Boris Becker (BB) London Club

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by TimothyO, Dec 30, 2010.

  1. neverstopplaying

    neverstopplaying Professional

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    Yes 4gms total - 8 x 2" strips. I superimpose them to make 4 x 2" strips and place on each side of the grommet on the outside of the frame at 5 & 7.
     
  2. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I might give that a try.

    Any reason why you put 2 strips on top of each other,
    instead of just using 4" strips?
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  3. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    Would you play with a midsize version w/18 mains?
     
  4. Pneumated1

    Pneumated1 Professional

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    Absolutely. What do you have?
     
  5. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    Just doing a little research.....
     
  6. Pneumated1

    Pneumated1 Professional

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    Ideally, I'd like to play with a 95" with 16 or 18 mains. Until the London, I hadn't hit a 16 main racquet for 4 years or so---at least as my main stick. It's growing on me, but as you know, Volkl's have a denser 16 main pattern than most. I still hit the ball too flat with it, though, so I guess I'm more endeared to the frame and not the string pattern.

    Is something in the making?
     
  7. neverstopplaying

    neverstopplaying Professional

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    I do put 2 strips on top of each other. I would think it makes little difference how they are set up.
     
  8. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I agree. I was just wondering if you were trying to make the weight more concentrated. Some like to spread it out as much as possible, even cutting the 1/4" tape in half, making it 1/8" wide. In he past, I always placed lead tape at 3/9 in 4-6" strips.
     
  9. Pneumated1

    Pneumated1 Professional

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    The London is a peculiar frame to customize. In my experience, the only place where lead can be concentrated is 5/7, and the outside of the frame seems to be the ideal location. This setup maintains the feel of the frame, if not improving it slightly, and makes a noticeable difference in ball bite in the other court.

    My guess is that stacking lead at 3/9 would probably be a mistake on this frame, although this has always been my go to location for mods.

    I've personally cut 1/4" lead in half and distributed it from the exact halfway point of the hoop at 3/9, down through 4/8, to the outside of the frame at 5/7, across the bridge, and through the throat. This "light" lead setup is sublime, as stability, feel, and swingweight are all enhanced without negatively affecting the qualities of the frame.

    In summary, I would recommend concentrated lead at 5/7 or the 1/8" mods from 3/9 down through the throat. I've tried everything, and these two work the best.
     
  10. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I just slapped a Becker black leather grip on one of my Londons. It added an additional 10 g's to the weight and it brought it from 5 pts HL to 8. It's now at 340 grams with overgrip and dampener. Feels about the same thickness as the regular synthetic grip. Nice firm feel. Can't wait to try it out tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2011
  11. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Anyone else playing with the London with only a leather grip as the only mod? Since the leather added 10g's to the handle, I would assume I would need to add 6-8 grams high in the hoop if I wanted to keep the original balance point? I think that would make it overall too heavy and sluggish. I tried adding 2 g's at 5/7 and that only changed the balance by barely 1/2 point. I guess I will try it first with just the leather and see if the different balance (8 vs 4) feels awkward.
     
  12. neverstopplaying

    neverstopplaying Professional

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    Personally I've never had a problem making a racquet more headlight - it doesn't affect my game. It doesn't noticeably change the swing weight, and I'm less concerned about "balance".

    I can't say the same for adding lead in the hoop and making a racquet more head heavy. This changes the playing characteristics of a racquet much more.
     
  13. Snipereyez

    Snipereyez New User

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    Jack,

    I have TW's leather grip + 4g @ 7in on the handle. Additionally, I have 1g each at 3/9 and am loving the setup. I've always hated synthetic grip because I like to feel my balls and the leather grip assenuates the feel 5x. My 2cents!
     
  14. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Just dry swinging my racquet with the leather grip doesn't feel too different. Unfortunately I didnt get a chance to use it yesterday, but I will post some impressions as soon as I get to test it out. I will try the London with just the leather (which equals adding 10g's to the handle) first and see how it feels. I won't add any weight to the hoop until I see if it needs anything. I want to keep the racquet's "whipy-ness" and don't want to make it too heavy or sluggish.
     
  15. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Can u really feel a difference with just 1g at 3/9? One gram is just 2" of 1/4" tape, right? Did u add it to the inside or outside of the frame?
     
