calling all two-handed backhanders!

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Ross K, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. ShcMad

    ShcMad Hall of Fame

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    My question is not directed to any specific person, but just to the general 'fellow 2-handers' lol.

    It seems like some players, such as Safin and Connors keep a relatively open racquet face on the racquet takeback on the backhand side. Other players, such as Nadal and Igor Andreev, keep a closed face during that same phase. By 'open racquet face' I mean the stringbed side that's gonna make contact with the ball is facing the sky at a slight angle, and with 'closed face' I mean the opposite when the stringbed faces the ground at a slight angle.

    Of course there are exceptions to this observation I made. Sometimes players will tend to close/open the racquet face depending on the height of the incoming ball and other variables, but I'm just speaking in terms of a normal waist-height rally ball.

    I wonder how a guy like Safin can still manage to bring the racquet to make contact with the ball square on even starting off with a relatively open racquet face. Since making contact with an open face would most likely make the ball sail long, the timing would have to be perfect in order to make square contact with the ball. What I find amusing is that Safin finds a way to close that racquet face when he initiates the forward swing; therefore, making perfect contact with the ball.

    Sometimes on bad days, when my backhand balls tend to catch the net, I try to consciously keep a relatively open racquet face on the takeback, and that prevents me from hitting the net most of the time. However, I also run the risk of hitting the backhands long.

    What are the benefits of the racquet positioning (closed or open face) during the takeback, and how can I still hit good topspin while I start out the forward swing from an open-face position?

    Here's a picture of what I'm talking about regarding an open-face takeback:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. bluestreak711

    bluestreak711 Rookie

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    go to this site and click on "Topspin backhand with Bill Tym"

    he shows both the 1 hand and 2 handed BH


    http://uspta.com/index.cfm/MenuItemID/1644/MenuGroup/New-USPTA-Education.htm
     
  3. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Bluestreak711,

    Thanks for link.


    ShcMad,

    Good to see another real 2hbh afficianado/obsessive posting on this thread! (Btw, how's your one progressing thesedays? Mine's altered a bit since we we were discussing Agassi a while ago. Just working on consistency really, though I look forward to the day I can really generate some of that Agassi/Safin-like pace... if I could only have a quarter of that power and velocity, why I'd... hmmmmmm... sell my soul!...) Anyway, I hope someone can answer your question as it interests me too. Btw, great picture of Safin... Oh! Which reminds me...

    Hey everybody!... pictures and links... DO post them!
     
  4. bluestreak711

    bluestreak711 Rookie

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    No Problem but i'm gonna have to thank swissy she gave that link to me on my thread
     
  5. fearless1

    fearless1 Rookie

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    You'll generally see this with straight arms 2hb being hit flat or slice. It all goes back to the pendulum swing plane...I know...it was agreed that we don't use this term anymore. All I can say is this...although the racquet face is open on the backswing, it will be square for flat shot by the time the racquet is hitting the ball. An extreme similarity is a golf swing. When a golfer is at full "backswing", the club shaft is parallel to the ground and the club face is facing skyward. However, by the time the club head is hitting the ball, the club face will be facing forward.

    Best recomendation...it's alright to notice this little peculiarity, but when actually hitting a 2hb yourself, definitely don't think about it.
     
  6. ShcMad

    ShcMad Hall of Fame

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    Yo Ross, It's good to see you're still trying to improve on your 2-handed backhand constantly. I think I'm at a similar stage as you...just trying to improve on my consistency. I have my form down, but my consistency is still not there yet.

    I know we're both coming from the 1-handed backhand family, and it can be frustrating sometimes when our 2-handers don't click, but I think time and practice solves most issues. What I love about the 2-handed is that it's much easier to generate more power with less effort.

    As we discussed about Agassi's backhand earlier in the year, I tend to find that most troubles on my backhand side are caused by the right hand dominating too much. When I leave my left hand to do about 80% of the work, I find it to work much better.

    Anyways, let's hope we can ultimately master the 2-handed backhand. Cheers, mate!
     
