Boris Becker (BB) London Club

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by TimothyO, Dec 30, 2010.

  1. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    If I may steal a phrase from the SPECTARD people, the "SET-UP" which you are using, is basically the one which I first recommended. My guy used a totally lead tape covered pallet with two overgrips, which should weigh-in equivalent to your leather grip, and of course, the rest of the lead tape mods with 1/8 in tape. That's why you need to dodge traffic off the concrete bridge(I did tell about that story, didn't I?)!:)

    And yes, the London can definitely be considered a nano carbon upgrade to the C10 Pro, as does the X10, but with a totally different feel.

    How the heck can a huge road sign fall down? Did someone drive into a support? And that's like the only main road.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2011
  2. Pneumated1

    Pneumated1 Professional

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    I just had no way of knowing how incredibly stable covering the whole pallet would make the stick, whether with leather or lead, but yeah, you're right, it's was the first recommendation. If nothing else, I've learned from all of this that an even distribution of weight is most effective. All of my weight is now evenly distributed (except for 5/7 where I have 2 grams), from the butt cap through the hoop. It's nice!

    You mentioned something about getting directions over the "concrete bridge," but I'm missing the part about dodging traffic. Fill me in.


    I think any Volkl/Becker user owes it to himself/herself to take the X10 325 for a ride. I probably will whenever a demo is available.

    The infamous "concrete bridge" has a bypass running under it. Actually, there are many concrete bridges in the Hill "City," but ironically, the one in your story and mine are one and the same. Anyway, the sign hangs on the side of the bridge for those traveling the bypass. We've had some excessively windy days of late, and I'm pretty sure that the wind pulled it off the bridge. Kinda makes you question the structural engineering behind this design, huh? Not the bridge's but the sign attachment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2011
  3. skeeter

    skeeter Semi-Pro

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    Agree, modding it up too much seems to be taking the London to realms that I suspect it wasn't designed for. And I'm not comfortable with a racquet much over 12oz. I did bump the weight at 5/7 to 2 grams and played some great tennis with it today in a USTA tournament. Think I'll try the extra gram at 3/9, as you suggest, to see what that does, but doubt I'll go beyond that. But thanks for the tips; it is fun to experiment a bit and test the envelope.
     
  4. Pneumated1

    Pneumated1 Professional

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    Since we last corresponded, and as stated above, I had another outing with the leather grip. My balance issues disappeared, and I guess I would probably have to take back some of what I said to you in my previous post. I love the extra weight on the handle, as I'm getting more stability with the extra hl balance. I feel like I'm playing with an improved, upgraded C-10 Pro now. Honestly, I don't know what my sticks are weighing in at, but it's gotta be getting close to 12 oz. I've learned that weight/balance and similar issues don't mean much with a modern frame like the London.

    If you're willing to try the 1 gram at 3/9, then I would also try 4" of 1/8" lead, beginning from the exact midpoint at 3/9 down through 4/8, on both sides of the frame on both sides of the stringbed. It'll stop just short of bottom of the DC material. That will give you 2 grams total in those areas, but the distribution is more effective. See what you prefer and let me know. Take care.
     
  5. zumzool

    zumzool Semi-Pro

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    I play with 2 grams above the handle...and cover it with the band.... works great and definetly like the more head light balance
     
  6. skeeter

    skeeter Semi-Pro

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    Glad you're liking the leather grip; I've been using a leather grip on my Londons since I got them, so I'm good to go there. Will try the 1/8" strips as you suggest (in addition to the tape at 5/7 on outside frame); been curious about that since you posted it a while back. Won't be able to get back out on the courts until Friday, but look forward to trying it.
     
  7. Pneumated1

    Pneumated1 Professional

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    I almost forgot, per Maverick's recommendation, if you feel the throat flex too much (some prefer it some don't) you could also put two 4"x1/8" strips on the inside of the throat, from the top down, which will stabilize the throat and provide, imo, the perfect flex at this weight/balance. Have fun with it!
     
  8. vantageboy

    vantageboy Rookie

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    LONDON CALLING--so far this is the longest lasting string job for me vs m 55 / nxt c 52 so all is well (played better the other way around though for me). with elbow tendonosis can i look at a soft poly cross if i go 55m gut and 50c soft poly ? for a 63 flex this racquet has more comfort than softer ra #'s sticks. i just love this racquet as it has great control a touch of power and best feeling stick for touch shots. my elbow is feeling better and it might be time to pull the trigger on a back up LONDON. Thank you everyone for the help. "happiness is not the absence of problems, but the ability to deal with them."
     
  9. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I am sure u could handle a nat gut / copoly hybrid. The NXT Control is part poly and u are good with that.

