Bob Hewitt story on Real Sports Nov 22nd. HBO

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by gavna, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    Mary Carillo running the story on the slimeball that is Bob Hewitt on HBO's Real Sports. She is taking the info the the Boston Globe 6mo investigation and talks with many of the current women (at the time girls as young as 10!) who were abused by Hewitt in the last 20+ yrs.
     
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  2. Moose Malloy

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    http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=15174&zoneid=25
     
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  3. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Did she interview Frew McMillan?
     
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  4. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I'd like to know what he thinks and what he knows. But, I don't blame him or anyone else if they knew something and decided to keep their mouths shut. Everyone associated with Bob Hewitt will now be, to a degree, unfairly tainted by that association whether they knew something, said something, or not.
     
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  5. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    He was quoted in the Boston Globe article in August, doubt he would have much to add based on this:

    I guess not all great doubles teams were close friends. and all these incidents didn't happen while they were playing tournaments or something, so how would McMillan know what Hewitt was doing while 'coaching' in another country?


    here's an earlier thread on the Globe article that first named Hewitt

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=394556
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
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  6. SVP

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    I'm sure that's a comforting thought to the victims and any other victims of child molestation.
     
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  7. treblings

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    only those who didn´t know anything might be unfairly tainted. those who knew or suspected something and didn´t have the courage to speek up have to live with themselves. Ray Moore by his reaction seems to fall into that group.
    i couldn´t see the documentary, not being in the U.S.
    did it convince everybody on this forum who saw it of Hewitts guilt or is their still doubt in some of you
     
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  8. Limpinhitter

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    Your comments are proof that Ray Moor's reputation is unfairly tainted by his past association with Hewitt.
     
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  9. Limpinhitter

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    McMillan has done nothing to them and owes no duty to them.
     
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  10. Tshooter

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    "McMillan has done nothing to them and owes no duty to them."

    I get it now. Assistant Coach didn't **** the kid so he owes him no duty. Why is everyone so upset ? You either have a legal duty to act or not.

    You're starting to sound like some of the DBs I went to school with:

    "Yes we're lying to our customers but if it isn't illegal and we're making money what's the issue ?"
     
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  11. treblings

    treblings Hall of Fame

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    i wouldn´t want to be in anybodys shoes who suspected something and didn´t do anything for whatever reason.
    Only to find out years too late, that his suspicions were right and he could have done something to help.
    i am not trying to taint anybodys reputation and actually respect Ray Moore for saying these things in the documentary. would have been much easier
    for him to plead ignorance.
     
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  12. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    No, in fact, they were pretty notorious for not being very chummy...just undeniably successful! Of course, a number of women's teams seem to have been like this over the years, but usually the men seem to get along reasonably or they part ways.
     
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  13. Datacipher

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    I didn't see it either, but surely it is is best to reserve ultimate judgment. There may well be other sides to the story, and as tempting as it is, given the distastefulness of the accusations, I don't think we should make final judgement based on early media.
     
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  14. Bobby Jr

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    Wow. Seriously - if that didn't raise alarm bells then people were clearly not paying attention.
     
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  15. Tcbtennis

    Tcbtennis Professional

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    I watched the Real Sports story on Bob Hewitt and there is no doubt that the accusations have merit. There are multiple victims who have come foward and tell the disturbingly same story. Girls, who were as young as 10 years old forced to perform sex acts on this *******. During private lessons he would grope them from behind. Then he would beg them to not tell anybody because he told them that he would get in trouble. But one young girl did tell her parents back in the '70's or '80's and they went to the police in South Africa. An investigation was started against Hewitt, but after pressure from the police to not pursue it the investigation was dropped. The women who were interviewed for the Real Sports story are very angry and willing and eager to pursue it now. Bob Hewitt's days are numbered.
     
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  16. Frank Silbermann

    Frank Silbermann Professional

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    You have to consider that this was the 1970s, an era of progress in gay rights, sexual liberation, pornography, etc. People had no way of knowing at the time whether sex with children would also become normalized. Had that happened, someone speaking out against Hewett would eventually be demonized just like someone today who in the 1950s had informed to the police about interracial sexual activity in the south or illegal homosexual activity.

    Now that we've been taught which once-condemned sexual practices are OK or not, it's easy to be Monday-morning quarterbacks.
     
