Bob Hewitt story on Real Sports Nov 22nd. HBO

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by gavna, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Exhibit "A" your honor. Another innately competitive TT'er.

    If you read the entire thread, then you'd see that it concerns more than one topic?
     
    #51
  2. treblings

    treblings Hall of Fame

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    i read the whole thread, it should concern only one topic (Hewitt, remember?)and no, it´s not about competition.
     
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  3. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    My point was ABSOLUTELY clear: the premise that this practice has never been condoned in any culture is incorrect. (see my OP on this topic below)

    Your criticisms does ring true of Gavna and Tshooter posts, since you were unable to even recognize their arguments, and somehow incorrectly attributed them to me.

    POST #25

    Datacipher
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    [​IMG]
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gavna [​IMG]
    ....I still can't find any cultural norms of adults having sex with children. You CANNOT compare pedophilia to adult homosexual or heterosexual norms.

    ? There have actually been many cultures, historically, and even in contemporary time for which sex with "children" has been condoned, or even encouraged. One culture, speaking of homsexual practice, believes that young boys coming of age, must engage in oral sex with adult men, so that they can begin to produce semen of their own.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gavna [​IMG]
    You cannot be serious????? the more look at Thai post the more I am baffled by your total lack of logic???? Do you actually believe that sexual relations between adults and children would ever become the accepted norm? And using the 70s as some mystical time is wack - I was in college and high school in the 70s and I didn't run into any folks looking to hook up with 10 year olds.

    The idea has been debated in academic circles...anthropology, psychology etc. A lot of research has been published on the subject. Movements that were somewhat pro-pedophile...or at least perceived that way, have occasionally gotten attention in the mainstream.
     
    #53
  4. ClarkC

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    Where did I attribute their arguments to you?
     
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  5. Tcbtennis

    Tcbtennis Professional

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    Somehow I believe these are the arguments used by NAMBLA members to justify their behaviors (just substitute girl for boy). So this is statutory **** not forcible **** (as far as you know). Does the fact that some of these girls were 10 years old factor into your thought processes? This wasn't Yemen or Pakistan or some backwater country singer's hometown. It was a tennis court, during tennis lessons. Whatever Hewitt thought is irrelevant. It didn't matter if in his mind he was philosophizing about the changing moral standards of the day. What mattered is that he forcibly made young girls perform sex acts on him and he raped them against their will.
     
    #55
  6. CyBorg

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    Moral standards do not stand still.

    Frank is right to a large extent. What Hewitt thought DOES matter, because it is reflective of what other people thought at the time.

    However Frank might be going a bit too far for my liking. I don't think having relations with a 10-year old girl was acceptable in many places then either. Maybe Denmark. They were the exact opposite of what they are today - very, very liberal.

    There are two things I would be looking into if I was a lawyer or a judge participating in this case: the ages of the alleged victims and how we can make distinctions between someone who is 15 and someone who is 10; and the way the balance of power was shifted by means of manipulation or other kind of psychological abuse, if any.

    People assume that Hewitt was psychologically coercive. And it's very sensible to feel that way. But we get into much grey area when we discuss an age range like 14-18 (and you can imagine the slippery slope; if 14, why not 13, etc). It is indeed impossible to establish that it is objectively wrong for an adult man to have sexual relations with a 14-year old girl. That's not necessarily immoral; it might be immoral in context, if the relationship is coercive. It is most definitely illegal in most countries now. It wasn't illegal in many more countries then than now.

    There are still countries (Spain is one I think) which have the age of consent as low as 13-14, but with conditions of various kinds. Some people might be surprised to hear this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
    #56
  7. CyBorg

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    Stunningly. Yes.

    Stunningly. Child pornography was legal in Denmark until the late 1970s. And I'm pretty sure that they had no laws of consent at all for some time.

    In other words, anything goes. One of the unintended consequences of the 60s.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
    #57
  8. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    That's your opinion. But, the fact remains that this, like most threads, concerns many topics. I elected to comment on the one that was of the most interest to me at the time.
     
    #58
  9. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    In Canada, which really is just a state of the US, geographically and culturally, the age of consent was 14, until only a few years ago. With no conditions, except that the adult not be in a position of direct supervisory power.

