calling it deep before bounce

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by bharat, May 18, 2010.

  1. bharat

    bharat Rookie

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    So, i played with this guy last week on our league.
    He was calling "Nope" or Deep or Out before the ball landed on the court. It was fine in practice but he kept doing that in the match.

    Most of the calls were good but I was just a bit annoyed. Wondering if that happens a lot because I a,m pretty sure after he called it out the ball landed in a few times since I hit with top spin.
     
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  2. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

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    I used to play doubles with someone like this... if the ball landed in I would correct the call and give the point to my opponents. But no this does not happen very often, at least in my experience.
     
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  3. jmjmkim

    jmjmkim Semi-Pro

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    I hate guys like that..... it is real annoying. A lot of times, the ball does spin and drop in, how can they deny you of such shots.

    Anything close to the line, I usually play it. A lot of times, while watching pro matches, I could have sworn that the ball was out. But if the Hawkeye calls anything that touches the line, IN, then I gotta give my opponent the benefit of the doubt, and assume it is in if it is anywhere near the line.

    Besides, it's not like we are playing for money. If it is for fun and exercise, the more strokes we exchange, the better.
     
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  4. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    I don't mind if it really turns out to be out, but if it lands in one time and he called it out, I would be annoyed from then on if he still did that.

    Some balls you can tell if they will land out or not if the person is hitting flat ball or if it floats. I make my out calls after they land out, unless I'm playing doubles. I tend to call "no" or "out" to my partner so they don't try to hit it in the air. I know I should say bounce, but I instincitively call out or no.lol

    Don't know if that pisses the other team off, but they have never said anything. If I'm wrong and it lands in, then we change the call.
     
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  5. athiker

    athiker Hall of Fame

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    Hasn't been common that I've seen. I have seen a simultaneous call be reversed and admit I've had to do so myself when topspin changes the angle and brings the ball in at the last moment. Rare, but I've seen it.

    I might occasionally hold a finger up indicating out on a ball that is flying obviously long as I run towards it, can't say for sure if I haven't been a touch early before the actual bounce once in a while on one of those...I'm talking way out here. I would not do that on anything remotely close until after I saw the bounce.

    I did play a guy that had his hand signals pretty much reversed! Thumbs up for in and a wave off to the side if it was out. He also tended to not verbally or hand signal baseline balls but just assume I saw it. Usually I did, but sometimes the net tape is in the way. He didn't make bad calls that I could tell, he just didn't let me know the call so I would have to ask. That's when I would get the "thumbs up!" for in or the hand brush/wave and "no" shake of the head if out.
     
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  6. Sherlock

    Sherlock Rookie

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    Ask him on a changeover to hold out calls until after he/she clearly sees the ball hit and hit long.
     
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  7. HitItHarder

    HitItHarder Semi-Pro

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    It seems to happen a lot with the guys I play against in our local USTA league. Several matches this year where the opponents were calling my shots out long before the bounce.

    And according to several people I talked to after two of the matches, quite a few of those close out calls were incorrect and the ball dipped in thanks to the topspin I use. Of course, those calls weren't corrected. But that is just part of the game.

    I just don't know what is so hard about waiting for the bounce. I realize it is easier to take a point on an out call rather than actually hit a return stroke - but as was mentioned above, this isn't life or death. I come to the courts to hit the ball. If it is close, I'm hitting it.
     
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  8. athiker

    athiker Hall of Fame

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    I picked up that bad habit for a while..saying "no" to my partner instead of "bounce it". It was a surprisingly hard habit to break but if said loud enough and the ball ends up being in and your partner plays it back, or if your partner ignores it and plays the ball back, the opponent could possibly call a hindrance and claim the point. They would say they stopped playing on your "no/out" call. It has never been an issue in a match, but I try to only say "bounce". Similarly in singles I try not to say something like "Oh no!" if I hit a shot I think is going out. Its not really fair to the other player if it ends up landing in. I admit I've done it though.
     
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  9. penpal

    penpal Rookie

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    Happens a pretty fair amount here as well. I consider this a minor annoyance and don't really let it bother me, but I've seen others who get very worked up about it - to the point of allowing their game to fall to pieces.

    Oddly, now that this has been mentioned, I realize that I haven't noticed this behavior as much at the 4.0 level as I did when I was playing 3.5. Not sure if it's actually occurring less frequently, or if it doesn't draw my attention as much as it used to.
     
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  10. penpal

    penpal Rookie

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    This is one I struggle with as well. I certainly don't intend for my outburst to be a distraction, but wouldn't blame my opponent one bit if they were to take the point when I make an exclamation on the what turns out to be mistaken belief that my shot is going out.
     
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  11. pmacino

    pmacino Semi-Pro

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    It depends on the type of strokes being called. I think serves are easier to call earlier on. If I'm playing doubles and at the service line and a ball is whizzing by "waist high" on me, it's obviously not going in...I'm not going to wait for it to hit near the baseline. I'll call it.

    If it's not on the serve, I'll generally hold calls, but be careful to clearly and physically call an out.

    Point being, there are exceptions and it's more based on the overall pattern. If the balls have a lot of top and there is a chance that they will be in, I'd hold the call... if the are consistenly close like you are stating I'm much more critical and would also be annoyed. The way I read the original post it was a "blanket question", where the answer had more to it than a "blanket answer".
     
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  12. bharat

    bharat Rookie

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    I guess it was effecting my game a little bit. About half way, I called one his shots out. It looked out to me and I was the closer to the ball. To my surprise he corrected me saying it was good. I said "okay thats fine", now that I think abt it, I could have asked for a let since I would have hit it if I tht it was good.

    But that incident kind of threw me off and I lost a match I shd have won. I'm still learning and I agree its my fault to think too much of it.
     
