Bread and butter serve

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by dlam, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. dlam

    dlam Rookie

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    If you are down 30-40 and miss 1st serve
    Pressure is on facing 2nd serve
    What is your bread butter serve on the ad side you know you will get in?
     
    #1
  2. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Kicker down the middle if my opponent does not have a huge forehand to take a whack at it.
     
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  3. Govnor

    Govnor Professional

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    Simple slice down the middle.
     
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  4. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

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    Anything that lands in.
     
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  5. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

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    In seriousness.....there is one guy I play (good pal....the guy Ive played the most against for sure) so he has seen my ball literally thousands of times. So, there is no fooling him....he knows whats coming.

    In that case, I will DF alot more than usual, as I know exactly what hes going to try and do with a 2nd serve that is not hit well. He is going to run around it and bash a crosscourt FH on deuce side and DTL on the ad side. (My BH is better than my FH.) So, when I know he is going to do this, and be successful like 80-90% of the time, I will "go for it" on the 2nd and try to kick the you know what out of it to his BH. I figured the odds are higher than just hitting one that lands in the middle of the service box.
     
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  6. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    try big kick out wide to open the court
     
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  7. Tammo

    Tammo Banned

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    typo wrong thread
     
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  8. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    Topspin serve to the backhand.
     
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  9. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Same here (assuming opponent is righty). Topspin 2nd serve wide on ad court is very reliable for me.

    I make a distinction between topspin and kicker, which I'm not sure everyone does. Decent kicker is lower percentage for me.
     
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  10. dlam

    dlam Rookie

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    what happen if he's lefty?

    topspin serve to his forehand ? (same serve?)
     
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  11. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    My serve out wide is far more reliable on the Ad side. If I was facing a lefty I would hit more of a body serve- he would still be able to hit a forehand off of it but hopefully he wouldn't be set up. In that situation my first serve would have been the topspin serve up the t- but I wouldn't trust myself to really go for the T on a second serve in a tight situation.
     
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  12. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Topspin serve either kicked or top/slice depending on backhand return skills of the opponent.
     
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  13. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Twist down the T. Most guys don't read a twist that well, so they jam themselves pretty easily. :)

    -Fuji
     
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  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Matters little WHAT serve you hit.
    Matters TONS how well you hit it, place it, and what you do to back it up.
    At most levels, you can TELL the opponent what serve you're going to serve, and it won't matter one tiny bit.
     
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  15. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Is that a high percentage 2nd serve for you?

    I would unfortunately be serving many DFs with that strategy :cry:
     
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  16. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Yup! Since I have a lame shoulder right now due to injury (from playing badminton nonetheless) I can't hit big bombs anymore. My biggest reliable first serves right now are at around the 80MPH mark. With that being said, I have been restricted to hitting with a ton of different spin varieties, thus my twist serve has gotten a fair amount of extra practice. I only double fault maybe once every set, if that?

    -Fuji
     
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  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I'm with Fuji....
    Since last week, I've been using an AmericanTwist exclusively for my second serves, and for most of my first serves. Don't think I missed more than 5 total in 3 playing days and over 9 sets of tennis.
    I lost my Twist a month ago, and am looking for it still.
     
    #17
  18. Drew_a_blank

    Drew_a_blank New User

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    For playing a right-handed player, a kick serve out to their backhand, ideally so they have to make contact from at least in the alley.
     
    #18
  19. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I will my usual slice serve and DF. Sorry.
     
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  20. SwankPeRFection

    SwankPeRFection Hall of Fame

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    Something offensive and strong. It's always better to go for it and make the return more difficult than to just serve and get it in just to have it bashed back at you. What's good about not DF if the return is a winner anyway? You still lose the point. Learn to hit a strong second serve no matter what. Sometimes I even go for an ace on the second serve and get it when I'm down. People that I don't play much with are surprised. People I always play with know to expect it from time to time and know that sometimes the second serve is even more aggressive (kick wise) than the first was.
     
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  21. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Kick out wide against a righty. If he's been running around it, from the same toss, kick down the middle.
     
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  22. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    On Add side, most dependable 2nd serve is kick out wide. I would go with that unless opponents weapon is wide, then I would try kick down the middle.
     
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  23. jmnk

    jmnk Professional

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    it seems some of you guys should try for the tour. the options you have on second serve while facing a break point, the variety of direction and pace... at least Cindyspinx is honest..

    oh, and this:

    is probably too much information.... ;-)
     
    #23
  24. slowfox

    slowfox Professional

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    Mild kick to the body. I'm trying to change the mild part to massive... :)
     
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  25. S&V Specialist

    S&V Specialist Rookie

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    Flat serve down the T. Stuns them mentally and allows for much easier deuce points. If for some reason my flat serve isn't seeming too reliable then I go with a kick serve to their backhand.
     
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  26. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Do you normally hit flats off one side more so than the other, or do you do it pretty much 50/50?

    -Fuji
     
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  27. S&V Specialist

    S&V Specialist Rookie

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    Pretty much 50/50.
     
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  28. fleabitten

    fleabitten Semi-Pro

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    ON most opponents, a kicker to the backhand. If I am extra tight, I'll put it right in the middle of the box with very big kick.
     
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  29. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Love how everyone here has reliable big kicker 2nd serves.

    I must be playing with the wrong crowd of 4.5s. Of about 30 people in my regular circle, probably only 2 or 3 have a 2nd serve that consistently kicks above shoulder height.

    Wish I had that serve :cry:
     
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  30. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    Kicker to the backhand or body.
     