  16. Hominator

    Hominator Hall of Fame

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    Don't forget to slap an overgrip on the leather - bare leather might be too radical a change for most people. While some people prefer bare leather, I find it way too harsh/slippery.
     
  17. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I did. Feels nice with the overgrip over the leather. The Becker leather feels very nice. Hope to get to try it out soon.
     
  18. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    Haven't tried the bbecker leather bare but the TW leather bare was nice and tacky plus not as harsh as I thought. Granted previous string was a poly and I have a multi on my TW gripped racquet now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2011
  19. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I never use any grips without an overgrip on top. It makes it feel too small and I also love the feel of Gamma Supreme Overgrips. Should ge able to try out my Becker with leather grip today.

    On a sidenote, I picked up a Volkl Organix 10-295 to test out. The specs are nearly identical to the London, so they should be interesting to compare:

    London:
    11.1oz
    4HL
    311 sw
    63 stiff
    20mm

    Org10-295:
    11oz
    3HL
    313 sw
    62 stiff
    20mm
     
  20. skeeter

    skeeter Semi-Pro

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    I've got TW leather grips on both my Londons, each with a Wilson Pro overgrip. Like the extra head-lightness and weight (about 11.8 oz total) and grip seems just the right amount of bevel feel.

    Interested in your comparison with the X295. Been reading some of the posts in the Organix thread and looks intriguing!
     
  21. skeeter

    skeeter Semi-Pro

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    If one would try lead just at 5/7, are you putting it on the outside of the frame or inside? Seems like I've heard of both in this thread and not sure what the differences would be in playing characteristics from one or the other. Thanks.
     
  22. neverstopplaying

    neverstopplaying Professional

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    I anxious to hear your comments - Organix sounds like an interesting technology. But I don't see myself leaving the Londons and play very well with them - great combination of weight, swing weight, flex, power, comfort, and enough control.
     
  23. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I think people are putting it on the outside right below where the black plastic ends. I can't imagine there would be a noticeable difference though with lead tape on the inside or outside of the frame. We are talking a difference of less than 1/4".

    The problem with lead at 5/7 is that it deosn't really do anything other than add some static weight. It's too close to the racquet's balance point to really effect balance, so unless you are adding more than 6 g's, all it will do is make the racquet feel a little heavier. Just like adding weight at 6 oclock.
     
  24. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    just had a brief hit with both......

    -Like the London with the Becker leather grip. Doesn't feel harsh t all with the overgrip and gives me more feel. I feel more "connected" to my shots.

    -I measured sw for both....the London with leather grip is 327sw and the Org10-295 is 329. I actually added about 5g's to the handle of the O10 with some masking tape to round off the handle a little and build it up from a 3/8 to 1/2.

    -The London definitely feels softer overall. It has that nice soft flex and cradles the ball (pockets) with each hit. The O10-295 feels much "firmer".
    The ball leaves the stringbed faster. It's definitely not as soft feeling as the prior generations PB10-295 was. Volkl definitely firmed things up with their new Organix line and it was quite noticeable. I'm pretty sure I prefer the softer, "pockety" feel of the London, but I will playtest it some more over the next week or so. These are just quick impressions after a 10 minute hit. The Org10-295 also seemed to be less forgiving on off-center hits. The London's sweetspot feels huge, but the O10-295 definitely lets u know when u misshit...it just goes nowhere.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2011
  25. Pneumated1

    Pneumated1 Professional

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    I personally use the 1/8" mods that I described above; however, when I get to the 5/7 location just below the DC, I jump to the outside of the frame with 2X2x1/4" strips on each side of the grommets. In other words, I build up the shoulders a little more than anywhere else. In my experience, adding weight to the outside of the frame has the most dynamic effect on whatever you're trying to acheive at that location.

    And to touch on others' comments, yes, the 5/7 mods do add static weight, but more importantly, it gives a lot more potential for spin and ball bite. As I understand it, and according to my experience, this keeps the middle/upper hoop more nimble and creates more "roll" through the swing. Just try it and you'll experience the immediate effects. Anyone who argues otherwise hasn't tried it.
     