    Some good soft one's for the crosses:
    -Volkl V-Pro
    -PF Black Venom
    -KB Proline2
    -WC Scorpion
     
  10. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I tried a Becker leather and didn't like it. Too hard. Felt like I was holding a hockey stick. Yes, it does let you feel the ball better, but I prefer comfort and I feel the ball just fine with the synthetic grips.
    Plus I don't want to mess up the intended balance of the frame that Becker/Volkl had in mind when they designed it. 4 or 5 pts headlite feels perfect with the light 11.5 static weight. It gives just enough weight behind the shot to let it feel solid with good plowthu. Any more headlite and it feels more solid in your hand, but there isn't enough weight directly behind the ball IMO. There is a good reason why the only sticks that are over 8 pts headlite are all +12 oz. sticks. If I were to play with a leather grip, I would have to add weight in the upper hoop to get balance back down to the intended 3-5 range and I prefer not to do that.

    I love the Volkl Cushtac grips, but Wilson makes a grip that is half leather/half syn called the Pro Hybrid. It's supposed to give you the feel of leather without the weight.
    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Wilson_Pro_Hybrid_Replacement_Grip/descpageACWILSON-WHPRO.html

    Gamma also makes the Hi-Tech which has the firm feel of leather:
    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Gamma_Hi_Tech_Grip/descpageGAMMA-GHT.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2011
  11. mattymatt

    mattymatt New User

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    Yes, I also noticed the cross string pattern is much more open at the top 1/3 of the string bed compared to any other racket I used.
     
  12. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    Just wondering, do you get control out of this string setup.? It would seem pretty much power there. Sorry for the question as it is not directly part of thread .:)
     
  13. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I wonder if that's why the sweetspot is higher than middle?

    If you really pay attention next time you are just rallying with it, when you hit a little above center, you feel that sweetspot feel, but when u hit dead center it doesn't feel as good.
     
  14. Snype

    Snype New User

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    Little update: still loving my London, and the string setup I chose is a full bed of Tecnifibre TGV 17, strung à 21 kilos in the mains, 19 kilos in the crosses.
     
  15. jonny legend

    jonny legend New User

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    BB London v Head YT Radical Pro

    I am considering both of these racquets as my new racquet as I play with an APD original and would like a more control orientated frame and slightly less still. Would anyone be able to compare the BB London with the Head YT Radical Pro? I know Jack B1 used the rad for a while.
     
  16. zumzool

    zumzool Semi-Pro

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    I have the London and demoed the yt radical pro last summer. They feel completely different. The radical pro has a really heavy swing weight and is a heavier racquet to deal with. The london is much lighter, easier to swing, and much more versatile.

    The radical pro is good for the baseliner who wants to hit heavier ground strokes while the London is for a more all-court game. Both generate spin easily but the ball quality is a little different... Heavier on the rad pro and more spiny on the London.

    I would say the yt radical pro is more demanding mostly due to the balance of the racquet. Th London is more forgiving on off center shots
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  17. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    The Radical is designed for a higher level of play; few players can properly use this stick to its full potential. One of the reasons why the London can't be kept in-stock is because it works in many parts of the court for a very popular level of play, 3.5 min.-5.0.
     
  18. jnd28

    jnd28 Rookie

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    I didn't grow up in socal and maybe I'm a little older than you, or maybe I am not from the same income bracket but my experience was quite different than what you describe. My mother was a fine player of local note. When I showed an interest in the game my choice of rackets was what was in the closet. I didn't have a coach nor did the people I played with - some of went on to to play what is now referred to as d1 tennis. We hit against a backboard and figured out the strokes and didn't have a coach picking appropriate frames. And yes I was 12 and learned with a Kramer pro staff. It was more comfortable than the trabert frame that was my alternative.
    In my day you hung around the courts and listened and watched no one I mean no one talked about the diffemce between frames. Strings yes but not frames.
    Just my my experience it sounds as if yours was quite different
     
  19. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    Dude, that post was like 7 days ago...are you OK?

    With that being said, if your mom was a well known player, wasn't she basically a/your coach?

    I was playing competitively by the time I was 12, and I was still playing with a Spalding Pancho Gonzales. I think that I switched to a Kramer in '71, but only for a short time, when I found that I played better with a Dunlop Maxply. By that time, I was both good enough and strong enough to play well with anything. My parents certainly weren't in the upper echelon, but I did belong to three outdoor clubs while in high school to increase my exposure, since once we moved from more than one town away from Port, where everyone went, my father wouldn't let my stay at home mom drive the mere 10 miles, and leave my sister out as an observer, Mr. Hopman be damned. If you remember, back in the '60s- early '70s, our parents wouldn't give us everything that we wanted.
     
