Body wear and tear, 2h vs 1h backhand

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Dimcorner, May 7, 2014.

  1. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

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    Body wear and tear, 2h vs 1h backhand (now with short vid)

    I have been contemplating and somewhat delving into 2hbh for almost a year now and I can hit both about same consistency now. Part of the reason for going 2h is because I still play pretty competitive badminton and I don't want to wear out my shoulder from overuse.

    Is this a valid reason or does correct form not really affect your shoulder given that you hit forehands and serves with it. Will switching to a 2hbh really make a huge difference in shoulder wear?

    What would be the wear points of a 2h? My feeling is that your lower back and your front leg will start getting more wear because of the rotation involved. I find the 2hbh more physically demanding to hit because I have to power thru the shot with my whole body where with 1H it kinda just flows in.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
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  2. SpinToWin

    SpinToWin G.O.A.T.

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    I would only switch to a two hander once you notice some discomfort/pain in the shoulder. Stick to what works for you!
     
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  3. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I switched to 2 hands to clear my tennis elbow.
     
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  4. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    It depends where do you want it to hurt, really. 2HBH is more prone to hips and off-hand injury, while the 1HBH is more prone to shoulder injuries and tennis elbow.
     
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  5. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

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    But will the use of the 1hbh along with serves and forehand on that same arm wear more than if you had a 2hbh?

    Right now my shoulder is meh. Sometimes it bothers me, sometimes it doesn't. I don't know if a 2hbh would make any difference in relieving discomfort or not.

    It's an old impingement injury from badminton years ago. It's very mild now but I'm playing less as well to help it clear out. Season is starting however so I was just wondering if a 2hbh would make any difference on shoulder. My elbow is fine and I have never experienced tennis elbow (even with kevlar on my old APD).
     
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  6. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Or you will have a stronger shoulder. YMMV; different strokes for different folks after all. OTOH, you may want to use a resistance band to do shoulder strengthening and the likes.
     
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  7. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    IMO, the two hander is way more demanding on the body and you have to cover more ground. With proper technique tennis elbow is not an issue for the one hander.
     
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  8. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    I changed to 2HBH about six months ago and haven't looked back.

    • My backhand has become more consistent.
    • Hitting high balls is way easier.
    • I can easily hit it open or closed stance
    • My return game has improved GREATLY on the backhand side
    • Hitting off the bounce is far easier.

    I really can't think of any negatives. I wish I'd have started out with it to begin with.
     
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  9. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

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    yeah right now I hit a much better attacking return of serve with a 2HBH than a 1HBH. During rallies I switch between them depending on what I get. Floaters I can drill with the 1HBH, anything with pace I hit with 2HBH.

    I think I'm leaning with the 2HBH but I get better angles with the 1HBH. Tough choices!

    I played my match tonight and lost 1 and 2. My mixed partner was cramping from the first point so not much I could do. I returned with 2HBH but played out point with 1HBH. For real I need to just make up my mind!
     
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  10. kingcheetah

    kingcheetah Professional

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    I've played a 2h my whole life, and only recently played around with a 1h for fun, but for me the 1h wears down my arm a lot more than a 2h ever has... this could be different for other people, but for me being able to consistently hit harder with better accuracy and less body wear is a winning formula, so I'm a 2h backhand guy.
     
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  11. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    I did, too :)

    Bit over 4 years ago
     
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  12. peakofthebounce

    peakofthebounce Banned

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    ROS is the only reason I'd switch. Just can't do it with my one hander. However I also can't return anything off my forehand either so maybe I need to go double handed off both sides or stand at the back fence to receive serve
     
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  13. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    Using the two-hander should take a little workload off your shoulder, but you ought to be able to work a little more smooth flow into that stroke, too. If you power through it too much, that could also put you on the path to some trouble. Work on taking practice swings with the two-hander without hitting a ball and focus on a smooth release and finishing with balance.

    Dial in that feel and swing tempo so that you know what to duplicate when you swing at a ball. Otherwise it's likely that you'll compensate and muscle through the stroke too much to make contact. This is also an effective approach to the serve - dial in your best tempo before trying to hit a ball.

    I use both backhands just fine, so I'll suggest this for you. At least think it over. You're having some success with both styles, but you sound like me with the one-hander. You can hit it well as long as you have time to make a smooth stroke. I can recognize right away when I can't set up my one-hander and that's when I use the quicker set-and-fire two-hander. That bails me out when I need to fight a ball off, but with enough prep time, my consistency, power, and accuracy are much better with my one-hander.
     
