a form of athleticism, surely you must concede they are at least as equally valid candidates for 'greatest athlete ever' as Federer is.
     
  43. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    I don't know much about Ballet to comment, but Bowling and darts?

    That is such a ridiculous comparison. It might not be a 40 yard dash, but what I described Federer doing was an athletic feat. It required tremendous footwork, coordination, and balance to pull off; Federer's entire body was engaged in the motion. If you seriously think tennis is on the same level as bowling and darts then I don't even know what to say to you.

    Just incredible. Tennis talent is now comparable to darts and bowling. Baron Davis was watching Federer at the 2009 US Open and the thing he was most impressed with was Federer's natural athletic ability; in particular, he talked Federer's footwork and ability to move effortlessly around the court. He always said that he can see Federer excelling in numerous sports based on his athletic ability, but he is probably just a clown from TT forums who has the audacity to praise Federer's athletic ability (as you pointed out in your first post in this thread).
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  44. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    LOL at bowling and dart. Why not throw in billiard too.

    Table tennis is more reasonable and I don't even believe it deserve to be in a conversation.
     
  45. Dear Djordje

    Dear Djordje Rookie

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    What about the 4th metric - PEDs?
     
  46. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    You've already conceded Federer is not the best raw sprinter or endurance performer, not the strongest athlete and not the toughest. You've also concluded that domination of a particular sport and its records is more important than professional level achievement in two or more vastly different sports. The fact that Bo Jackson, for example, played in team sports and unfortunately happened not to be on championship teams--teams in baseball and football are huge and no one player can single-handedly win a title aside--means we must discount him and others like him.

    We are then left to ask, what rivals does Federer have for this honour? Well, comparables have to: 1. Dominate their respective sport, 2. Display outstanding timing, precision, accuracy and hand-eye co-ordination vis-a-vis their respective sport.

    Phil Taylor and Earl Anthony have Federer beaten on criterion #1, and are at least on par with him on criterion #2.

    You could make the case that bowling and darts are "easier" since they require no running and little strength, but contrarily one could equally contend that because those sports present very few physical barriers to entry, they draw from a far larger pool of potential talent than tennis, that is people whose timing, precision and co-ordination are equal to or better than tennis players, but are merely held back by the physical demands. The fact that Taylor and Anthony still managed to succeed in such an impressive way despite much greater competition, only bolsters their case.

    As a Canadian, I'd like to nominate Russ Howard, one of the best curlers in history, a sport that not only requires outstanding accuracy, timing and co-ordination, but also foot and legwork like tennis, and a much more important strategic component. Howard has been a skip for decades, meaning he is essentially winning coach as well as a winning player. That's something few of the listed athletes can say.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  47. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    I don't want to discredit Bo Jackson from any of the praise he is getting. If people consider him the best athlete, so be it. He was probably every bit of a physical specimen that people say that he was.

    I also don't want to make it seem like I think Federer is the best athlete ever. That is not the case. Some people claim that Federer should not even be considered since he is scrawny guy. I happen to think that tennis skill is a form athleticism. Federer's forehand technique, the subtle movements he can do with his wrist to play unexpected shots, and using his footwork/ hand-eye coordination to constantly look for openings , in my opinion at least, require considerable physical ability.

    I feel the same way about Michael Jordan. I was a huge fan when I was younger. Maybe I have the wrong idea, but I always thought that athleticism meant physicality+technical skill. I mean there was a guy in my high school who had a 40 inch + vertical leap and was also the state champion in track and field, but I never thought he was a better athlete than someone like Kobe Bryant,for example, who has a 38 inch vertical leap and was not a track star.
     
  48. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    The 30 for 30 on Jackson? I've seen it and thought it was awesome.
     
  49. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    I think Federer is still a great athlete by conventional measures, but I don't think he (nor any tennis player I know of) can be placed in the same sphere as Bo Jackson or even Michael Jordan. Both have astonishing technical skill and easily eclipse Federer in the physicality department.

    But, like I said in my first post here, it's a fruitless debate. We have almost no records of individual athletes and their accomplishments prior to the late 1800s. There could have been medieval knights or Roman gladiators or Greek Olympians who put Bo or Pele or any other modern athlete to shame. We simply don't know and can never know. It's not analagous to the "greatest tennis player of all time" debate, where we are discussing the best among a sport's given organized recorded history. Athleticism is not a specific sport or skill; people didn't just start becoming athletic when certain sports were invented and modern media could observe them.
     
  50. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    maybe he meant "juicy guys"
     

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