  7. Sup2Dresq

    Sup2Dresq Hall of Fame

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    If you post Safin's picture Shcmad will come */end Field of Dreams voice*
     
  8. ShcMad

    ShcMad Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the response. It intrigues me how players still manage to have a square face on contact time after time.
     
  9. ShcMad

    ShcMad Hall of Fame

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    Oy! That's not funny! (Eric Cartman voice) I just like Safin's overall game. That's all. No man crush or anything like that.
     
  10. 300Gkid

    300Gkid Professional

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    YES, after all the hours i have spent pouring over this thread and hi-tech tennis the thing that made my backhand is something completley different. It turns out i was doing the right thing with my arms but was stepping over waay too much and i think it might have been preventing some rotation? Anyway, so i now have a straight or even slightly open stance, rotate a ton and while i cant say it is a weapon MY BACKHAND IS NO LONGER A LIABILITY (lol at my level anyway :D )
     
  11. Sup2Dresq

    Sup2Dresq Hall of Fame

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    I believe you now. But if I see you wearing an bunch of gold necklaces, dating hot models and growing a fu-man-chu (sp) I'm calling you out. Well maybe not the hot model part.
     
  12. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    300Gkid, I'm glad you feel your 2hander has at least improved and stabilzed. It's also good to hear you've spent some time delving into this thread - I think it's a kind of testimony to all those more experienced 2handers who've posted and passed on some of their knowledge here. Hopefully, this will continue over time, and this thread can be viewed as a valuable 2hander reference.
     
  13. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Came across this quick bh tutorial earlier this morning. What do ppl here reckon? (I dread to think!) Personally I think it's not bad at all if you're a beginner or you've never had coaching. I like his comments on lining up ball with left knee and right shoulder (as I myself, was advised to do on this very thread all those months ago.) Also like the way he goes side-on to camera to show you his C shape swing-path. Okay, it's pretty basic, there's zero on grips, and there's a slight resemblance in looks and manner to both the Keanu Reeves character from Bill & Ted's Ex Adventure and Wayne from the Wayne's World films!... but if you're very new to the 2her, I say you could do a lot worse than watch this... Fingers crossed that the link works...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh_5vQCM1j4
     
  14. ShcMad

    ShcMad Hall of Fame

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    Hey Ross, just in case you wanna see how sucky my 2-handed backhand is...here is a very small clip showing just that:

    [​IMG]

    The wind was blowing hard that day so the ball was constantly landing short on my side, so I'm making contact at knee-level on those two backhands.
     
  15. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    ShcMad,

    Can't seem to open link. Thanks anyway - I do think threads are usually enhanced a lot by ppl sending in links, vids, etc.
     
  16. ShcMad

    ShcMad Hall of Fame

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    Oh...hmm...try this link:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=g6OjOObm99A

    Next time, I'll make sure to film something worthwile watching. Not this kind of low-quality tennis! :sad:
     
  17. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Okay. Cheers. I've opened the link now.

    Well, the way my bh was malfunctioning today - (the term 'complete breakdown' springs to mind) - your doesn't look so bad actually. I mean, obviously due to the poor weather conditions, your bh was adversly effected. However, I can't have any excuses. After the fourth game it just quickly fell apart... I was continually hitting across myself in an ungainly and awkward manner... there were quite a few framers/mishits... in the end I even started going 1h quite a bit (which is something I never do that much)... With me the usual suspects are most often forgetting footwork and getting side on to ball and stepping into the shot, or it's not allowing the left arm to lead and control the shot... whatever... right now I'm not in the right frame of mind to analyze it really... God, why didn't I just stick to football (or 'soccer', for you Americans and Australians) - it's so much easier!

    Anyway, I'm sure your 2her's progressing a lot better than mine at the moment...

    Btw, your appearance is ever so slightly different from your avatar/picture, ShcMad?!
     
  18. ShcMad

    ShcMad Hall of Fame

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    HAHA... Did you think that was me on the avatar? :eek: Oh, I'm sorry if I disappointed you! But that's actually my wife on my avatar.
    (My wife-to-be which is...Daniela Hantuchova ;) )

    Anyways, back to the topic. I wish I knew how to help you, but I have no clue how you hit the 2-hander or what's wrong with it without witnessing it. Even then, it'd be hard for me to help you since I'm not an expert myself. :(

    As you said, footwork is really important. For me, trouble on my backhand side arises when my right hand does too much of the work. So, I have to constantly try to train my left hand to do the work and drive through the ball with the left. I try to keep the right hand and wrist flexible from the beginning to the end of the shot.