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  17. gavna

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    Are you F****ing kidding me!!!!!! There are NO other sides regarding having sex with 10, 11 or 12 year old CHILDREN. He did it in S Africa and the USA but in the case of the Boston girl the statute of limitations is past and no charges can be brought. It's clear there are many more victims and maybe they will come fwd now.

    The horrible thing is the other coaches and players who "felt" funny stuff was going on as Hewitt would go to "practice" sessions with tennis equipment but jars of vaseline.....and when some did try to do something the police and S Africian authorities wanted to keep it quiet for political reasons. Remember back then South Africa was in the midst of boycotts and enough bad publicity they didn't need a global sports scandal for a number 1 tennis player.
     
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  18. gavna

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    I can't for the life of me ever heard anyone defend or promote sex with children. Yeah the sick MANBLA (or whatever the name is) group, a bunch of pedophiles.
     
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  19. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    NAMBLA and NAMGLA.


    sickos.
     
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  20. equinox

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    By the standards of the day, ted tinling would be tainted by your broad brush.

    This HOF'er hasn't been convicted of an offence, only accusations.

    In the spirit of justice, he deserves the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise by law.
     
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  21. Joe Pike

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    Ouch, that will get you into trouble here ...
     
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  22. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    No, what ADULTS do between themselves is not the issue. He wasn't forcing himself on women. He has been accused (and unfortunately known around tennis circles for years) of raping GIRLS....I still can't find any cultural norms of adults having sex with children. You CANNOT compare pedophilia to adult homosexual or heterosexual norms.
     
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  23. gavna

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    You cannot be serious????? the more look at Thai post the more I am baffled by your total lack of logic???? Do you actually believe that sexual relations between adults and children would ever become the accepted norm? And using the 70s as some mystical time is wack - I was in college and high school in the 70s and I didn't run into any folks looking to hook up with 10 year olds.
     
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  24. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    Yes, I've been well aware of the story since it broke....well even before that, it certainly SEEMS like the accusations have merit, and I hope all sides have their fair chance to present their evidence.

    But SEEMING to have merit, and jumping to a conclusion of guilt is just a step that should never be taken. Countless times in history, there have been cases where sex abuse (or other things) were alleged, with multiple accusers, only to be proven later false. So we need to be careful.

    Yikes.
     
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  25. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    ? There have actually been many cultures, historically, and even in contemporary time for which sex with "children" has been condoned, or even encouraged. One culture, speaking of homsexual practice, believes that young boys coming of age, must engage in oral sex with adult men, so that they can begin to produce semen of their own.

    The idea has been debated in academic circles...anthropology, psychology etc. A lot of research has been published on the subject. Movements that were somewhat pro-pedophile...or at least perceived that way, have occasionally gotten attention in the mainstream.
     
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  26. Tshooter

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    "I watched the Real Sports story on Bob Hewitt and there is no doubt that the accusations have merit. "

    I did too and I agree.

    FS: "You have to consider that this was the 1970s, an era of progress in gay rights, sexual liberation, pornography, etc. People had no way of knowing at the time whether sex with children would also become normalized"

    I'll just let that sit out there and allow the stench to waft over it. Perhaps you can pass the turd on to Mr. Moore because he seemed very upset by his inaction.

    Equinox: "In the spirit of justice, he deserves the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise by law.",

    He has the "benefit of the doubt." And a legal presumption of innocence if charged in a US court. That's not the issue. It's whether the accusations will be investigated by anyone. Whether any criminal authority will. Whether any tennis related organizations will.

    In the spirit of justice which we are both apparently concerned with, there is no way he should be allowed to creep away from these accusations without them being investigated.
     
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  27. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    I'm sure at least most(all?0 of us agree that if the evidence is there, the matter should be investigated by law authorities, and brought to trial if warranted.
     
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  28. gavna

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    Please enlighten me then. I'm not talking about Greeks 3000 yrs ago having male lovers, or some crazy cult or relgion in hiding in the mexican mountains that allows child brides, oh yes the professional pedophiles at NAMBLA have spouted this kind of rhetoric but I would love to hear more about mainstream cultures.....since you are so well read on the subject what books or academics defend this? Where in the civilized (yes I said it) world is this accepted?
     