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  14. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    A friend pulled something out of the back of his shoulder many years ago and only had it diagnosed after they really couldn't do anything about it. So he picked up a two-handed backhand and then later learned how to hit left-handed - serve, forehand and backhand. His forehand and backhand are actually quite good. The serve has a lot of pace and side-spin but doesn't go in very often.

    So it can be done but it could take quite a while to use the new stroke naturally.
     
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  15. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

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    Wow that's a drastic change!

    I'm going to try to flow more into the 2hbh and see how it goes. I'm very fast and quick for my age so reach is not that big an issue since I can run things down pretty well.
     
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  16. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    15 posts and nobody mentioned SLICE?
    SLICE !!
    Slice takes almost no strain from your rotator cuffs.
    Slice on rally balls, hit topspin on winner attempts, like TommyHaas, Federer, Graf, Sampras, etc.
     
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  17. peakofthebounce

    peakofthebounce Banned

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    It's irrelevant as both 1hbh and 2hbh players can hit slice.
     
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  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Possibly, you are irrelevent.
    For one in your life, THINK! Haas, Fed, Graf, all use the slice a LOT.
    Why do you suppose that is?
     
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  19. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    Um...because they have good slices? Roddick sliced a lot too.
     
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  20. peakofthebounce

    peakofthebounce Banned

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    Because they have a good slice?

    Murray uses slice a lot, why do you suppose that is?

    Almagro almost never slices - why do you suppose that is?

    Whether or not you have a good slice depends very little on whether you hit a 2hbh or a 1hbh. In fact, if you hit a 1hbh with a sw grip, then the continental slice grip is even more alien to you than the transition from 2hbh to slice.
     
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  21. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Talking WEAR AND TEAR!
    There is little wear with slice backhands.
    There is lots of wear with heavy topspin backhands.
     
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  22. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    #22
  23. hray4clay

    hray4clay Rookie

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    I am being treated for tennis elbow by a DPT now. Got two shots in the elbow three days ago and am wearing an arm strap a couple of inches below the elbow. Will start PT tomorrow with heating, stretching, massage, and strengthening excersizes scheduled for 3 days a week for 4 weeks! I am not supposed to pick up a racquet to hit balls for at least two weeks. I will try to hold off as long as I can without going crazy because I want to heal and not overdo it and require surgery which will put me out of commission for 4 months instead of 4 weeks. I blame my affliction on using Babolat AeroProDrive 2013 strung with gut/poly hybrids because that is when the symptoms started. Since then, I went to all gut at 52lbs and started switching over to a 2hbh for the first time in my life which was not an easy thing to do. That did not help much because I play only doubles and have to hit lots of backhand volleys which KILLED my elbow. I finally switched to a pair of Youtek Prestige Pros strung with 50 lbs. of gut in one and for moist weather on the clay I have the other strung with 45lb. of Babo Excel as per Mikeler (arm comfort). I'm thinking I'm better off stopping tennis for a short time and doing the physical therapy than being hard-headed as usual and playing through the pain as I have been doing for the past three months and risk ripping the tendon loose from the epicondyl joint and needing surgery. OBTW, since the advent of the 2hbh, now I have pain in both shoulders where the clavicle attaches from the shoulder rotation. I hit everything hard with topspin from the backcourt!
     
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  24. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Seriously.
    Switch to 2hbh volleys.
    Frew McMillian was co Number ONE in doubles.
    Gene Mayer was No.4 in doubles.
    Jimmy Connors volleyed with 2hbh until he became No. ONE ATP, then switched to 1hbh volleys.
     
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  25. hray4clay

    hray4clay Rookie

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    I don't know why you think there is "little wear" with slice backhands. They hurt like hell if you have tennis elbow when you make that contact with your arm straight slicing down and through but they do hurt a little less than the full on one handed backhad drive, I must admit. There is virtually NO pain in the elbow when you hit the 2 hander.
     
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  26. hray4clay

    hray4clay Rookie

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    good idea!!
     
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  27. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    LeeD has a point. Slicing the backhand can help you conserve energy during a long match.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
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  28. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    Wear and tear is only related to technique, conditioning, and awareness of one's own limits. What kind of shot has no bearing what so ever.
     