    I have no doubt you're a talented guy and you can blow me off the court on a backhand rally!! So, don't even think about football (soccer, calcio) and keep doing what you do best. That is crushing bullet-like 2-handed backhands!
     
  19. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    No, ShcMad, I knew full well - I was joking about you being Hantuchova! Good luck in your persuit. Btw, can I have an invite to the wedding?! Btw2, I think my bh will return following yesterday's disasterous display - just need to remember this: "CLOSE YOUR BLOODY STANCE!" (I can have terrible tendency to hit from open stance sometimes.)
     
  20. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Actually... hmmm... anyone got any tips to ensure I don't lapse into hitting open stance? This seems to be a persistant problem area. I'm thinking if there was one or two mental key phrases or physical actions or whatever that might get me into that correct side-on position...

    I mean what does everyone else do? (fearless1? star? ShcMad? Regulars?)...

    Here's some common one's I believe - all geared to getting you correct side-on position...

    . line up r hip to incoming ball
    . line up r foot and l shoulder to incoming ball
    . take l foot & step out and wide then step into ball with r foot on the hit

    WHAT WE SAYING PPL?! WHAT DO YOU ALL DO?!
     
  21. spadesss

    spadesss Semi-Pro

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    best medicine to keep the feet moving regardless and do the baby split steps.
    a lot of times the balls come in so fast that you may not have time or in posistion to do close stance so you are force to hit open.

    for me, i turned my right shoulder 1st (raised my racket in the ready position) and my r leg follows. by the time i am in my close stance, i am ready to whack the ball.
     
  22. fearless1

    fearless1 Rookie

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    You need to learn how to hit 2hb with BOTH closed and open stances. During return of serve (or any fast shot hit to you for that matter), you won't have time to close the stance. So, you end up hitting 2hb with open stance. Closed stance offers the advantages of better balance and weight distribution into the shot...when there is time to set up for it.

    How to make the correct stance a permanent part of your game? GROOVE it Baby, groove it...with lots of practice (remember this!?). I forgot to mention, you can also practice your strokes in the comfort of your home without a ball. When I was teaching myself the strokes years ago, I did LOTS of "shadow stroking" to help the learning process along. So, swing away without a ball and practice both open and closed stances. You can also use a mirror or large window to check your form and make corrections as needed. IMPORTANT, when doing your shadow swinging, you must visualize hitting through an imaginary ball to get the most out of these shadow drills.


    On a more technical note...a footwork tip...

    On shots that you have to move laterally, do NOT crab walk to the ball by starting your move (to your 2hb left) with the left foot. Instead, make the first step a crossover step with the right foot to your 2hb left. So, if the ball is just one step away, crossing over with the right foot will automatically close your stance! What if the ball is further than two steps away? In general, a lateral move that is one or more steps away should also start with a crossover step and you should attempt to land on the forward foot at the time you are at the ball's hitting zone. If the ball is more or less coming right at you and you have some time to maneauver, you still crossover, but step forward instead of laterally into the shot. Otherwise, crab laterally and hit with open stance. Make sense?
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2007
  23. tennisplayer

    tennisplayer Rookie

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    Ross K, what you really want to do is position yourself so that you get an unobstructed, circular swing that goes from the inside to the outside and wraps back after contact with the ball. I make sure that at the bottom of my backswing my hands are reaching downwards and backwards, and that the racquet is set up for a circular swing. This necessitates a shoulder turn as well.

    How you contact the ball is really the key, and once you get a feel for that, the body and feet kinda adjust... that is, you will know automatically how to position them. Took me a while though, to get that right... :)

    There are a lot of nuances, but you need to get the big part down before you can appreciate the rest.

    Wish you good luck and good hitting!
     