    Now it has been raised to 16.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2011
    #59
  10. Frank Silbermann

    Frank Silbermann Professional

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    Yeah, I personally don't think it matters that some contemporary wicked or backward societies have permitted man-girl sex -- but for some reason Gavna demanded this information.

    Yes, of course, and that's why I said, "The question is not whether any of us believe it (I do NOT), ...." and "(IMO, some sexual orientations, for example Hewitt's, _do_ need to be suppressed, and not expressed)" and "that's why we need rules and authority."

    That, and also that he psychologically scarred (at least some of) them for life, which to me is worse than the mere fact that he violated some norm or law.

    My point was not to justify what he did, but rather to point out that there were a lot of other people at the time with contributory guilt -- in that they had spread a general contempt for traditional behavioral standards, thus helping set the stage for more of this kind of boundary-breaking (than might otherwise have occurred).
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2011
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  11. Frank Silbermann

    Frank Silbermann Professional

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    And even then, I believe they changed it only after pressure from the U.S. government.
     
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  12. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Professional

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    A very close female friend of mine was gangraped by a network of teachers and doctors and was set up by her adoptive mother. It "apparently" is a thing that is widespread. Would that qualify as a coercive element? She has since met hundreds of women with similar stories. Its pretty weird out there.
     
    #62
  13. Chopin

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    I've spent some time in Toronto and Montreal and I never once in my life thought that Canada was anywhere near being a "state of the US" either politically, economically, culturally, or in terms of laws.
     
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  14. Chopin

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    [​IMG]

    Club Chopin Forever, boys.
     
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  15. Frank Silbermann

    Frank Silbermann Professional

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    Depends on where you're from. I suppose that someone from Mongolia or Chile might have that impression.
     
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  16. SVP

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    Moral Duty?

    Frew: "Hey Bob, what are you doing to that underaged girl?"
    Bob: "I'm educating her in mature ways."
    Frew: "Oh okay, as long as you know I'm not doing anything to that underaged girl, we're all cool here, right?"
    Bob: "Yeah, we're cool. As long as you don't tell anyone else about my efforts to educate this young girl."
     
    #66
  17. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Sometimes, I wish we were a Canadian province so we could have their universal health care.
     
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  18. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    There may be ObamaCare.
     
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  19. stapletonj

    stapletonj Semi-Pro

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    Not to put too fine a point on it, but WHERE WERE THESE GIRLS FATHERS!!!!!????!!!!

    If my little girl had told me what Mr. Creepo was doing during these "lessons", he wouldn't have had any problems at all with his overactive libido because he wouldn't have had one anymore !!!!

    PS - This coming from the "backwoods" of rural West Virginia, where 13 or 14 year olds getting married has always been rare, but not unheard of. But MARRIED, not just passed around...or groped and forgotten. But also where a pervo like this dude would have dealt with by the families involved, without the necessity of social workers, CSI, etc etc etc, thank you very much
     
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  20. SVP

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    Mr. Limp


    Mr. Limp, do you still subscribe to your position? That Frew had no duty to inform anyone about Bob's actions?
     
    #70
  21. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Too little, too late.
     
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  22. Frank Silbermann

    Frank Silbermann Professional

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    In Canada, a higher percentage of voters are in a position to contribute to the fund via their taxes. Our percentage of voters who are net taxpayers is lower and shrinking by the year.

    England could not even consider creating its social welfare state until it had first ditched its 3rd World colonies.
     
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  23. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Unless you can prove that this conversation actually occurred, I think that it borders on defamation.
     
    #73
  24. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Mr. Cheney, I live in the reality based world. Unless you can prove that the conversation you attribute to Frew McMillan actually occurred, then, it is irrelevant, and possibly an actionable tort. If you followed the entire thread, apparently McMillan was not close friends with Hewitt off of the court.

    But, even if the quoted conversation you claim occurred were genuine, I stand by my prior comments. McMillan had no duty to report it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
    #74
  25. Chopin

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    Sadly not.
     
    #75
  26. Chopin

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    ^We all know where this thread is going. Oh, yes, we do. The ObamaCare mention guarantees arguing and the thread's deletion.
     
    #76
  27. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I think there are better reasons to delete the thread. But, that's just me. An anonymous poster on an internet forum.
     
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