N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Only if I see this at the end Nathaniel:
:wink:
I would accept it. I guess my drive diminished just like Fed's did.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
I just really hoping they get it right this time round- I've forgotten what's it like to see Nole holding something big and shiny in his hands.
You are such a hypocrite. For weeks you have been saying that slams are not all that matter. Since the USO last year Novak has had a lock on most of the Masters 1000 tournaments and you seemed to be as happy as a clam about that. So I guess slams do matter most for you after all huh?
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
You can say that again.
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Slams aren't all that matter but I guess the assumption is that when someone is doing so well at 1000 level, they will convert some Slam chances.
The Slams are of course the most important events in tennis.
Have they actually said something such as ''1000 events are worth as much as Slams''?
The Slams are of course the most important events in tennis.
Have they actually said something such as ''1000 events are worth as much as Slams''?
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
I still maintain that the one after (currently about 17 - 19) look sharp. We'll see them get their chances slowly but surely with some WCards and qualifications over the next year or two. There can't be TWO duff gens. in a row now can there, right?
...
RIGHT?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
You are such a hypocrite. For weeks you have been saying that slams are not all that matter. Since the USO last year Novak has had a lock on most of the Masters 1000 tournaments and you seemed to be as happy as a clam about that. So I guess slams do matter most for you after all huh?
OMG babe I've seen this same comment in so many of your posts recently and this will be the 3rd time I've replied to you. YES, the slams are the most important tournaments, all I ever tried to say was that they weren't the ONLY tournaments that get played. And I hope my guy will be winning one of them real soon! :wink:
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
But at the end of the day for an elite player they really are all that matter.
After somebody made a post about how slams are really what matter, he would respond defensively by saying that slams are not what tennis is all about. Now he is saying he is "dying" for Novak to win a slam. What happened to the slams are not everything mentality? LOL.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
If you say so.
Do you think Novak will win Wimbledon?
What do you mean "if you say so"? Do you not think I'm an honourable poster on these boards mate?
And yes I'm gonna back my guy and say that he'll go all the way!
Legend of Borg
G.O.A.T.
nole will get to the final just to lose to hafa/murray/some random scrub that got there by accident cause the main seeds got rekt
he's the lendl 2.0
he's the lendl 2.0
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Two more Slams and YEC's incoming, then.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Novak is currently the Martina Hingis of men's tennis. I would like to see him become more of a Monica Seles by the time his career comes to a close.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
What do you mean "if you say so"? Do you not think I'm an honourable poster on these boards mate?
And yes I'm gonna back my guy and say that he'll go all the way!
Of course you are. I am just having some fun with you.
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
He's being a naughty boy (or girl, I dunno).
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Legend of Borg
G.O.A.T.
girl, confirmed on other thread
Mustard
Bionic Poster
I'm not sure I understand the analogy. Both broke youngest ever records for women's tennis and had periods of domination when they were still young, and both struggled to reconquer old glories when they were older, albeit with Seles' domination having ended when she was stabbed by a crazed Graf fan and all the changes that brought on her personality and her life.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Yeah, I got some female vibes otherwise I would have just stated confidently and without a proviso due to the forum being mainly male. :twisted:
Either way, naughty boy or naughty girl, very naughty indeed.
Legend of Borg
G.O.A.T.
wait, i was talkin bout cc0509
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Because Hingis had one great year like Djokovic did and then won just two more slams after it[AO 98,99] which is similar to Nole winning AO in 12,13 after his amazing 2011. Between 99-02 Hingis was incredibly consistent, often reaching the SF/F stages of the Majors[sound familiar?] but coming up short in the end, usually to Davenport or the Williams sisters. They both also won multiple YE Championships as well as several Masters events but just couldn't quite seal the deal when it came to the really big ones. You see where I'm coming from now?
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Anyway, let's suppose Djokovic does become sort of the next Lendl, wouldn't that be pretty awesome anyway? We can expect 5 more finals, 2 more wins and 2 more YEC's then, no?
no?
no?