  24. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    fearless1,

    You know when you write those posts that very quickly you're wondering 'Why did I send that? I know the answer to this anyway'? Well, it was to my surprise last night that I came across your footwork tip... thank you very much indeed! Now this I've never heard. What can I say - I shall definitely be trying out this method.


    tennisplayer,

    I do take your point regarding the vital importance of how you contact the ball and how the rest will kind of naturally follow.


    Right. No more neurotic pleas for help for a while - promise! (Although when you do get these interesting tips, well, it is tempting to come back for more?... No... no more!)
     
  25. ShcMad

    ShcMad Hall of Fame

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    I'll definitely invite you to the wedding. ;)
    I know you don't want more tips, but this is not a tip. It's just one of my thoughts about the backhand! lol...

    Anyways, I, as you, feel more comfortable hitting the backhand from a closed stance. As someone mentioned earlier, hitting it from a closed stance gives you better balance, weight transfer, and power since your back will be facing the net while your lower body will be stepping into the shot. That amount of coil is key to generating power.

    However, we do not always have time to set up like that. So, we have to hit with an open stance once in a while. I do it mostly when I'm on the run or when there's a high-bouncing ball. But, I try not to hit from an open stance as much as possible because I find myself hitting from the back foot whenever I'm in an open stance backhand position. Sometimes, I realize I'm falling back while hitting it. So, I'd categorize it as a purely-defensive, last-resort kind of shot.

    As fearless said, I usually step-over with my opposite foot whenever I want to move to the left/right. And, I make sure to take the racquet back WHILE stepping into the shot. That way, I'm gaining a rhythm going into the shot, and I'm not being late.

    Ross, if you're interested I can post a small analysis of Safin's backhand that some guy did at the Tennisplayer.net boards. Let me know.
     
  26. fearless1

    fearless1 Rookie

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    If you watch JC's footwork in the video, you'll see him use all methods possible for closing his stance...crossover steps for slightly wider shots; for shots with little or no lateral movement is necessary, close by stepping foward with the front foot or stepping back with the back foot as well as use of the very simple and quick hop/turn. A hop turn is a quick hop with both feet leaving the ground from open stance and simply landing with both feet in the closed stance. JC also uses semi-closed stance which is something between open and closed.

    Just to clarify, crabbing (side stepping) is still important way to maneuver around the court too. Crabbing is you being in split step facing your opponent and making small vertical and horizontal adjustments to your position on the court, usually done shortly after you hit a shot. So, let's say you just hit a shot from the baseline but you are still just a little bit off center in terms of your court position. To get back closer to center, you crab back to center then split step while waiting for your opponent's return shot. Another example...you hit an approach shot then split step just inside the service line...you read your opponent and determine he may try for a down the line passing shot...you can crab about a half step towards the sideline just before your opponent hits his shot to give yourself a better play at the ball. You can also crab vertically (and diagonally) after you close your stance and now facing a sideline. Vertical crabbing allows for fine adjustments to incoming ball's trajectory in preparation to hitting your own shot. Watch JC in the video if you want to see examples of crabbing.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2007
  27. soyizgood

    soyizgood G.O.A.T.

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    I think one thing is clear: There are MANY ways to grip a 2HBH. Compared to only 3 types for 1HBH.

    I just don't like using continental for the right hand. For now I play eastern (right), semi-western (left). Conti(r)-semi(l) allows for safe shots, but hard for me to generate winners that way. Eastern-eastern hits probably the best for flat, long strokes. However, you get tempted to blast and it's not that easy to get topspin on it.

    I might try SW(r)-SW(l). I wonder what kind of topspin could be developed. HMMM
     
  28. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Morning all,

    Played yesterday against a friend who is relatively new to the game (although I must say he appears to be naturally pretty talented.) Taking my footwork tip from fearless, and also after doing some fairly extensive training involving playing with my left hand (and this actually includes 2 long sessions of table tennis), bh seemingly improved a lot. Next week I think I have a busy playing schedule and against some good opposition. Then I'll really know where I'm at on the bh.