    #28
  29. radtennisfan

    radtennisfan Rookie

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    I have left wrist pain and am considering trying a two hander or go with mostly slice.

    I also switched rackets and play a less wrist heavy aggressive game to more consistent less aggressive game.
     
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  30. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Bingo, as wrong as you possibly can be!
    Lots of players are already injured somewhat, and using a repetitive topspin 1hbh can accelerate wear and tear on the rotator cuffs, or possibly the elbow.
    Only the YOUNG can work out and build strength.
    Most players over the age of 35 start to feel wear and tear from repetitive sports.
     
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  31. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    The legendary slice backhand...

    I agree that the slice is among the essentials that every player should develop, but it doesn't seem to get a bundle of attention all too often. As for the wear and tear aspect of that shot, I think it can be either good or bad, but it depends on the player's technique. Some players use too much shoulder to drive a slice, but those with better mechanics just about have their racquet arm along for the ride and not much more.

    I saw a fantastic player at a small local tournament a few years ago who hit all slice off both sides. He apparently had a broken wrist some years back, but since he was a tennis teacher, he needed to figure out a way to hit balls so that he could keep working. With some tape for support, he found that hitting both a forehand and backhand slice was okay. His wrist mended, but the style stuck for this guy and he kept on with it. Since his movement was also quite good, he was a very tricky opponent for everybody who faced him.

    So it seems that there's some big potential to take lots of stress off the wrist (and maybe the shoulder) by employing the slice, but I'd want to avoid it if I had some elbow issues. I'd expect a lot of slicing to irritate a less than sound elbow, especially when playing with a relatively light racquet.
     
    #31
  32. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    Slice or flat shots should better balance the stress between the medial and lateral whereas topspin puts more pressure on the lateral (which is probably why tennis elbow is on the lateral). The more even stress might make actual injuries less frequent with slice and flat shots.
     
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  33. kingcheetah

    kingcheetah Professional

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    I would imagine it sends a whole lot less shock through your arm and it is easier to hit solid shots with two hands than one.
     
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  34. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

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    #34
  35. peakofthebounce

    peakofthebounce Banned

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    1hbh may preserve balance on the rotator cuff muscles compared to a left-arm dominant 2hbh. Both types of backhand will maintain balance but the 1hbh more so.

    This is because when you hit a forehand you are using shoulder internal rotation and shoulder flexion. When you hit a 1hbh you are using shoulder external rotation and extension.

    Anyone who knows about rehab and/or anatomy will know that it is important to keep these two muscle groups balanced to prevent shoulder impingement. When internal rotation is dominant, shoulder issues often result.

    Since the 1hbh (and the 2hbh to a lesser extent) is in many ways the opposite motion of the forehand for the right shoulder, tennis players actually see fewer shoulder issues than baseball pitchers - who you can view as doing a forehand-like motion over and over again with no 'backhand' motion to balance it out. Tennis players are more able to keep their external rotators strong to negate injury.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
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  36. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

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    Hmm... very interesting point! Dang it! Not making it easier to decide :\
     
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  37. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    But aren't you still doing the same opposite rotation of the right shoulder while hitting a 2 hander? Plus when you hit slices you are also using that opposite rotation. I think these claims you are making above a a bit exagerated...especially for us rec players who only play a few times a week and don't swing as hard as the Pros do on every ball.

    Your statement above about "tennis players"....is that ALL tennis players? Because only 10% or less use a 1HBH, so if the 2 hander were so bad for your shoulder, wouldn't we be seeing injuries from players who hit 2 handers?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
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  38. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Hey Jo.

    Pro players hit thousands of balls a week, compared to us rec players who only play a few times a week. I really don't think you should base your choice on this point, unless you have already been having shoulder issues.

    Like I said, I would choose whichever backhand gives you a more reliable and consistent shot. That is what wins at the rec level. The 2 hander is a much more versatile shot. It will allow you to stay in the point a lot longer and more often then the 1 hander. Since you can hit both well, I would choose the more reliable and versatile one. If one side was obviously better, than it would be a no brainer, but since you can do both, go with the one that has more advantages. There is a good reason why a vast majority of pro players hit the 2 hander. Also, if you are concerned with overuse or "balancing out the shoulder rotation", you can always do resistance band exercises that strengthen the rotation of the shoulder in each direction. These exercises with the bands will also have a greater impact since there is resistance from the bands.

