Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by WARPWOODIE, Oct 22, 2009.
the WTA's davydenko?
I thought all bets were off if a player retired?
This definitely needs to be punished; you can't do something like this. It completely undermines the integrity of the game it's a blatant fix and she should be suspended for 6 months-1 year, and if she does it again she should get a 2 year suspension. You have to come down hard in tennis like this because it's the easiest event in which you can fix games, point shave, etc. and should not be tolerated.
I don't think you understand. She was injured and let the home favorite Kramer compete instead of giving her opponent a walk over. Kramer then played (and lost) a fun 3 setter instead of the fans getting to see nothing at all.
Exactly this. It seems like she did it entirely for the benefit of the sport.
Depends on how you bet and what you are betting on.
a new cheater is born in the WTA:evil:
There's nothing here. She was just a GS finalist - she's not going to pull out of some minor tournament for a few bucks.
Clearly wrong, she should have tanked and let the other player have the satisfaction of beating her or won the match and withdrawn with injury.
It looks very bad and she should be suspended for a year.
The whole issue is completely stupid. She pulled out because she was injured... which was obvious if you were watching the match.
The girl she was playing was from Luxembourg and rather than a walkover for her next opponent... she chose the noble path and let her opponent continue playing in front of her home crowd.
I don't believe she would do that, and make it so obvious. She really seems like a geniunely nice person and it would be within her character to do something like this for an opponent.
this made yahoo news too http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/blog/bu...-s-good-deed-leads-to-WTA-inve?urn=ten,197641 I think she was just being nice letting anne kremer have the match, but what did her dad actually say in polish?
Speaking of penalties, has any further penalty been announced for Serena's meltdown at the USO?
Beyond the $10,500 fine she received shortly after the incident, that is.
There was talk that the Grand Slam committee had started an investigation that could lead to further fines and sanctions.
This way the audience gets TWO good matches. This one - almost an entire match of both players playing their hardest - and the next one, where two uninjured players will play.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, and Moose found the reference for it, this isn't at all unprecedented, and had happened in the past, and was considered GOOD sportspmanship. And you're saying she should TANK? Tanking is never acceptable.
Winning and then retiring would be acceptable, but this alternative is better for the crowd - and if the player is willing to take a hit to their prize money or rankings for the sake of fans, that's something that should be *encouraged*, not penalized!
Why would betting continue after a match has begun? Betting on a match should be closed once the first ball has been struck.
No wire for me
That's the $64k question. All bets should be placed and counted before the first ball is tossed into the air.
With the fallout from this incident, I don't think many coaches will be interested in wearing a wire. If I were a coach I'd refuse to wear one.
I am really disgusted about this, Wocniackis father is an idiot.
I hope they ban her for 2-3 years, she would totally deserve that, newly rich people often think they can do whatever they want!
Did you even read the article? She did the right thing by retiring since he was injured, and couldn't play in the next match even if she won...
Some people... *sigh*
She should be suspended. No doubt she broke the WTA rules AND there are some big questions on the betting part. I would suggest that the WTA conduct a investigation into whether her father was in collusion with any gamblers.
Sorry to say that I am one of her biggest fans, too.
How was her father even allowed to talk to her in the middle of the match?
Not sure she broke any rules, I am not an expert, but she broke the spirit of the game.
Investigation should be concluded, IMHO, should suspended or sth.
^^^^^What exactly are the WTA rules pertaining to this issue....in that she quit 1 game away from winning her match @ 5-0 in the second set?
Regardless of whether or not she did the right thing, once her dad opened his mouth (which is against the rules) she was obligated to finish that match win or lose. I'm sure the investigation won't turn up any signs of match-fixing but you've got to expect some sort of scrutiny in this situation.
Wozniacki appears quite a lovley gal, great too for the sport. But this "strategerie" really damages the integrity of the game.
There are just too many retirements and withdrawals, disinterest, mandatoyr half heart appeances, tanks to kep the sport vialbe. Worse, fans, remember them?, do not know what they will get in non slams these days from top players. All they do is position for slams, and the tour be damned. How rare is it now for many events to get players of note who are serious. No, not good at all. If there is appearance $$ still given it must be banned. If a top player is not there to win, they should not appear at all!
Not unless you were around her
If they suspend her it just looks like they support sports betting, as if they are avenging the loss of those who bet on wozniacki.
As for bets, maybe some sites let you place bets during match???? That sounds crazy though. The only thing would be if she was in on a bet and faked injury, but why make it so obvious by leading 5-0? No she's innocent. But kinda stupid.
Well if the WTA won't stand up to Serena and do anything to her why in hell should they do anything to Wozniacki? She did the noble thing by letting her opponent win and guarantee a match in the next round. First off, turn off the mics to the coaches. Why do we need to to even overhear their discussions with their players? Did any of you people even watch the match or even better, read the article? You people are so quick to hasty judgements. There's no middle ground with you all. It's either you're a messiah or satan in this forum.