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  29. gavna

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    Excellent, the "benefit of doubt" is an American concept and will not apply everywhere....you need to read the Boston Globe article as its even worse than what HBO did with 15min. Hewitt in the 60s, 70s and 80s was teaching in Europe, the US and Australia at times, is very possible others will be able to come forward now.
     
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  30. Tcbtennis

    Tcbtennis Professional

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    When I read a post such as this, my first reaction is "Wow, you are an idiot". So you believe that during the 70's when women were marching for equality, and homosexuals were marching for rights, there was a question of whether it was OK to **** children. I must have missed the little kids marching down the street demanding their rights to have forcible sex with old men.

    These acts did not occur in communities where young women were married off to the older men. Yes, it may have been tolerated in that situation. But these acts occurred on tennis courts when these girls (as young as 10 years) were getting tennis lessons. He would beg them not to tell anybody because he knew he was doing wrong. The fact that he was able to stay out of the justice system all these years means that he has already been given the benefit of doubt multiple times by people who knew that he was a ******* or who had heard the "stories" about his perversion.
     
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  31. Tshooter

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    TCB, don't dignify it with a response.

    Unless, of course, you are professionally trained to analyze scat. Then go for it.
     
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  32. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    This doesn't sound sincere at all, nor does it sound very rational. The example I gave was from the Sambia. More importantly, why would you wish to discard so many (the majority: were we to take temporal factors into account) cultures? That is in fact the very point, cultural standards can vary wildly over time and space. What you now call "civilized" is likely to be quite different from the standards of many others.
     
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  33. Tshooter

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    Ah more gems from the keyboard of datacipher & co. Aren't you supposed to be finding that misquote of mine -- you know, the "intellectually dishonest one" from the other thread ?

    Out of curiosity, what planet are you from ? I can recommend some really nice spots to see on planet earth though I should caution you that we look down on sexual abuse and will assert jurisdiction over aliens.

    You're starting to annoy me with your phony intellectual arguments. Why not move on to Intelligent Design as a Science, holocaust revisionism or Bush blew up the Trade Towers. Just for a change of pace.
     
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  34. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    Alright...I'll do my best to respond to every line of your post.

    "& co."? LOL

    I have no idea what you're referring to. You'll have to be more specific...is it relevant to this topic?
    Earth
    Good.


    You're entitled to your own emotional reaction.

    I don't see how that follows. Sorry. Actually, the post I just wrote, in response to a person's request for information, was actually one which most would say supports the notion of cultural relativism, which would, in a general sense, be much more compatible with atheism.

    Again. These seem totally unrelated. Sounds like you're quite a conspiracy buff.

    Over the course of this thread, and a related thread, the post you made above is a great aggressive, and very emotional reponses you've been making. Obviously this is a very sore spot for you. This topic is one that can be very sensitive, but insults don't help anything, least of all the possible victims. Most(all?) of the people you've been attacking have been very level-headed and even-keeled with their responses. Some even trying to search for common ground (as i did in post 27).

    If you wish to assume Hewitt's guilt, nobody can stop you. But there is no rational reason to take out your anger towards him, on people on this board. Not one of which, that I have noticed, has assumed Hewitt's innocence.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
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  35. Tshooter

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    "These seem totally unrelated. Sounds like you're quite a conspiracy buff. "

    I suspect you pretend not to get the point. But in the event you are on the level,

    Once we discuss the absurd notion that people might not have involved themselves in the 1970s because they had some fear that a future world might exist in which raping your tennis student was socially acceptable, that one would live to see that day and that, heaven forbid, one would have to decades later face the consequences of a social stink eye from people that figured out that you outed the rapist then we are in the neighborhood of having to respond to all manner of lunacy.

    And since this topic reached absurdistan with Silbermann's post and your related noise about cultural relativism (as if Hewitt ever stepped foot with a student in any jurisdiction in which raping your student was socially acceptable ), I suggested you use those rational powers of yours to move to similarly ridiculous and irrelevant notions. For a change of pace.

    Your jumping up and down about the presumption of innocence is a canard as well. I didn't say he was legally guilty. I said I thought the allegations had merit. I said it needs to be investigated.
     
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  36. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    When people begin to fire out vague accusations, insults, and rhetoric, but do not give me a single specific argument (as I believe I demonstrated by going through your post exhaustively LINE by LINE.), I try to bring some semblance of rationality back to the discussion by asking for specifics, and getting specific. I do like the fact that to your credit, you didnt' even try to hide the fact that you were just going for blanket accusations eg "datacipher & co.", but of course, doing that is both unfair, and unproductive.