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  31. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    It may not kick above the shoulder every time, but at least I know the spin will bring it in. Much more reliable than my flat serve.
     
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  32. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Guess it's a matter of definition then.
    When I think "kicker", I think "shoots up high off the court".
    Otherwise, it's just a serve with some top on it.
    Agree that 2nd serves should always have some top or top/slice - pretty much the norm at 3.5 or so and above.
    But top is not the same as kick, at least for me.
     
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  33. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Lately is has been a kicker that has a pretty good high bounce.

    Can't believe I am saying that as my kicker was hot garbage for years.
     
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  34. dlam

    dlam Rookie

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    ty , I find the kicker out wide has been my high percentage serve to get in on the ad side.
     
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  35. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Normally kickers are around 6 foot and higher right? So if your strike angle so high enough off the ground, even with a little bit of spin it should jump to at least around 6 foot. It's just getting enough RHS to get that spin. :)

    -Fuji
     
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  36. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Yes, I'd go with that...

    Yes and no; even though your strike height is maybe 8-9 ft high, the ball loses speed in flight and more energy/speed on the bounce. So absent any spin, it will only bounce say 4 or 4.5 ft high (guestimate), depending on how hard you can hit it (e.g. a flat serve at 90mph). So you need to generate maybe 2 ft more with spin, and that's assuming a 90mph 2nd, which most rec players are not going to be hitting.

    Bottom line is I don't come across many players at 4.5 level and below who can get a 6 ft or higher bounce period on 2nd serve, let alone have it be a consistent serve that they can hit at will under pressure.

    Like I said, maybe it's just that I'm playing with the wrong crowd.
     
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  37. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nah..mine is around 5.5 feet now which is enough to stay out of most players zones, but not enough to be a weapon yet.

    I believe I can get mine to bounce higher. I already got it to twist, which is a rather rewarding way to win a point.

    Baby steps.
     
    #37
  38. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Me and you both, brother.

    We seem to be the minority here though. Most everyone else puts us to shame.
     
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  39. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Haha, I'm sure it has nothing to do with your crowd. 4.5 is still just rec tennis after all. It all comes down to practising your second serve, I pretty much solely practice my kicks and twist these days, so it's what gets better, right? :) I definitely want to get some serve videos up soon!

    I don't think speed really is a factor though, it's just how much forward motion you are putting into your kick, vs how much spin you are putting on. To get a really high kick, it's hitting more up into the ball, rather then forward into the ball. Obviously if you are doing a "power" kick and hitting a ton through the ball, the bounce won't be as hight, but it will be a heavier serve that can be used in really any situation, which is what I assume Powerplayer and yourself are doing. Great serve to use, but if you are just looking to maximize bounce, it's not ideal. :razz:

    -Fuji
     
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  40. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I used to play with a couple of guys who regularly twisted their second serves well over my head. I'm 5'11" and it was less than 3 years ago.
    Of course, they were former 5.5's, but the "then" rating might be top of the heap 4.5's.
    Either way, they're too good for me to practice with nowadaze..
     
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  41. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    if you're not chasing ATP points, it's all rec tennis, actually...

    I just kick it into the body as best I can, works all right.
     
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  42. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Amen! :razz:

    -Fuji
     
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  43. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I find some players, regardless of 3.5 or 5.5, can handle body shots really well, while some other's can not, almost fall over themselves trying to get out of their own way.
    Makes a difference.
    Same with the first serves. Some reach better to return, while other's have a spot in space then can defend REALLY well, while leaving other spots almost unguarded.
    Or maybe I"m just overanalysing the situation, and I should just shut up and get in shape.
     
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  44. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    Same here. I'll try to direct it wide to get it to the backhand if I'm getting killed on the forehand.
     
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  45. Overdrive

    Overdrive Legend

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    My second serve is still my first serve, except it's to the backhand if my opponent is right handed/weak backhand.
    If left handed, forehand.
    If he has equally good strokes, a serve to the body.
    :)
     
    #45
  46. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    My second serve "kicker" probably comes about 5 feet off the court. It has enough movement to not get smacked, most of the time. At the open level I better be ready to scramble :) I try to get it into the body, if I feel really good I put it out wide on the ad.
     
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  47. Ace of Aces

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    Flat at the body in pressure situations. It forces your opponent to make a quick decision what to do with it instead of serving to one side or the other.
     
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  48. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    The most fun I have in my regular tennis routine is when I have a second serve break point down against my friend who has a tremendous 2H backhand serve return. I'll hit my kick serve to the backhand to the sideline. My strength against his. He knows what I'm going to do and it's just a question of how well I can do it. One-on-one, who is better? I love the challenge.
     
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  49. dlam

    dlam Rookie

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    My flat ones tend to be long
    I will try on the first serve but I have setup with racket bouncing ball to tossing hand to get the proper rhythm in my set up
    The kick ones are more reliable as if I can clear the net and still spin in or if I hit the net cord it will spin in for a let
    The flat ones there is less margin of error as the same clearance above the net on the flat serve might be long and if I hit net cord with a flatty serve it can bounce out
    Someone as tall as Isner (who super tall) might be have more options and less margin of error
     
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  50. S&V Specialist

    S&V Specialist Rookie

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    If you really jump up and attack the ball way out in front of you, your margin for error increases greatly. Height is a large factor too. Deep knee bend and strong weight transfer allows you to create more leverage and thus more margin for error (not to mention the extra speed and higher bounce).
     
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