    ShcMad,

    What I was doing wrong (or if not wrong per ce but too often), was taking an initial large step out and away with my left foot, before then crossing over with and on the angle with my right foot. Simply just crossing over immediately with the right foot makes total sense and really worked for me yesterday.
    I'd really like it if this thread could be a 'must check it out reference' as regards the 2hander, and therefore - absolutely! Safin's bh? An analysis? WE MUST HAVE IT HERE! (Links, photos, articles, etc - this is what we want!)

    fearless1,

    Cheers for top info on all the different side-stepping options... GREAT STUFF!... In time, I shall attempt all of what you describe.
    Shall also have to really scrutinize the JC vid. (I think I've told you before I own a very old vid of his so I can study that as well.)

    soyizgood,

    Although presently settled upon a cont right hand (after a lot of ex advice on this thread), I too have a certain attraction to the sw right hand (with diff left hand options). I confess I wouldn't mind learning more about this as well as further grip combo details. Star_of_death80 used to be a big contributor on this topic (and other stuff). Maybe he or others might care to share the sacred 'knowledge of the grips'!... btw, I totally take your point about eastern right hand can seem like it's better for power and flat blasters.
     
  29. star_of_death80

    star_of_death80 New User

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    Hello, havent posted for a while just havent had much to say and been busy, my team won the Tuesday comp in our club and aiming for the Sunday, standards lower on Sundays though.


    Here are the grip combos mainly used on the ATP and WTA, before I do that here is a quick reference on how to find the grips, there are 8 bevels on the racket, starting clockwise from 1 on the top(eastern backhand),2(continental),3 the big side bevel(eastern forehand), 4(semiwestern), 4.5(western) and so on.
    the numbers is referring where you place your index knuckles. the heel position on the left hand is not important compared to your right hand when hitting a forehand.

    continental /eastern(fh),(2,7): right hand index knuckle on bevel 2 and left hand index knuckle on bevel 7. swingline motion should be out to in or picture it as a figure or reverse c. swing fast and low when extending to ball. eg. Marat Safin, David Nalbandian, Martina Hingis

    eastern(bh)/eastern(fh),(1,7): right hand index knuckle on bevel 1 and left hand index knuckle on bevel 7. same swingline motion as continental/eastern(fh) but requires to extend earlier towards the ball and feel you are using your left hand a lot more compared to the above. Andre Agassi, Yevgeny Kafelnikov

    continental/semiwestern(fh),(1,6):right hand index knuckle on bevel 1 and left hand index knuckle on bevel 6. swing line is more in to out or more rotational.
    Maria Sharapova, Jelena Jankovic, virtually all the girls

    First two setups your hitting through the ball more or driving it as you would on an eastern forehand where as the last setup its more like what you would do with the semiwestern forehand not a linear motion and your arms would be boxed up like the girls. First two setups in general would give you a lower trajectory and great penetration whereas the last one would be more topspin, less penetration
     
  30. star_of_death80

    star_of_death80 New User

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    Made a mistake in that last post, a continental/semiwestern(fh) its supposed to be (2,6).
    Assuming the principals the same, with a continental/semiwestern(fh) your contact point will be hit out furhther in front and higher
     
  31. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Hi everyone,

    Out of interest, just wondered what everyone thinks of their own racquet as regards the 2hander.

    For me, a major factor before purchasing the plus-sized Bab (pd) were the recommendations about its suitability to 2hbh. I found this to be pretty accurate (as well as all the talk of it being good for serves and groundstrokes, especially wherte topspin is concerned.) Have to say though that when I was experimenting with lead tape (and not too much either), the bh was UNBELIEVABLE... AN ABSOLUTE ROCKET... unfortunately it didn't gel with the rest of my game and I stripped most of off. Anyway, I'd still say my racquet is a very good choice for a 2her - plenty of power and reach and sweet spot. Not that there isn't a trade off as for other aspects of my play. I think manouverability and lack of weight are indeed issues... major issues perhaps.

    Anyway, it might be nice if a few ppl could describe their own racquet and its suitability to the 2her.
     