    AH GOOD. Good. Now you're finally presenting a specific argument. HOWEVER, you need to take that up with FRANK SILBERMANN. If you look, you'll see it was he who presented this argument in post #16. I did not discuss the or endorse the premise. It's not good enough to simply start saying "datacipher & co." In fact, until this moment, I had no idea who the "co." was even supposed to be.


    Good, you recognize that it was not my post which contained that premise. Simply proclaiming what I wrote as "related noise" is meaningless. At no time did I ever suggest that premise. Please reread what I wrote specifically, quote it directly, and reply to that.

    To aid you, here are ALL of my posts in this thread (except one word), until the one you are most recently responding to. This is what I am responsible for:

    "No, in fact, they were pretty notorious for not being very chummy...just undeniably successful! Of course, a number of women's teams seem to have been like this over the years, but usually the men seem to get along reasonably or they part ways."

    "I didn't see it either, but surely it is is best to reserve ultimate judgment. There may well be other sides to the story, and as tempting as it is, given the distastefulness of the accusations, I don't think we should make final judgement based on early media."

    "Yes, I've been well aware of the story since it broke....well even before that, it certainly SEEMS like the accusations have merit, and I hope all sides have their fair chance to present their evidence.

    But SEEMING to have merit, and jumping to a conclusion of guilt is just a step that should never be taken. Countless times in history, there have been cases where sex abuse (or other things) were alleged, with multiple accusers, only to be proven later false. So we need to be careful. "

    "? There have actually been many cultures, historically, and even in contemporary time for which sex with "children" has been condoned, or even encouraged. One culture, speaking of homsexual practice, believes that young boys coming of age, must engage in oral sex with adult men, so that they can begin to produce semen of their own."

    "The idea has been debated in academic circles...anthropology, psychology etc. A lot of research has been published on the subject. Movements that were somewhat pro-pedophile...or at least perceived that way, have occasionally gotten attention in the mainstream"

    "I'm sure at least most(all?0 of us agree that if the evidence is there, the matter should be investigated by law authorities, and brought to trial if warranted."

    "This doesn't sound sincere at all, nor does it sound very rational. The example I gave was from the Sambia. More importantly, why would you wish to discard so many (the majority: were we to take temporal factors into account) cultures? That is in fact the very point, cultural standards can vary wildly over time and space. What you now call "civilized" is likely to be quite different from the standards of many others."


    You may certainly respond to any of these lines directly. Simply quote them, and either state your specific objection, or ask for elaboration. That would be by far the most productive course, if you truly have issues with anything I have said. I don't believe anything written above is particularly controversial, nor was it intended to be. It certainly has drawn your ire, and a great deal of insult from you. There is no need for that.

    Please reread the last post carefully. I said "if you wish to assume Hewitt is guilty, nobody can stop you. But..." This is very different than what you are claiming above. Further, as I pointed out in the last post, it was I who tried to find common ground in post 27 by saying all of us could likely agree on the need for investigation. An olive branch that obviously was not well received. Nevertheless, I feel that we are starting to make progress, in narrowing down the actual arguments you seemingly disagree with.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2011
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  37. Tshooter

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    "you'll see it was he who presented this argument in post #16. I did not discuss the or endorse the premise."

    I didn't say you did, as you are aware. I said your noise about alleged cultural norms relating to sex with children. Noise as in not relevant to Hewitt/Moore.

    Which way do you want it. The entire dubious cultural norms discussion was noise (irrespective of the fact that you raised it in response to gavna) or its somehow relevant to Hewitt's situation ?

    And what exactly does this mean:

    "why would you wish to discard so many (the majority: were we to take temporal factors into account) cultures?

    Assuming the bogus parenthetical is true, of course I want to "discard" them when it comes to my own culture -- the one Hewitt taught in. Of what possible relevance are they unless you think there is some merit to Silberman's inane post or you are just adding more irrelevant noise to the thread?
     
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  38. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    Oh! Well in that case, you should address your objection to Gavna, whom I quoted when wrote that.

    Originally Posted by gavna [​IMG]
    ....I still can't find any cultural norms of adults having sex with children. You CANNOT compare pedophilia to adult homosexual or heterosexual norms.