  20. jonny legend

    jonny legend New User

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    Thanks for that tm but are you reffering to the Radical Pro? it seems very powerful to me and has a large head size.

    I would just say its weight is fairly demanding because its up to 345g strung.
     
  21. jonny legend

    jonny legend New User

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    Thanks for your insight zumzool I agree with you on the rad pro but in relation to you comment can you expand on the difference between heavy (rad) and spinny (london)?

    I play with a fair amount of topspin and my concern with the London is that the heads not wide enough and shots off centre could shank. Did you experience this?
     
  22. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    Weren't you referring to the Radical Pro, the stick used by some little-known British player but who can do more with the ball than any player on the planet, of which the stick is a huge factor?
     
  23. jonny legend

    jonny legend New User

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    Thanks TM I was just confirming it was the rad pro you were talking about as it seemed fairly powerful/ tweenerish to me. But I guess you had a different perspective.

    I think the consensus is on this site that Andy Murray uses a MG P Pro or
    PT57A painted as a Rad Pro.

    I really like volkl/ BB rackets as I used a BB Pro but was too powerful for me so I was looking for a racket with more controllable power, topspin and touch. I play mainly from the baseline. Maybe you can advise? Was thinking the BB London.
     
  24. zumzool

    zumzool Semi-Pro

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    Well, first I don't think you should worry about shanking with the London. Both racquets provide very large areas to hit. The nice thing about the London is that it's maneuverable and very easy to whip the racquet head through the contact zone. This whippiness generates a lot of racquet head speed so you can generate a lot of spin. This along with its long dwell time allow you to make late adjustments as to where you want to hit the ball. The ball quality isn't going to be as heavy and penetrating because of it's lighter mass so it won't push around your opponent's racquets as much as the Rad Pro.

    The radical pro hits a heavier more penetrating ball (relative to the London) due to the weight, balance ( almost even) and the mass. It still has plenty of spin, but you can't whip it like the London. It requires more prep time on your strokes, more consistency on your strokes, and the higher swingweight requires you to get that mass in the head moving. For me, the higher sw caused me to be late on some strokes because I couldn't get the racquet moving fast enough. Also, if say I wanted to make a late adjustment, like go down the line instead of cross court, it was harder to make that adjustment because of the high sw and the prep time needed on my strokes with the rad pro....The weight and the balance were a big issue for me with the radical pro....

    If you go with the London, string set ups become very important... in which case, there is a lot of info that's been discussed in this thread.
     
  25. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    The sticks in the Volkl line that you are looking for with your stated attributes have traditionally been the 10's. With the current frames, minus the PB 10 Light, which is really not a successfully well thought out frame and a mistake--from the professional POV of anyone at Volkl and anyone who does not work in an office and plays tennis above a 6.0--you are looking at the London, Legend, Melbourne, PB10 Mid/MP, and X10 295/325. If you play at a 5.0 min and above, you look at the Legend, Melbourne, and PB10 Mid. The x10's can be used at a solid 4.5 and above. If you play lower than 5.0, as low as perhaps a 3.5, look at the others. There are tons of reviews on all of these frames, and all are excellent with topspin and touch. Here is how I would rate both attributes from less to more:

    Topspin(Revised):

    PB 10 MP
    Legend/Melbourne(slightly better)
    X10 325
    PB10 Mid
    London
    X10 295

    Touch:

    X10 295
    London
    X10 325
    PB10 MP
    Legend/Melbourne(slightly better)
    PB10 Mid
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2011
  26. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Totally different types of sticks. The Rad Pro is a HEAVY BEAST of a stick requiring a long, early prepped stroke. If you have the strength to wield this thing, it does hit HEAVY groundstrokes with tons of spin, but it is a very demanding stick due to it's swingweight.

    The London is MUCH more easy to swing. Some here have even added weight to it, but it's stock swingweight (around 325-330) is just perfect for me. Unless u are playing over 4.5 level, it will not get pushed around and it great for an all court type of game. Has great touch and good for volleys too. The 98" headsize is only a fraction on an inch smaller than the 100" Rad Pro and will not be a factor at all. If you favor control over power, make sure you string it up at mid tension minimum. Lower tensions and soft strings will send balls flying more than you want.
     
  27. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^^^^^^

    Agree with everything Zum said here
     
  28. zumzool

    zumzool Semi-Pro

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    I'm going to respectively disagree on ranking the pb10 mid over the London in topspin. The lighter London is easier to get on top of the ball and the larger head size gives you more room for error.