  32. star_of_death80

    star_of_death80 New User

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    I use a Liquidmedal Prestige Midplus, currently strung at around 56 lbs with ProZone strings, gives nice power and topspin. In general when I get my restrung especially with these pro zone strings, I had a hard time hitting my two hander in terms of control and getting over the net as I think I have a very flat low trajectory on the two hander although in the last week especially yesterday I was able to hit my two hander with the same power a few weeks ago, just now have to get my cross court shot working again as people consider it to be a deadly shot everytime and yesterday I was hitting great dtl regularly for the first time. In general I feel the Liquidmedal Prestige MP is great in terms of groundstrokes and serve, nice control and good if you require extra timing when hitting a bit late. It feels great hitting the backhand of this racket although some people have complained about the Heads handel being too rectangular for their liking.
     
  33. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Interesting stuff star. I confess I'm not knowledgable in the least as regards your racquet. Sounds like you're happy enough with it though.... Oh, and btw, thanks for your great post a day or two back about grips... brilliant detail.
     
  34. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    your racquet - good for 2her?

    Anyone else?
     
  35. tennisplayer

    tennisplayer Rookie

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    When you have two hands on a racquet, you inherently have a lot of stability - I would say more so than the (one-handed) forehand. To tell you the truth, I have found almost all racquets I have hit with to be okay for my 2HBH, but I prefer to use a PC MP Plus because I think the extra length gives me a little edge... and I freely admit I can't prove this!
     
  36. fearless1

    fearless1 Rookie

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    Although there are many racquets that have lengthened grips for 2hbhs, there really is no such thing as a 2hbh specific racquet. One ideally chooses a racquet based on prefered balance of power, accuracy, control, stability, etc, that brings out the best in their game overall, and the 2hbh is then really no different than any of your other strokes.

    B PD is a fun racquet to hit with, and perhaps a good starting point...easier to wave around and lots of power too although somewhat challenged in the control/accuracy department. I would recommend as you get better and stronger that you either increase the wt of the racquet or better yet, switch to something heavier and more head light balanced too. The idea is eventually switch to a racquet that allows pin point placement for your shots with the player and not the racquet providing much of the power behind the shot.

    I use the Wilson nCode and K-Factor 90 racquets for my ability to hit very accurate shots for all type of strokes while I provide much of the power myself though my strokes. You should find as you get better, CONSISTENT accuracy wins lots of matches with less effort too.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2007
  37. topspin_17

    topspin_17 Rookie

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    rotate your shoulder after you have finished hitting the ball, because you lose control from a lot of shoulder movement.
     
  38. spadesss

    spadesss Semi-Pro

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    I am using the Wilson Ncode Surge, mid plus at 100 sq in.
    I am extremely happy with my 2hbh.
    I never own but have used smaller head size rackets. Personally, I can still hit a great 2hbh regardless of the head size or racket specfication.
    For instances, I borrowed my friend's Pete Sampras racket and had no problem with 2hbackhand, but forehand was a huge problem. The heavy racket and requirement of a full stroke was getting to me. So I guessed my short backswing and compact swing can go with any racket for my 2bhb. But I can't say the same for the rest of my game such as forehand and serve.
     
  39. soyizgood

    soyizgood G.O.A.T.

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    I used a semi(r)-eastern(l) combo briefly last year. I had some on and off moments with it. I could moonball shots and hit relatively flat. When it came to brushing, I didn't have much on it for the ball to kick back after the bounce.

    The eastern(r)-semi(l) combo is full of power. Sometimes a bit too much. I rarely hit into the net with it. I can definitely get spin. Comes down with a good hard bounce. Gets good depth even when hitting off my back foot. I just need to control the power.
     
  40. star_of_death80

    star_of_death80 New User

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    with a two handed backhand same thing like a forehand, if your using eastern forehand in the left hand you tend to hit more square or closed like the guys out there however if its semi-western in the left hand you'll be hitting more with an open stance like the girls and able to hit balls of the back foot better or easier I think.
     
  41. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    ever return big serve with 1hander?

    Question time again...

    Any of you ever return serve (and this was a big one) with a 1hander?... I thought the 2hander was geared up for that?...

    Played 2 games last week against a much better level player than myself (it was a real learning experience actually - his 1st serve was like nothing I'm used to, and had a complete blistering rocket of a topspin fh which was ALWAYS in.) Anyhow, almost without thinking, I found myself returning serve (especially his huge 1st serve) with a 1hander... uh-oh!!!