  26. neverstopplaying

    neverstopplaying Professional

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    Jack, did you ever play with the PB9? Your O10-295 comments are similar, i.e. the balls seems to come off the racquet quicker... not quite as soft. I enjoyed the PB9s (of course with lead) as without they are lacking in plow through.
     
  27. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, I have played with the PB9, but I found them even softer than the O10-295. I will play some more tonite with both and report back, but my intial thought is that if you liked the softer feel of the PB's, you won't like the ultra-firm feel of the Organix. But if you found the PB's too soft, you will like the Organix line more.
     
  28. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Jack, after about 1 week of hitting with the HL balance, see what you prefer. I am going through that with a TGK prestige VS retail. TGK is about 10 pts HL, retail is 7, and I notice a difference. I personally prefer 6-7 points HL balance, and will probably mod the TGK to be uniform with the retails.

    It took a little time to figure out which balance I preferred.
     
  29. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I here ya. I just know when it doesn't feel "right".

    I think it also depends on the stick. If it's lighter, you need more weight/mass behind the ball. If it's +12oz, you need it to be quite headlite so the swingweight won't be too high. So I think you can't just say "I like 5 points HL"! It is whatever combination works best for that particular racquet.
    I think it's more of a balance/swingweight together issue.

    I also think that more weight in the hoop equates to more power and more weight in the hand (handle) equates to more stability and control, but maybe a bit less power.
     
  30. skeeter

    skeeter Semi-Pro

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    Great, thanks. Will give it a whirl.
     
  31. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    Sounds interesting and looking fwd to what you find.

    I currently have the following...

    Got this back in high school in '92 and hit with this from time to time

    90si 10 pts HL
    362 g 61 stiff according to local shop testing. no lead and the balance seems less HL but still a bit more in weight and balance than my London

    have since taken leather grip off and put a lighter synthetic grip and an overgrip. don't know current weight/balance.

    [​IMG]

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Got this about 4 years ago and just hit with it mainly during practice

    338 g 6 pts HL w/Tennis Warehouse leather grip and yonex super grap over grip. no lead
    [​IMG]

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm currently hitting with this during matches

    342 g 9 pts HL with BB leather grip and BB overgrip. no lead
    [​IMG]

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have been pretty happy with rotating the Wilson and Borris Becker but am considering getting another London or a similar specked Volkl.

    At the same time I'm wondering if I should play test another racquet that has stock specs similar to my London with the added leather grip...
     
  32. Pneumated1

    Pneumated1 Professional

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    Oh, I forgot to mention that I cut two pieces of 1" Gamma Head Tape about 2 1/8" long to cover the lead at 5/7. It will cover both pieces of lead on each side of the racquet. I personally don't want to look at it or touch it all the time, so the head tape covers it nicely--and adds just a touch more weight.

    I've recently experimented with another setup--after reading Shangri-La's comments:

    1gram at 12 (2x2"x1/4")
    1gram at 3/9 (4x1"x1/4")
    2grams at 5/7 (4x2"x1/4")
    1 gram in throat (2x4"x1/8")

    After putting TW leather grips on both of my sticks, I still prefer the "depolarized" setup with the 1/8" tape from 3/9 down through the throat, but this new distribution opens the sweetspot a little more towards the northern, eastern, and western regions of the hoop. Both setups have 4 grams in the hoop, 1 gram in the throat, and TW leather. The differences in distribution do create differing playing characteristics, but I like both. I still lean towards my previous setup, but I thought you might like another idea for experimentation. The main thing is not to stack a lot of weight in one area with the London, or it'll stiffen like a 2x4.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2011
  33. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Played a few sets tonite and found out a few things:

    1) Don't like the leather grip. I found it a bit too hard feeling and it also accentuated the "square-ness" of the Becker grip, which I also didn't care for. Back to the comfy synthetic :)

    2) Didn't like the added weight in the handle (+10g's). Found out I prefer the London stock, like the mfg made it. It's just so perfect for me in stock form, so why mess with a good thing?

    3) Didn't care for the Volkl Organix10-295. Really missed that nice ball pocketing and soft feel and flex of the London. Was also much lower powered than the London. I should have know better than to stray! :)
     
  34. athiker

    athiker Hall of Fame

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    I felt the same way w/ my C10 Pro. I ended up removing the leather grip that came with it (used) and replacing w/ a Volkl synthetic. The extra firm feeling of leather did nothing for me.
     