    Huh?! Now I see you realize Gavna raised the issue, as I just wrote above. There is no reason to ask me this, you could raise either of those 2 issues with Gavna. It was his line of argument. I cannot speak for him, or say for certain where he was going with it. (certainly it appears based on his earlier posts to Equinox that his basic argument was: sex with children in fundamentally different than other sexual practices, and thus will never be a cultural norm, as evidence by it never having been a cultural norm. I merely pointed out that the latter part is not true.)

    Now you're doing a very irrational thing. You are taking something I wrote as a direct reply to something Gavna asserted (about no cultures having those practices), and speaking as if it was written to YOU in a completely different context (whether such practices are relevant to Hewitt)

    What that quote refers to is that when Gavna wanted to know examples of cultures in which that practice was condoned, but then added in several somewhat vague limitations on which cultures would be acceptable to him, I questioned the reasoning behind those limitations. If it was indeed to show, as it appears Gavna was asserting, that no different cultures have accepted this practice, but you then say, very different cultures (whether different temporally/spatially/or in degree of "civilization") don't count, you have in fact made an absurd circular argument.

    PLEASE NOTE: that when I provided all the post I wrote, and said you should reply to them directly (which you certainly may!), it did not mean that you should NOT read what they were replying to (as always, I quoted what I replying to), so that you understand the context. You definitely should not read them, as if they are fresh new replies directed at you, at whatever you happen to be thinking right now.
     
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  39. BTURNER

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    We sure are looking hard for excuses to quarrel here or reasons to continue with discord. This is silly.
     
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  40. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    Agreed. As I said, I really did not expect anything I posted in this thread to be particularly controversial. As I suggested much earlier, I would think we would all agree that we hope this matter will be investigated fully, and if warranted, brought to trial, and then hopefully (which is often unwarranted hope admittedly), justice is served.
     
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  41. Tshooter

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    Hey look who showed up.

    Which reminds me. "& Co" referred not to Silberman (I wouldn't lump anyone with that asinine post unless they insisted on it; I merely characterized your assertion of the existence of some alleged group in some forest somewhere as evidence of other cultural norms as noise. Even if I bought it you turned this single band of troglodytes into "many" "majority".

    I assumed you could recall the previous post and the poster that has recently joined this thread -- of the private organizations should not conduct investigations independently of any criminal authority that might wish to assert jurisdiction. And apparently if none has in 30+ years then we'll wait 30 more because hey you never know. And by then everyone will be dead and we can pretend none of this messy business of accusations and half-assed denials ("I'm sorry if I offended anyone" -- Love Bob) never happened.

    If you refer to the other thread you are two birds of a feather.

    And do we need a crystal ball to see this playing out ?

    There may be issues pursuing him criminally I don't know. But the HOF in addition to other tennis organizations will be a member short.

    And I guess BT will weep because such organizations weren't sensitive enough to Hewitt's "legal quagmire" as he refers to it.
     
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  42. BTURNER

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    I will not weep, and it may be obligatory for the HOF under written guidelines,but I will not confuse any results with a fair investigation. The results may acheive a political objective of appearing 'sincere' and other feel-good nonsense. but lets not confuse half-truth with truth. Total waste of time at best unless you like preordained results. You do tshooter, and that is not what investigations are supposed to be about. You are naive and stupid. people may come to similar sounding conclusions for entirely different reasons just as black wing finches and crows both look black afeather. The process is supposed to matter more than the result. A corrupt or hopelessly handicapped process should not even be begun.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2011
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  43. gavna

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    That's your example? A prehistoric tribe in freaking New Guinea....Do you really believe this crap you spout or do you just like to be a contrarian?
     
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  44. Datacipher

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    No, as I said, there are more examples, I only described in detail that one, because the beliefs are so well documented, and because they are rather interesting. Incidently, the tribe is far from "prehistoric", why you would assume that, I have no idea. Not that it would be relevant, even if they were, as I asked (you did not reply), I do not know why you wish to exclude results to a particular temporal frame. When you do that, as discussed above with Tshooter, your argument becomes unclear to us all.

    PS. The rhetoric...calling my replies, which have been nothing but cordial, "crap" is not becoming of an adult, or of a person who wishes to be taken seriously. I suggest it be eliminated.
     
