Bo Jackson vs Roger Federer comparison on ESPN

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Tennis_Monk, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    if federer participated in the combine, bo would outclass him in possibly every aspect.
    if bo participated in a tennis skills challenge, federer would outclass him in possibly every aspect.

    to get a better, unbiased understanding of how well they command their own body, implementing a neutral fitness test of some sort would be ideal. compare their results after participating in SAS or delta force fitness testing. follow it up by training and competing against each other in a neutral sport, let's say bowling. i think, then, we'll see who is more athletic.
     
  2. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Neutral sport, Celebrity Cage Fight
     
  3. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    Bo definitely wins there. Federer will find a way to argue with the ref and get disqualified
     
  4. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    This is the exat problem I'm talking about... US media constantly pushing the own agenda, in sports and many other aspects of life. They certainly brainwashed the own citizens to consider the mister Meetbal NoBody Jackass Heinzketchup as the best athlete that ever was. But, sorry, most of non-US (and many US) posters do not buy it...

    I do not believe Fed is the best athlete, either. Not even a huge fan...
    In previous posts I gave a decent list of better athletes, by acheivement and versatillity. A fellow US rugby/basball/track and field/etc/olympian (Jim Thorpe) was included, but lo and behold, he wasn't featured on ESPN, so it can not be truth, no? He was a native too, so not the most suitable to be boosted in the media, no? Veljko Rogosic was never fetured on US media, so he can not be one of the best athletes ever? Jonah Lomu? Daley Thompson? Yup, I know, not American, they do not qualify for ESPN...
     
  5. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    being athletic doesn't necessarily reflect championships. Andrew Murray is a far, far, far better athlete than Babe Ruth. but who's the better champion?
     
  6. thisiscrazy

    thisiscrazy Rookie

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    Wait, which country is Federer from?
     
  7. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    Fed is such an international celebrity that it doesn't matter... But he still lost.
    I gave examples of not-so-famous, or not famous at all people, that are greater athletes then Heinz.
     
  8. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    Being a champion is the final proof and the crown of one's athleticism. Unfortunately, noBOdy did nothing...
     
  9. T1000

    T1000 Hall of Fame

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    Bo Jackson is the greatest athlete of all time. Any one that disputes that needs to go see a doctor or give me what they're smoking
     
  10. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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  11. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    damn, babe ruth, jack nicklaus, arnold palmer, efrin reyes were super, super, super athletic huh?

    their many championships are final proof of how athletic they are. beer belly and all.


    from Oxford. the english definition of athletic
     
  12. thisiscrazy

    thisiscrazy Rookie

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    Hmmm, sure looked like your argument was because they're not American, ESPN and its audiences don't care. Now it's because they didn't choose a lesser known non-American?

    This only makes you look condescending. Really, you don't think a lot of American know who Jim Thorpe is? You need to get off your high-horse. Anyone who knows anything about rugby knows who Jonah Lomu is.

    I don't know why so many non-Americans on here assume we don't know who athletes are from other countries or don't like any other sports aside from the typical big 4.

    The irony of that thinking is that you only make yourselves look narrowminded with these characterizations.
     
  13. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    No man... Let's not distort the things now. Comparing 2 athletes, like 2 from your Oxford Dictionary, or 2 with beer bellys, the title of greatness goes to the one that was the champion. Bo wasn't. He underachieved given the physique he had, thus he failed to be the greatest. On the other hand, Jim Thorpe was a champ in several sports (football and baseball included) and Olympic champion few times, so he has the claim to be the gratest. Same does Veljko Rogosic, who's career stretched few decades, winning 140+ National championships, 4 World Championships back to back, 4th and 5th in the Olympics WITHOUT even having a coach... Hell, Ben Ainslie won medals in FIVE consecutive Olympic Games, the last 4 being gold. The last 3 were in a discipline where he was totaly outclassed by the shear size and muscle bulk of his opponents, yet his ATHLETICISM prevailed. I had the privilege to compete against the guy, he's a pure beast (in a positive way, of course)!
     
  14. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    you are not getting it at all. being champion has nothing to do with being a great athlete. they are not mutually exclusive. you dont need to be one in order to be the other. they are two different things.

    you have a tainted, misinformed definition of athleticism.
     
  15. TCG

    TCG Semi-Pro

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    Going by your logic any league level or high school level player who showed some tremendous athleticism in multiple sports can be considered greatest. There are many such athletes in many countries who did that. Nobody cared for them because they did not make it big in at least one sport. ESPN doesn't care about them because they are not from USA. So magically some BO who nobody ever heard of outside US becomes greater than Fed because he was ripped and could play two sports at some league level which are not even international.
     
  16. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    that's not my logic. i was implying bo jackson is indeed more athletic than federer. not that bo jackson was the most athletic sportsman ever. not that bo was the greatest or most impressive anything. i've never said that, i've never insinuated that. this has devolved into an anti US media thing which i could give two cents about.
     
  17. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    Then we agree on the fundamental point. Good.
     