STUPID STUPID. Innocent girl getting punished. Naive girl not knowing the rules fully tries to be NICE to her fellow player and let her advance. knowing she will have to pull out of the 2nd round match if she advances.
WTA STUPID. that should be their new name for 2010.
On court coaching is allowed in the WTA. He's her coach, he spoke to her at the end of the first set.
Would you really wish that on her? She clearly had the fans' interests above her own, but let's all condemn her. Idiot.
Are you insane??? I even know her AND HER Swedish coach!! But all her Swedish and Danish fans are really upset the way she and her dad handled this situation! You need to STFU!
If her father was in collusion with any gamblers, I doubt he would have told her to retire while wearing a mic. I'm sure he would have been more subversive about it. Give me a break.
You know her and you still wish a 2-3 year ban on her? You don't think that's a little strong? She's a sweet girl and there's no way in hell she retired for any gambling-related reasons. She has too much to lose, nothing to gain, and she's not an idiot. I'm not sure how cutting her a little slack makes me insane.
Ive talked to her a couple of times, yes she is a nice girl. I also know her coach pretty well,. Although... as many WTA-dads her dad is a wellknown idiot. Do you mind explaining to me why he said what he said to her in Polish? Why not in English? And do you mind explain to me why there Polish accounts all over the world whoearned millions of dollars on this match?
I made some research about this betting practice:it's called "live betting".Most online sites allow it and it's legal.
WTA should make it mandatory or ban on court coaching.
I highly doubt Woz's father told her to stop because of betting. I"m sure he was looking out for the health of his daughter.
If I'm not mistaken, Polish is his first language. I'm not sure if in your last sentence you're trying to refer to their Polish accounts or if you are saying that there are Polish accounts that earned millions of dollars on this match, so I can't really respond.
Let me fill you in, lots of Polish players around the world who had accounts on Betfair and Bet365 made millions of dollars on that match. They placed HUGE bets on Wocniackis opponent when she was down 0-3 in second set, 0-4 in second set, at 0-5 no more bets came in, 10 seconds later she gave up.
Piotr speaks perfectly fine Danish, and reasonable English.
Any proof to back that up? (I'm not saying it's can't be true).
To make a long story short, Piotr Wocniazki is responsible for Betfair and Bet365 losing millions of dollars on this match, they are gonna complain about it to the WTA and possibly take it to court, where they clearly will win the case. With a suspention on Caroline and/or Piotr might follow.
Yes I do, give me a minute and i will dig up the source for you, do you understand Swedish or Danish?
Polish is their first language; why would they use some other one?
The bettors placed those bets because they HEARD what he said - it was broadcast live on the internet.
Well the bets were placed because you could hear him on TV tell her to quit because it wasnt worth it and she wouldnt be able to play the next match anyway.
If gambling was legal in the US and I would have heard that I could have gone onto the site and placed the bet myself. I do not think Woz did anything wrong in this situation. Maybe the dad needs to be investigated. But I think this was just some fans who understood the situation making the right bet at the right time.
I would want to see some proof as well.
Perhaps he thought that if he said it in English even more people would place bets. I can't read minds so I can't tell you why he said it in Polish.
Also, I would think that many of those bets will not be paid out due to this controversy.
Well yes, i know!
So now her dad needs to proove that he had nothing to do with the Polish players who won millions of dollars on this match, maybe Caroline doesnt give her dad a nice allowance-money every month ?!:twisted:
I agree with this.
Thats why it is such a big controversy, the players want their money of course, and Betfair and Bet365 are not willing to pay up.
Also for those curious you can bet on the match at any time.
Bet fair is basically a middle man for bets placed between two people.
So lets say in this case Woz was up 4-0 in the 2nd set and you thought it was a positive she wins the match. I say the girl comes back and will win.
you give me 10 to 1 odds becasue the gap is so big. if woz wins you win a dollar if she loses I win 10 dollars.
You can bet on stuff like if the serve will be fault or good. Any bet you want to make more than likely someone else will make the opposite bet just to bet.
Betfair takes a cut of the exchanges regardless never using thier own funds to pay the winner all exchanges are between the parties involved (like the bay with an e). At least thats my understanding of the situation. Like I said its illegal to do in USA
Every time she's gotten on court coaching, in every other instance, in every other occasion, it has been in Polish...her and her father's first language.
In Scandinavia people are laughing at the online forums (including this one) who praised her for showing sportsmanship!
Court? What case does Betfair or Bet365 have?
Does the WTA has any contracts with Betfair/Bet365 that were broken by this? I would expect not.
What would they sue the WTA for? Wozniacki probably broke some internal WTA rules, but it's entirely up to the WTA whether to do something about it (and they shouldn't - this way the fans got better matches, and the WTA shouldn't care if betting companies lose money. WTA cares about match-fixing because it's in the interests of the WTA to always have players play their best, not because they care about the financial well-being of the betting companies.)
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