    What does this mean?!... Is this some terrible sign that really I should be reverting to the 1hander of old and ditching the 2hander?... Is it simply an old habit re-emerging when I'm really stretched to my limits and it's nothing to worry about regarding ditching the 2hander?... Or... DO YOU 2HANDERS (OR THE PRO'S) SOMETIMES RETURN SERVE - ESPECIALLY AGAINST ROCKET 1st SERVES - WITH A 1HANDER?...IS THIS CONSIDERED OKAY?...

    Any feedback gratefully accepted!

    Btw, it sure is a different game playing against a lot more advanced players eh?... What can I say?... hmmm... very humbling... like, do I have some improving to do, or what?!
     
  42. bluestreak711

    bluestreak711 Rookie

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    well i drive with a 2handed BH and only slice with a 1 handed BH

    ofcourse it is ok you have to do what you have to do

    my arm isnt strong enough to stretch for and return with a 1H BH

    i don't like to but i have to resort to another forehand on that side

    but i seldom players that good though

    and like i said ofcourse it is ok

    to slice a BH properly you have to use a 1H BH

    to make it simple here is an easy thing to keep in mind for us 2H BHers

    if you have two hands on the racquet drive it if you have one hand slice it

    that is just keeping it simple for myself

    but if you can do more

    more power to ya


    hope i helped take care
     
  43. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    how much 1her stuff is it good to use with your 2her?

    Posted this on diff thread yesterday to no response. Wondered if anyone here has a view?




    Originally Posted by thursdayisgod

    I go 1h for slice (of course, the ball is low and 2hs are not the best to hit low balls with, also allows for faster headspeed with 1h for greater rpm.) Also with approach shots (often these are sliced but potentitally flat, requires less set-up and follow-through to transition to net easier, it is not an all out 1hbh but rather a half-volley style.) Defensive shots (if I have to reach to get a racquet on it, certainly it is impossible to get 2hands on it)



    Originally posted by Ross K

    When players mix up the bh like this ^, when you start to think about it, it makes you wonder if 'two-hander' is the wrong term. Maybe this style merits some new title? How about 'one and two-hander'!? Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with this...

    I know many ppl incorporate lots of one-handed bh into their play (and with far more succesful results than when I do it.) No, it's just that for me... (AND THIS REALLY FOLLOWS TWO RECENT MATCHES AGAINST A SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER LEVEL PLAYER)... such a mixture... such a lot of options impacts poorly on my bh game; as in when you're facing very challenging opposition, you're really being stretched, time is just non-existent (if you know what I mean), and basically, you're playing at a far more instinctive level than usual, options and choices can = time consuming and confusing. Which is why I think some of us need to limit the 1her.

    Of course, I'm only approx a 4.0 level player (although possibly not on bh side) and doubtless a lot of you 'one and two-handers' would handle better players far more authoritively than myself (comparatively speaking.) Plus also - and this is important - I should also say that I switched from 1h to 2h slightly less than a year ago and this obviously has an effect on my abilities. But for me though, as I say, it's a case of keeping the mixing it up at a minimum.

    Btw, the only querie really I'd like to make regards pro's and how much they incorporate 1h strokes. I mean, I could be totally completely wrong but when I think of the likes of A-Rod or Agassi, I don't think of them as using as much of the 1her stuff as thursdayisgod suggests above^... maybe I've got it wrong though?
     
  44. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Hey everyone,

    How's it working 2her-wise these days? For me, despite some of my above comments, I've actually really been mixing it up and getting a lot of 1her slice stuff in (as well as top spin too), and basically, taking on board ppl's comments about learning all the relevant 1her shots - when to use them, etc and trying to implement that. Have to say, generally, my bh game now feels more assured.

    So how about others?
     