  35. skeeter

    skeeter Semi-Pro

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    Thanks, Jack. You still using the NXTC in one of your racquets? Just broke a string in one of mine and thought I'd try a full bed of NXTC for comparison. My other racquet has the gut mains/copoly crosses and am still loving that as my go-to racquet.

    FYI, tried the lead at 5/7 on the outside of the frame (2 strips, 2inches of 1/4) and actually liked the feel. The racquet seemed just a bit more stable, especially with volleys, without really increasing the swingweight in the hand. May keep the other racquet stock and see how they compare.
     
  36. OldButGame

    OldButGame Hall of Fame

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    Also agree with this,..The Bab PSLs come with leather,...to me,..feels real hard, harsh. I like the clear bevel feel,...but not the 'hardness,....makes a nice platform for overgrip though. :)
     
  37. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Not using the NXTC anymore. Switched my 3rd "practice" racquet to multi/copoly. Full bed of NXTC is good though. I just thought it lost it's appeal after about 2 weeks.

    I haven't tried lead at 5/7 but if it works for you, then great. How much is that total? Only 2 g's? Honestly...when I play it stock, it has no difficencies for me. Any mistakes are all on me and not the racquet.
     
  38. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Hey, how does the London compare to the C10 Pro? I know the C10 is meant for a more advanced player, but is it really that much harder to use than the London?
     
  39. athiker

    athiker Hall of Fame

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    Sorry, I haven't tried the London yet...just following along the London and Organix threads as in general I have liked Volkl/BB racquets (C10 Pro, Becker Pro, BB11, BB V1). At some point this summer I plan to do a TW demo w/ the London, X325 and X295.

    I don't see any reason a decent 3.5 can't play well w/ the C10 Pro. Its nice for hitting groundstrokes and the more you come to the net the more one would like it. Volleys are solid and accurate. While ground strokes are smooth I can't seem to move the ball around with quite the same ease, spin and angles I can get w/ my Fischer Mag Tours (100 sq in). It can start feeling a little heavy to me in a long singles match as well. I mostly play w/ the Mag Tours now, a bit lighter and quite a bit more HL, but I still pull out the C10s on occasion.
     
  40. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    Not advised.

    The C10 Pro is the ultimate player's soft traditional graphite frame. Thus, it gives you no aid in making-up for any technical or physical deficits. You need grooved strokes and good footwork to properly drive it; if you don't, it's like putting a teenage new driver in a Porsche and expecting him not to crash.
     
  41. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Well it is quite hefty but has a midrange swingweight of 323, so it shouldn't be too bad. It is one racquet that I always wanted to try, but I am playing so well right now with the London that I think I will wait on that one. No reason to rock the boat when it's sailing so smoothly :)
     
  42. athiker

    athiker Hall of Fame

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    I can see your point and thinking about different styles of 3.5s it may be true it wouldn't be the ideal racquet for most of them. I have a very consistent game for a 3.5/4.0 off the ground and dare say I'm quicker around the court than most so can get to balls in time to set up relatively speaking. What I lack is a put-away shot off the ground. I don't hit many winners from the baseline, especially with the C10, just a "regular" grooved topspin groundstroke that doesn't necessarily give my opponents a lot of trouble to hit. When I end a point it is by coming to the net and volleying. So that is probably why I like the C10.

    With that said when I am rushed with the C10 I don't feel I can get myself out of trouble as easily as w/ the slightly lighter and larger head more HL Mag Tours so that is likely a sign of what you are saying. I also hit more baseline winners w/ the Mag Tour b/c I feel its easier for me to move the ball more toward the edges with it vs. keeping it more near the center of my opponent's court w/ the C10. The downside is I don't volley as well with it! Oh well. So I guess I would modify my statement that some 3.5s could play "well" (for a 3.5) with a C10 if it suited their style...decently strong physically, decent serve, consistent but not dangerous off the ground and likes to go to the net. Better? :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2011
  43. athiker

    athiker Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I've never had the SW measured on my 2 sticks. They seem similar and I would guess somewhere in the 320's but TW University has some higher numbers. They list a Volkl C10 Pro and a Volkl Classic C10 Pro at 338 and 326 while the TW sale spec page has 323.

    http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/contours.php

    TM...Can you tell me difference between the C10 Pro and the Classic C10 Pro? Not in swingweight but overall racquet difference? Is it a different mold?...material?