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  45. ClarkC

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    To summarize: You could have replied to Gavna: "Actually, there are and have been cultures with such sexual norms, but they are not particularly relevant to the Bob Hewitt case, so we need not get sidetracked into discussing them."

    Instead, you chose to communicate poorly and then blame others for wrongly thinking that your post was relevant to Bob Hewitt.
     
    #45
  46. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    No, that's completely incorrect. What an ODD thing to say. I must question either your sincerity here, or your rationality if you believe the onus was on me to construct the argument that Tshooter wishes to present to Gavna.

    I told Gavna that in fact he was wrong that those norms have never existed in a culture. What Gavna wished to prove with his original incorrect premise was never clear to me (or apparently, anyone else), and Tshooter's counterargument to Gavna is his responsibility. Though indeed, if I were to take over, and speak for all participants, the conversation would be more logical.

    Now...with all 3 of you indulging in this, it could indeed be the most nonsensical thread ever presented. Let's face it...to level with you, I understand why all 3 of you are stooping to that level (except perhaps tshooter, who seems genuinely....confused). But why? You can't possibly believe anyone who actually reads this, would not see through it.

    Again, I reposted ALL of my original statements. I can do so again. Anyone wishing to take issue with what I said, may quote and reply. If you wish to argue with statements from Gavna or Tshooter, then that is what you should do. I am not responsible for their inanity.
     
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  47. Frank Silbermann

    Frank Silbermann Professional

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    I believe Dolly Parton first married at age 12. It is still acceptable to r*pe child brides even younger than that sold by their fathers in parts of Yemen and Pakistan (and perhaps other countries). But the acceptability is really quite irrelevant in an era of boundary pushing; how many places can you think of that honored homosexuality -- much less allowed same-sex marriages in the era of Hewitt's childhood?

    It was statutory r*pe, not forcible r*pe (so far as I know). Yes, there was a power imbalance (much like the power imbalance when the captain of the football team dates a freshman who knows what his approval means to her popularity). But this new ethic -- that what matters is mutual consent and ability to consent -- is indeed new, and was only developed in order to keep what Hewitt did illegal as other sexual inhibitions tumbled.

    In Hewitt's childhood, children could be beaten and forced to practice the violin every day with or without their consent. A husband could demand sex from his wife and if she refused, it was not a legal issue to r*pe a wife. Go back in time that far yet again, and it was common to force children to work in dangerous factories and coal mines.

    Yes, what Hewitt did was considered an outrage. That opinion arose because sex outside of marriage was considered immoral and was in fact illegal. What Hewitt did fell into the category of corrupting minors by teaching them to wrong; it fell somewhere within the vast gulf between teaching children to murder and instructing them to hit with a western grip.

    In the 1970s, however, it became hip to scorn the old moral values and to defy authority -- Lenny Bruce did (he pronounced a taboo word in his nightclub act) and spent a bit of time behind bars -- today he is regarded as a hero. The _new_ moral argument against seducing children was only then starting to be developed.

    In fact, in some ways we are more lenient on child sexual abuse than in previous generations. In my childhood, voluntary sexual molestation (then called "heavy petting") among same-age minors carried much greater disapproval than today. As regards sexual self-abuse, today, there is virtually no disapproval whatsoever -- regardless of age. (A hundred and fifty years ago this was considered to be a very serious evil, and a cause of blindness, hairy palms, insanity, and made the saints weep.)

    The question any of us believe it (I do NOT), but rather whether Hewitt might have thought so. (IMO, some sexual orientations, for example Hewitt's, _do_ need to be suppressed, and not expressed.).

    But not everyone is a moral philosopher -- that's why we need rules and authority. Though sometimes rules need to be challenged and authorities scorned, such times are dangerous and bad things can result (as we have seen here).
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
    #47
  48. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    No one said you had to construct someone else's argument for them. The point is that a good communicator recognizes when an argument is likely to be misunderstood and makes it clearer. Prevention is better than cure. What does that have to do with making someone else's argument for them?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
    #48
  49. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Ah, but you forget that this is a tennis forum whose members are competitive by nature. When you get to know Data a little better you'll recognize that much of what he writes is as much, or more, for sport than for the edification of his opponent.
     
    #49
  50. treblings

    treblings Hall of Fame

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    and has little or nothing to do with the topic of the thread.
     
    #50

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