  45. bluestreak711

    bluestreak711 Rookie

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    i am pretty good on that wing and i had a strange but good encounter witha BH shot

    keep in mind i am left handed


    i was running to a ball that dropped just inside the service line on the duece side and i was a long ways from it

    and i almost got there and as a normal reaction to reach the ball.... i leaned over like a water fountain and dropped the ball back on the other service line and i kept the ball low as well

    i was standing on my left foot and my right leg and upper body was horizontal

    i was so far back my opponent didnt think i had a chance of getting to the ball and now that i think about it i don't blame him

    i ran up got as close as i could,made like a water fountain,stretched my arm out,hit the ball and dropped it low,and quickly got back into ready position and ready to hit the next shot

    i have really good balance

    and that amazed me,that was like a roger Federer shot lol
     
  46. Forza Milan

    Forza Milan New User

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  47. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    straight down & back technique?

    In the last few sessions I've had I've been playing around with a different style. Instead of the usual slight loop takeback around shoulder height (when time permits) with a relatively lateral and wide, straight-armed swing, I've been doing this: the straight back and pointing down past hip to ground, then just driving up sort of vertically straight-armed into ball. If I'm not mistaken (and I might be) the first is more Agassi, Nalbandian and Roddick, whilst the second is more Williams sisters, Hewitt and Baghdatis (???)

    Anyway, although it feels very different and I have 'balance issues', I'm finding it's been pretty succesful (specially cross-court.) I'm getting good topspin, depth and power - consistantly - plus I'm very rarely finding the net (or indeed framing it the ball... ahem...)

    So I was just wondering if ppl had a bit more info on this style...

    Is THIS what I've heard referred to as 'pendulum' style?...

    What grips go with this?...

    I find I'm lining up and hitting the ball lower (nearer a little above front foot), I'm bending the legs more, and the way I'm striking the ball is even a little like a cricket stroke (ie, crudely put: it's racket down & back, then forward & up - not the lateral baseball swing...) Is this correct form?

    Any replies greatly appreciated!
     
  48. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Further to my description of this type of shot - if it helps ppl to picture it - I've realised (aha! of course!) it looks a bit like a hockey stroke!... Tonight I have a game and I'll really see where I'm at with it.
     
  49. fearless1

    fearless1 Rookie

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    I know the following may be difficult to grasp...but it's very important that you do if you want to get better at tennis faster...

    Looks like you have gone down the "style" path to strokes. This really isn't good and you want to get off that path ASAP. Just to clarify, there is a subtle difference between stroke style versus stroke mechanics. They look the same, there may even be some overlap, but they really aren't the same from a mindset point of view.

    Stroke mechanics is...use fast and precise footwork, take the racquet back, keep eyes on the ball, hit through the ball, follow through the ball, etc etc.

    Stroke style is...let me try a looping style swing with high take back; perhaps with straight arms fully locked; or perhaps now I'll try a straight back style swing with horizontal swing, etc.

    Strokes are a means to an end, not the end in itself. The player's objective ideally is to hit the ball to where the opponent isn't and NOT be concerned with what you look like doing it. In a nutshell, you MUST focus on proper stroke MECHANICS and let your own style manifest itself on its own. What you are doing is the reverse of this. You are trying to mold a swing STYLE as an "overlay" to stroke mechanics...which in turn has the huge potential to cause all sorts of headaches with the consistency and accuracy of your shots. Much of the problem has to do with psychology. The more one concentrates on swing style, the less one is concentrating on hitting the shot he/she wants to hit.

    So, I'd like to recommend the following stroke mechanics...

    Take your racquet STRAIGHT back as soon as you know what side of your body the ball is going to. Adjust your backswing below expected ball's height for topsin; at the ball's height for flat; above the ball's height for slice.

    Select an aimpoint that is no less than 3 feet above the net chord (do NOT use a spot on the court as an aimpoint).

    Maneuver on the court to put your hitting zone at the top of the ball's bounce or closer to the bounce to hit it on the rise.

    Keep your eyes on the ball then hit through it while retaining your aimpoint.

    Do over and over again.

    Other than backswing height, do NOT think about stroke mechanics from a style point of view! Your goal is to focus on playing the game the right way as opposed to focusing (too much) on stroke style.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2007
  50. Myng

    Myng New User

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    I've switched from onehander to 2hander and I must say it is great.
    I've been hitting some nice solid backhands and with practice it can only get better.
     

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