    Sidenote: maybe rip some footage from when we played a set, where u were closer to the camera? It will be easier to see your backhands that way. Maybe you could edit out a few of each?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
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  39. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    this thread is about the difference of wear and tear of the body, not which one is better...
    back to subject?
     
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  40. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    The op is trying to decide which backhand to go with, so he is considering all aspects of it.

    Also, I addressed the "wear and tear" issue. Not sure why you had a problem with my post? It was completely topic related.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
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  41. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    sorry, didn't mean you...
    just that it felt the last posts started dealing with the usual 1/2bh debate..
    as opposed to other many threads like that,
    this thread sounded interesting mostly because of the physical "hazards" concerned.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
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  42. peakofthebounce

    peakofthebounce Banned

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    I am not saying that 2hbh is bad for your shoulder. 2hbh is GOOD for your shoulder as it balances out your rotator cuff musculature more than only hitting forehands.

    However, since the right shoulder is more active in the 1hbh, the 1hbh has the potential to balance out your right shoulder musculature more than 2hbh.
     
    #42
  43. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    OK np.

    I know you have been going through the same backhand debate as the op.
    But unless you are experiencing injury or pain, I don't think its something that should dictate your direction. Like I said, you can use resistance band exercises to strengthen the shoulder rotators in both directions, which will be far more efficient than trying to equal it out on the tennis court.

    I think proper form for either stroke is much more important in preventing injury. You will injure yourself faster hitting 2 handers with bad technique, than hitting one handers with proper technique. As mentioned by someone else, 2 handers put more stress on your hips as well, so there's no guarantee hitting a one hander will minimize injuries. I think the best advice for the op is to watch the overuse, since he plays lots of badmitten too, and keep all the muscles and joints healthy with proper exercise, stretching and recovery.
     
    #43
  44. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    yea it's mostly what fit your game,
    but also what fits your personal physical built.

    my decision to go 2HBH was mostly "physical",
    as:

    -my wrist must be more delicate, and after pounding FH and 1HBHs for a while, i start feeling pain in my wrist.
    for the past 3 years, i'm strengthening my arm, wrist, and with a good technique. so it's probably a chronic problem, so i won't take risks.

    -i'm also worried about putting all that pressure on my arm: serve, FH and BH.
    feels more fragile for me.
     
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  45. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    This is why you should do rows in the gym.
     
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  46. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

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    Most of the time the shoulder tenderness is from serving for me. I will probably stick with the 2hbh. I had an old strain/impingement injury about 6 years ago with badminton. Couldn't raise my arm past shoulder height if my thumb was pointed down. For the most part is ok now but I do feel a slight loss of range of motion because I feel something pinches towards the extreme levels.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
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  47. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    I've never had shoulder issues but my wife did many years ago and I got her the 7-minute rotator cuff solution book. The thing is that she did the exercises until it got better and then stopped doing them. I do them as part of my stretching routine before a run. My wife still has shoulder problems but slacks off on the exercises. They only take a few minutes a day but they're easy to skip.
     
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  48. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Body wear and tear WHERE?
    Shoulder, then 2hbh, if it's a hitting shoulder problem.
    Legs, hips, lower back, 1hbh because it takes less rotational force.
    Knees and ankles, 1hbh, because you can slice the majority of shots.
     
    #48
  49. Long Face

    Long Face Rookie

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    I have played both 2HBH and 1HBH throughout my tennis life, each for years. Now I have settled down on 1HBH.

    2HBH is more stable, and is easier on my wrists, elbows and shoulders. But it is more demanding on my footwork and core strength. For me, I'm not able to rotate my hip and shoulder fast enough to generate ball speed. If my opponent's shot is slow, my answer is slow as a result.

    1HBH is more versatile, and can be hit with easier whipping power. My backhand ball speed is often faster than my forehands, and with better angles. At the same time, it is easier on my footwork, often requiring one less step to my backhand side. With proper technique (hitting everything in front of you), it is a easy and relaxed stroke that will not cause too much body wear. But if hitting late, a lot of problems to wrist and elbow, or even shoulder, could happen.

    And also the one-arm-thicker-than-the-other problem!
     
    #49
  50. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    Why did you necro this thread?

    To brag about your backhand.. It doesn't sound good - in either version. You need less steps for OHBH? Huh? You can't rotate your hips enough to hit two hand backhands hard? Huh? Does that mean you can't hit a forehand either?!
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
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