    I found I hit flatter with the pb10 because of the smaller head size and hit more through the ball than around it. Just my experience.
     
  29. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    It's very heavy and almost even balanced. Not an easy to use combination. This was a failed racquet design IMO.
     
  30. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Powerful? yes...Tweenerish? No way. One of the TW reviewers used the Becker Pro and he said the London was close to that. You might want to check out that review:

    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/BBDCL/BBDCLReview.html
     
  31. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    My PB 10 Mids are 394 grams, 8.5 pts HL, and I can guarantee with their heavier weight, that they will get more topspin than a stock London, and there is no more room for error when I hit the ball, because I use the center of the racquet face.
     
  32. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with Zum. The pb10 is great for a traditional stroke...long, fluid and semi-flatish ball. Great for driving the ball and extending through the shot. The London is one of the easiest frames for topspin I have ever hit with. I can exaggerate the low to high swing and easily hit a loopy topspin shot with decent pace that clears the net by more than 5 feet and lands deep in the backcourt.
     
  33. rovision

    rovision Rookie

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    I would agree with TMav here. IMO, player technique is far more important than any racket you play with. In my mind, technique represents 98% of a stroke, 2% the racket used.
    As such, a player with good, solid shots, will generate top spin easily with any racket, but depending on the level of opponents he plays, he will need a lighter of heavier stick.
    In "technique" here, I include also fitness. The fact that with 10 series rackets shots seem to hit flatter and more appropriate for "old style" shot making, is a miss interpretation of the actual lack of fitness required to handle a heavier racket. It's definitely harder to swing a heavier stick fully, over the shoulder, in a window wiper stroke and hit with enough head speed and amplitude for an older, less athletic player, rather than for a young kid full of energy and using correct strokes.
    And I totally agree with TM when he said the London is a perfect racket for a 3.5-4.5 player. If you play with similarly ranked players!
    But playing against a higher ranked player, and having balls coming at you at 80-90mph and spinning... you better run for cover or stand some 20 ft. behind the baseline, if available.
     
  34. jnd28

    jnd28 Rookie

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    Good point on my mom being my coach!
    I always wanted to play with the maxpli because that is what laver played with. But I just played better with the Kramer so I always ended up going back to the Kramer. I still pull one out every now and then and it still feels remarkable! Can't hit the same shots I hit now but there is a feel for the ball that is fun to experience again.
    I'm sure you remember that there was the standard Kramer and there was also the Kramer pro staff that you could only buy from a tennis professional. Curious if you know if there was an actual difference between those frames? I pretended at the time that I could tell the difference but not sure there really was one.
    I think it is also interesting that back then you had the choice of of light medium and heavy versions of the frames.

    Jnd28
     
  35. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    He didn't say that or if he did, he changed his mind. Earlier in this thread, he was vey animate about 4.5 being the minimum level for the London.

    TW says 4.0 and I agree. I am almost a 4.0 and I have no problems using the London.

    I disagree that tennis success is 98% technique and 2% racquet. I played an opponent the other day I usually am very even with, but tried a different racquet for this day other than my usual London and the results were horrible. I wasn't anywhere close to my usual level of play and the racquet played a major part in that. True, there is an adjustment period, but my play fell off a lot more than the 2% you credit the racquet for. I would say it's closer to 70/30 for technique/racquet.
     
  36. zumzool

    zumzool Semi-Pro

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    I have no problems with fitness or hitting with a heavier racquet. I actually prefer it. The issue is with the head size where there is less room for error and effects consistency.

    In either case, I still found it easier to generate topspin with the london. When I judge the two racquets, I'm still using the same technique so my results are relative to me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011
  37. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    How true. Lots of folks here assume what works for them works for everybody.
     
  38. rovision

    rovision Rookie

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    Well, if you mention "error"... that's my point! :) A good stroke should not allow errors, right?! Where this possible error comes from? Lack of positioning, lack of fitness, lack of correct stroke, lack of confidence, and maybe 2% variation in racket type, strings, etc.

    BTW, TMav, I'm not sure if you have it, but you should add the term "TESTARDS" to your thesaurus! :)
    The amount of time some people (myself somewhat included) put into testing different options on rackets... it's amazing.

    I wonder when they'll come up with built-in dials to adjust on-the-fly aspects of sticks?
     
  39. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I love to "playtest" new racquets or try different string setups on my racquets. But once I found natural gut / copoly for my London, the testing has really died down. Kinda miss it :)

    I am guessing by "options", you mean strings, tensions, lead tape, leather grips, non-leather grips, etc?
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011
  40. rovision

    rovision Rookie

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    Don't worry, they'll come up with more sticks next year! How about the rest of brands? Plenty of testing available there. ;)
    Yeah, that's what I meant by "options". You can add shoes (weight is apparently a big issue there too), socks, sunglasses, wrist bands, hats, underwear... the list goes on.
    Of course, everybody is different, so please, don't take any offense here.