  18. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    you do realize this whole time i was trying to convince you that athleticism and being a champion are two different things, right? we may agree that bo may not be the most athletic, but your fundamental understanding of "athleticism" is still flawed. you base athleticism on trophies. trophies can be an indicator of a successful athlete, not necessarily an athletic one.

    Raonic is more athletic than Mcenroe. Mcenroe is the more successful sportsman. a great champion. please tell me you understand the comparison.

    athleticism does not automatically equate championships. athleticism doesnt have to be validated by wins. you seem to think otherwise. one can be extremely athletic but play for a mediocre club/team and never get a championship opportunity.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  19. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    I think that you are misreading the things I said. You even quoted my post where I tried to make myself clear... Anyways, here it goes again:
    You've got 2 athletes of seemingly similar physique/potential. They might be in different countries, from different sports, from different eras, one or both might be dead already. You do not have a chance to play them against each other or to do reliable test/comparsment of their athleticism. Therefore, the one that is/was a champion is greater. Being a champion is the manifestation of ones athleticism. Without, one had the potential but did nothing to prove the greatness, with - mission accomplished.
     
  20. thisiscrazy

    thisiscrazy Rookie

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    I think everyone on this board but you sees the mistake in this logic.
     
  21. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Nope, it's totally logical.
     
  22. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    Gents, see if you can follow this: my reference was towards Frying Pan Forehand's whinny "keep your biased media U.S.' bellyaching. My point was that every time I go to paree (as I happily do every Apr-May), I can turn on a sports network and invariably it will be throughly 'Eurocentric' in its programing so enough with the 'biased' angle. Further, that had that same "best athlete" question been posed in some 'Eurosong' type setting, that you'd have seen a slew of names Americans in turn wouldn't have even considered; consider the same question on a European tennis message board.

    Lastly, not that this means anything, but imho, some of the "anti us media" whining imho is cover for some other "U.S. baggage" that at lot of 'Euros' (and esp. those e'fin' Canucks-razz) carry to the table in their greasy little provincial minds here on this message board....lol...sigh, whatever, that's their problem. I'm sure it's "present company excluded" in the case of yourselves ;-)

    Oh and please don't get me wrong for I too love a good bicycle race wipeout as much as the next guy:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    on-topic: Bo Jackson
     
  23. thisiscrazy

    thisiscrazy Rookie

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    Figures.

    I chose these combos from the same sport as that should be easier to compare.

    According to this pure logic: Brad Marchand (1x champion) is a better athlete than Marcel Dionne. Udonis Haslem (2x champion) is a better athlete than Karl Malone. Aubrey Huff (2x champion) is a better athlete than Ted Williams. All similar in stature to the one they are compared to.

    Yes, that's totally logical.

    Obviously there are much more important factors to consider than just championships.
     
  24. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    Ok, my buddy Ken is the best athlete - Mountain Biker, Gymnast, Ping Pong player, Warms up by doing cartwheels all across the gym. Must be on PEDs because of his energy.....Never had a coach, never won anything, ESPN doesn't know about him - but fantastic athlete! Best I've ever seen!

    Oh! I'm pretty sure "Bo don't know Ken!"
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  25. TCG

    TCG Semi-Pro

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    That's exactly what I was also saying. There are tons of guys in many countries who can do that but nobody cares for them because they didn't achieve anything in any sport. Now ESPN comes up with some BO who could play two sports at some league level in USA. Extremely biased and ignorant poll by ESPN.
     
  26. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Here's a hypothetical: Was Joe Montana a great athlete? Hint: the answer does not lie in his 40 yard dash time...
     
  27. THE FIGHTER

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    no. that simply doesn't hold true. it can be proven wrong with many examples. examples that multiple people have brought forth.

    with your argument, Stéphane Guivarc'h is more athletic than Wayne Rooney because Guivarc'h's athleticism manifested into winning the World Cup. Rooney's athleticism only manifested into some less prestigious club wins. therefor, Guivarc'h must be more athletic.

    Derrick Fischer is more athletic than Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Blake Griffin, and Derrick Rose COMBINED because his athleticism manifested itself into 5 championship rings.. riding on the backs of Kobe and Shaq.


    Being athletic isnt a prerequisite of being a champion, which is what you seem to be implying. they are two separate aspects of a player.
     
  28. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Exactly these guys know little about how athletically great Bo was. Plus there is obviously a lot of jealousy from these small country's that espn does not give much attention to because they are a bunch of nobody's with nowhere near the talent pool of the US, not even close.
     
  29. Chanwan

    Chanwan Legend

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    So maybe you would take the time to explain it in more detail? My questions are on post 178 (and 176, but 178 will suffice).
    Thanks in advance.
     
  30. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    I don't dispute your trying to make the distinction. So to your mind what is your definition of "athletic", if prowess at your sport of choice isn't part of the mix.
     