    I have a yellow "fishscale" C10 and a black 2008 C10. Is the fishscale a "Classic"...or is the Classic a different beast all together and marked on the racquet?

    The C10 has that oval head shape vs some other more round headed racquets...sometimes I wonder if that is the key to adding stability on the volley but takes a bit away from the topspin generation...but looking at the string pattern between my C10 and the Mag Tours the openness of the pattern is barely different so I suspect overall weight and head lightness makes a bigger difference in this case.
     
  44. zumzool

    zumzool Semi-Pro

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    Hmmm. I feel that this is the exact reason to use a players frame. It forces you to improve your technical skills and get better. Using players frames has worked for me. If i don't prepare early or use my feet, i play poorly. If i used a racquet that aided my technical deficits, i just get lazy and would always have poor footwork habits because the racquet would forgive me....
     
  45. Pneumated1

    Pneumated1 Professional

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    From everything you've described above, I think you're doing yourself a disservice by not getting your hands on a London asap. The best way I can describe the London is a merging of the BB 11's and C-10 Pro's best attributes minus the drawbacks. With that said, the London is more closely akin to the BB 11, but with more control, open pattern, and imo, better feel and comfort. And I didn't mention the stability, which is insane for an 11.5 oz. racquet. If you liked the BB 11 and/or the C-10 Pro, you can do more with less with the London. Trust me. There have been a few who didn't like the London, for whatever reason. My guess is that feel is more important to some than others. But for those of us mesmerized by the traditional Volkl feel, the London maintains it while giving you more performance than most anything in its class, imo.
     
  46. Pneumated1

    Pneumated1 Professional

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    Yeah, like I told you before, he doesn't need his dad's mint 78 Monte Carlo with the rebuilt 350, keystones, and immaculate paintjob. The maroon 79 with the 6 cyl. and maroon hubs will suffice, and when he does crash, the car has a big enough frame and enough room for protection. Who knows, with enough driving progression, there may even be an 84 Z-28 in his future, but only with a small V-8 to introduce him gradually to performance.

    Okay, I'll stop at 19.
     
  47. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    It's the old "chicken or the egg" argument.

    Does the "players" racquet force you to play better or will you play better with a more "appropriate" racquet?

    Personally, I think you should have enough discipline to move your feet and set up properly for every shot that you can, regardless of what you are holding in your hands. Also, there is only so much a racquet can help when you are out of position or off balance. On the flipside, if a racquet makes you work too hard throught the course of 3 sets, then the negatives will outweigh the benefits. With the London, I hit better shots when I move my feet and set up properly, but it doesn't wear me down with too much weight or low playability. It lets me play how I want to and I like that. If you need a racquet to "force" you to move, then you need to look in the mirror.
     
  48. jnd28

    jnd28 Rookie

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    Its funny ( not in a ha ha way) that in the olden days, everyone basically learned to play with a players racquet. Starting out I used a kramer and played with it for years. Of course this way before the introduction of modern frame materials and oversize options. Yes there were frames that were harder to play with - the stan smith wilson comes to mind. But the same kramer was used by pro's as well as 12 year old newbies.

    JND28
     
  49. skeeter

    skeeter Semi-Pro

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    Colorado
    Think I'll still try out the NXTC, since I have it. What multi are you using with the copoly, or are you experimenting around?

    Yeh, the lead at 5/7 is only about 2 g's, but I notice just a bit more stability on volleys and a tad more pop on my serves. My other one is stock so still experimenting to see which I like better. So far, no negatives with the 5/7 and slight improvements. But as most folks on this thread have been stating, it plays fantastic stock, so its likely just a matter of personal preference.
     
  50. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    14,128
    Location:
    Roswell GA
    I have been using Gamma Proffesional 17g and CoPoly at 58/54 and so far it plays pretty close to the Nat Gut/CoPoly.
     

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