    Now back to my own testing program: messing with lead on my stick these days. And waiting to test PB10 and OX325. BTW, you people need to return your demos on time, OK! ;)
     
  41. zumzool

    zumzool Semi-Pro

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    If you have a good stroke that hits the ball in the center, more power to you. But then, why would you even need to consider the London. Your talking about a limited number of people, whereas I'm talking about more of the general population.

    For me, I like room for error because I'm not one who hits in the center all the time and the London's large sweet spot is forgiving for me. Whether I have great technique or poor technique, I'm still able to generate top spin easily.... That's not to say the PB10 doesn't generate top spin too, but it's not as easy nor feel I get as much as the London.
     
  42. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    That's cool. That is the difference between an objective and subjective review. I always give objective reviews, unless otherwise noted.

    On the X Club thread, I objectively reviewed the X6/8/10 with two of my players who are 6.5's. On the X10 vs PB 10 Mid, I specifically reviewed the sticks subjectively--how they related to me tools in-particular. If memory serves, I reviewed the London, and commented on it, in objective terms, and discussed one of my players, a 6.0, use of it subjectively, on this thread, and/or on the original and ten times better london thread that the Kleenex Krew had removed with tears.

    With that being said, the PB 10 Mid is softer, and its string bed is more open, which is why it hits with more spin.
     
  43. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    Actually, I only sorta kinda remember the JK Pro Staff. If memory serves, it was stiffer and more powerful. Perhaps someone on the classics thread would remember it better. The Pro Staff that I remember was Stan Smith's, but I'm not totally clear. His racquet was really stiff.

    Even better than light/heavy, Snawaert offered frames in weight by gram and balance points by mm.
     
  44. tenfan

    tenfan New User

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    Strings dilemma

    Hi BB London fans,
    I need a bit of advise on which strings should I put on my BB London. I am having problems hitting penetrating shots with this racquet so I am after something that has a little bit more power than my current setup (PSGO 17).
    So far I tried:
    Volkl Gripper 17 55lbs, didn't like it, I prefer something crispier.
    PSGO 17 55 lbs, too little power, shots are kind of short.

    I can't play with poly strings, and I am not really a fan of hybrid combinations.

    I usually play with a full bed of syn gut, so I am asking you which syn gut strings could provide more power than the PSGO. Have any of you tried a full bed of syn gut strings on the BB London?

    Thank you.
     
  45. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    I'm in with you to a point, but I have a multitude of health issues, and the older I get, the better I used to be. Even if I hit to exhaustion, which I almost always do, my racquet technique is not affected, and my hitting partners are under thirty, and all 6.0-6.5, and occasionally, better. If I even stop because my shoulder is breaking down, I stop to remain healthy, not due to fatigue, and nor my FH or service racquet technique is affected. Keep in mind that I am moving into FOP territory for a tennis player, so stroke precision, has nothing to do with energy, and most pro tennis players, are far less athletic that other pro athletes, so if you are an athlete first and a tennis player second, your opponents have much to deal with.
     
  46. vantageboy

    vantageboy Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    251
    Love TMavs advice as he is spot on--if arm trouble try babolat power excel string-nice bit of power holds tension well. since he informed us LONDON holics about lowering the tension on the cross the whole string bed became HUGE .Listen to this TennisMaverick
     
  47. tenfan

    tenfan New User

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    19
    Thank you for the advise, TennisMaverick. I read about dropping the crosses tension, but I guess I didn't believe it.
    Cheers :)






     
  48. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    14,128
    Location:
    Roswell GA
    SVP, If you don't want to read his posts, you do what I did awhile ago and click his name and choose "ignore". Works like a charm. Unfortunately it doesn't take away when someone else quotes him, but you can't have everything I guess?
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011
  49. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,293
    Just ignore me dude. How many times do you need to be told that we live in totally different environments, and if the vernacular in mine causes you an issue, ignore me. No one who hits a ball were I go would have an issue with what I say; I'm pretty moderate. Why do you insist on following me all over the Volkl threads, when you don't even use the sticks, to monitor what I write?

    BTW: I'm only into women.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  50. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,293
    That's too funny. I can relate to that because its like rotating girlfriends. But spec monkeys? They're so challenged that they have had to change the name of their country to Specmoeland to be more PC, and have been ordered to refer to themselves as Specmoelandians.
     

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