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
Legend of Borg
G.O.A.T.
his record in finals is gonna be like lendl soon, dunno bout the rest of his career or winnin more slams
hopefully he doesn't end up with like 20 slam final losses that would be so troll and sad at the same time
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Anyway, let's suppose Djokovic does become sort of the next Lendl, wouldn't that be pretty awesome anyway? We can expect 5 more finals, 2 more wins and 2 more YEC's then, no?
no?
At this stage Nathaniel I'd LOVE for Nole to become the next Lendl believe me! And anyway according to timnz' list isn't being RU in a slam also classed as being an achievement?
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Sure, but I much prefer the system NatF and myself are starting to devise, which doesn't rely on the current ranking system as somehow equating to greatness points -- it's a ranking system not a greatness system.
Still, we also reward being the runner-up at the Majors.
Finals appearances are no joke, they are a considerable achievement. But is it worth more than half of winning a Slam? NatF and I have it as roughly a third when judging how great a player is (not that most people care).
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I personally think being RU in a slam should be worth about half of actually winning one Nathaniel. I mean a winner gains 2,000 points and the finalist receives 1,200 so wouldn't half be about right?
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
That's how many ranking points they receive, but in terms of accomplishments I have to ask myself questions such as, what's worth more, 3 Slams and 2 RU or 1 Slam and 4 RU, and just find the argumentation for awarding more than half to be weak, because the assumption that a ranking system should correlate with a greatness system is dubious. Or indeed, what's worth more, winning Wimbledon or winning two 1000 events? Things like this help me to come to some what I believe are fair values for achievements but these evaluations are subject to change depending on public opinion. I want it to be a collaborative effort, ergo, all opinions count (including the one you just made).
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Yeah I see what you mean as you can't always just go by how many points each tournament is worth. Like you say, two Masters events brings about the same amount of points as a Slam but IMO the slam is worth a lot more than that.
On the other hand is winning 7 best of five set matches worth so much more than winning 6? I honestly don't know, but I would still argue that being a finalist is worth about half as being the champion but I can understand if others see it differently.
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
I'll remember to bring it up when revisiting the topic, chilling out on it for a while at the moment. Just for your info: Lendl wasn't hurt by our current system as we also reward handsomely for YE#1 and YEC wins. Djokovic and Lendl seem about equally good to me as players although obviously, as things stand, Lendl has achieved more with Djokovic still being planted firmly in the midst of his prime (or is he coming to the end of his best times!?)
The Hingis part definitely makes sense. Just not sure why you chose Seles for the second part is all.
Seles's glory at the top proved quite short lived too, although under totally different circumstances. Circumstances that make her almost impossible to compare to anyone, man or women, other than Maureen Connolly.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
The Hingis part definitely makes sense. Just not sure why you chose Seles for the second part is all.
I just mentioned Seles as she won 9 slams which would be a nice[and perhaps realistic] amount for Novak to achieve. At the moment though I just hope he can get to 7!!
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Like their FO prediction.
I just mentioned Seles as she won 9 slams which would be a nice[and perhaps realistic] amount for Novak to achieve. At the moment though I just hope he can get to 7!!
OK I get it now. 9 is a big mark to aim for as that would jump Djokovic from what he is now- tied with Becker, Crawford, Budge, Doherty, Wilding, Edberg, to passing all of McEnroe, Newcombe, Wilander, LaCoste, Cochet, Renshaw, Larned, Sears (7 slams), and Agassi, Connors, Lendl, Rosewall, Perry, (8 slams). What a large cluster of prestigious players to pass and be on his own. It would jump him from like 25th in slam wins to 6th.
5555
Hall of Fame
It must be embarrassing to be the bookmakers.
"Bookmakers are generally the most accurate forecasters when compared with statistical systems or expert predictions"
International Journal of Forecasting, 19(2), pages 257-270
For sure? Are you saying it's a fact that Nole is not the favorite?
It's 4 5s not 5.
5555
Hall of Fame
It must be embarrassing to be the bookmakers.
helloworld, you've lost the argument.
xFedal
Legend
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic was Favorite for RG AS WEL..
that's because everyone made the mistake of underestimating nadal at the French. Im certainly never making that mistake again and hopefully the espn experts wont either
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