  31. THE FIGHTER

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    athleticism falls more along the lines of physicality—being physically able in your discipline of choice. one's prowess in a sport depends on more than physical prowess. physical, mental, strategic, technical, etc aspects can be attributed to one's prowess of a sport. federer is a great champion and a great athlete. but in tennis, there are greater athletes that are no doubt lesser champions. one is not essential to the other.
     
  32. rajah84

    rajah84 Semi-Pro

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    If this is a rating of skill and not accomplishments then yes, Bo Jackson is better than Federer. But, the best athlete ever isn't Bo Jackson it's Michael Vick.

    Bo Jackson had more power, but based on the videos I watched of him, but he had horrible movement compared to Michael Vick. Vick would have been the best in any major sport (yes tennis too) he has it all, he's the first perfect athlete.

    Some Michael Vick youtube stuff.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b01EuXuJz9M
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5jaD_PZ_5M
     
  33. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    Could you care to elaborate on what a small country means ?

    Lets have an Objective assessment of talent pool. Given that this is a tennis forum, lets start with Tennis. At this time, i don't think there is a lot of tennis talent that would make other countries jealous. Infrastructure...Yes. Talent, i am not so sure.
     
  34. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    The topic is the worlds greatest athlete not tennis player, but I understand why you need to change the subject. As far as small country's go you could start with ones the size of like 1 or 2 states in the US. These would be described as tiny compared to the United States.
     
  35. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    Actually the Topic was the methodology ESPN employed.
    But i understand why you are saying what you are saying.
     
  36. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    Best Athlete - Ok, Federer is not the best Athlete in Tennis

    So basically ESPN is saying Bo Jackson is the best Athlete in Football - Roger Federer while he's a great champion - I don't think he's the best athlete in Tennis. I would say Monfils might be the better athlete than Federer.

    So perhaps the comparison should be between Jackson & Monfils!
     
  37. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    No thats were so many of you are missing the point they are talking about the best athlete period.
     
  38. President

    President Legend

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    Usain Bolt (and several others) is obviously a better raw athlete than Bo Jackson, for one. ESPN is a joke though so this is no surprise.
     
  39. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Sorry no way vick is even close, it seemed like he was not even mentioned on the show. Which is just the way it should be he has no business being mentioned with the top athletes.
     
  40. rajah84

    rajah84 Semi-Pro

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    I'd hate to say what I'm about to say, but you leave with no choice!

    You (check that) know nothing about athletics.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  41. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    Don't get me wrong, I think Bo is awesome. But, just comparing Bo to other football players is hard because most of his accomplishments and feats were unofficial and based on stories from people who knew him. That's partly why he's viewed as such God of athleticism. People can let their imaginations run a little wild because there aren't a ton of facts to get in the way. And, really, his NFL and MLB stats weren't that crazy good. What's more impressive is that he was just getting started. Again, our imagination can run a little wild thinking "what could he have done?"

    Again, I think Bo is awesome, but he's almost part myth.
     
  42. rajah84

    rajah84 Semi-Pro

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    Final voice.

    Bo Jackson was one of the most hyped...anything's, of all time. He was one of Nike's original and all-time greatest *****s too. ESPN is a joke and makes stupid shows and has stupid polls for stupid people who like stupid ****. That simple. Outside of strength and speed he was a horrible athlete. It's like comparing a rhino to a jaguar. This is a really dumb thread.
     
  43. db10s

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    Lemme guess... Bama fan?
     
  44. rajah84

    rajah84 Semi-Pro

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    You're being nice to them. Bo was not awesome. He stronger and faster that's it. There's much more to athletics than strength and speed.

    These people are who buy into the myth you're talking about are probably Gulbis fans.
     
  45. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Those are some sick videos man. I'm not even into football, but that was amazing.
     
  46. Disgruntled Worker

    Disgruntled Worker Rookie

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    It's too bad he couldn't hit the side of a barn and would usually get clobbered by opposing defenses and get injured before the season even ended. Michael Vick has no place in a discussion of all-time great athletes.
     
  47. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Really then why was your most overrated joke of a quarterback at when they compiled all the best athletes? Oh thats right they only were talking about the real players not the not so good.
     
  48. thisiscrazy

    thisiscrazy Rookie

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    Yeah, um, he was one of the most accurate, surgical passers of all time.

    Oh, I see what you did there - you're trying to say he wasn't fast and won all those championships with no athletic skills. :roll:
     
  49. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    wow, this is awesome

    11 pages.

    Pity I have never heard of Bo Jackson..

    Yes, i googled him, so now I know who he is, but seriously?

    LOL at americans...
     
  50. EndLy

    EndLy Rookie

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    I would say that athleticism is strictly based on natural ability. Similarly to talent, you're either born with it or not.
    Now skill is something you constantly work it. You can acquire skill by practice.

    It takes someone special to put those two together.

    In terms of raw talent/athleticism, Bo Jackson was mighty impressive.

    He was just so big and so fast for his size, which is what built up his reputation.

    I'd say they got it right. I don't agree with many of the ESPN writers, but for Roger Federer to be ranked as high as he was is nothing to be ashamed of. 17 > 0
     

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