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  13. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, I was thinking about that when I made a call like that. What if it lands in and they stop playing and my partner hits a winner off the ball. They could call "hindrance" since a out/no call was make prematurally. I'm starting to use "bounce" more.

    On some 2nd serves where I'm really disappointed in them I will say "ughhhh". I don't know if they are a distraction to my opponnet.lol
     
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  14. bsandy

    bsandy Hall of Fame

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    A couple things . . .

    1. You're actually allowed to yell "out" to tell your partner not to swing at it. According to the USTA we're supposed to know the difference. If you yell "out" to your partner and it goes in, it's still in play and he can hit it back.

    But if it's a line call . . .

    2. If you're nice about asking someone not to call it early, they probably won't. If you get all whiny about it they might keep doing it. If they continue to do it, tell them that this is their last warning and you're going to call a distraction, the next time. Yes. Until the ball hits, out the distraction rule is in effect.

    . . . Bud
     
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  15. athiker

    athiker Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, its hard not to sometimes. I've never had anyone make an issue of it when it happens. I think reading these boards and some of the bad stories, almost none of which I've experienced, has made me paranoid about everything! :)
     
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  16. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

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    I usually do the same thing except that I say "leave it" or as you said "bounce it" but I am hoping my partner will still play it after the bounce just in case. If it was a volley then we will confirm and or correct the call after it lands.
     
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  17. armsty

    armsty Hall of Fame

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    This really ticks me off. If you had a guy that called before it bounced, foot faulted every serve and tossed the ball up a few times before he served... it wouldn't be my fault if I walked over the other side of the net and broke something that, lets say wasn't mine.
     
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  18. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    That's why it's good to say "bounce it", so they know that you're just suggesting to your partner that we see where it lands, but we're not calling it out prematurely. Often there's not time to even say "bounce it", I usually just say "bounce". If it lands in, ok, I was wrong, and then my partner should try to return it, but probably 20 go out for every one that lands in, so we're much better off not trying to hit them out of the air.
     
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  19. dcdoorknob

    dcdoorknob Hall of Fame

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    When someone is calling balls out before they bounce (not counting ones that are headed to the fence), I'll usually speak up right after they did it on a ball that ended up being fairly close and asking them to please wait for the ball to bounce before calling it. Usually this works pretty well as long as you are cordial and non-confrontational about things. Most normal adults realize that it's a fair request.
     
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  20. MayDay

    MayDay Semi-Pro

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    Great tips. I used to yell "out" to my partner, and he knows that it means to let it bounce. The communication is normally made while the ball is on up or parallel trajectory and way before it bounces. No complaints from opponents as they tend to do the same.
     
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  21. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

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    ^Ok, that makes sense then. I usually call the ball "out" to my partner way before it hits the ground.

    I guess I haven't been doing it wrong, but I think I will still start saying "bounce" because it gives me more time to call the ball for my partner without any chance of "hinderance".
     
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  22. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I'm not following you, Bud.

    If someone calls the ball early and it is out, the point is over.

    If someone calls the ball early and it is in, then I think this should be treated as a player who changes their out call to in. In that case, you would play a let if they returned it well, and it would be your point if they didn't.

    Am I missing something?
     
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  23. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    I thought if you called "out" and it was in, you lose the point automatically. I think you can call bounce. But I'm not sure, if someone has a rule book and can give a definitive answer it would be greatly appreciated.

    Personally, I hate it when my partner yells "out" for me. I feel he isn't giving me credit for having eyes and a brain of my own--and too many times, I've had partners make bad judgement calls, repeatedly!

    I think it's better to let the hitter, hit, rather than screaming in their ear. Many times it's too late for the hitter to retract their swing and it just disrupts them resulting in an error anyway. In recreational play, I may play a close out ball just for "the hit of it".

    It reminds me of an incident I had playing recreational doubles with a hard-ass partner against a very weak team. I returned some close out balls and my partner went ape-****, admonishing me that if I hit another out ball he would walk off the court. It had been a fun match up to then. I complied with his demand but won't play with him again. I do wave at him as he walks his dog by the courts. I don't see him playing much anymore, but his mutt's in good shape.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2010
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  24. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    I don't say something, (BTW, I say "bounce", not "out"), because I think there's something wrong with my partner. It's just that sometimes I have a better angle. It's frustrating to see your opponents shot going long, and you think, "We won that point." and then, all of a sudden, your partner's racquet appears, and it prevents the out ball from going out, and your partner snatches defeat from the jaws of victory. I've played tennis a long time, I KNOW an out ball when I see it. No good can come from interfering with a ball that is on its way over the baseline.

    I never threaten to walk off the court, I don't get any kind of attitude towards my partner over it. But when all we have to do is nothing to win the point, then I'll say "bounce" so we don't give away a point that we earned.
     
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  25. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Sounds reasonable Steady Eddy. You have a good eye. I've had "experienced" partners yell "bounce" and been wrong. If I let it bounce, I don't have a play on it and have to watch it bounce IN. I give 'em one chance and if they call it wrong, I don't listen to them after that and make my own judgment calls.

    The "experienced" player I spoke of is an alright guy, in his 70's and been playing all his life. Everytime we play dubs together he invariably calls numerous balls out that land in. I've learned not to pay attention to him anymore but it takes some effort not to allow his exclamations to throw off the rhythm of my swing. He's "playing not to lose" rather than to win. I see a lot of players miss a baseline return because they are so anxious to call it out that they focus on the line, wishing the ball out and they screw up their swing.
     
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  26. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    In my world, "Bounce it" is always purely advisory. If you disagree, take the shot. If you know you would never have a play on the ball if you bounced, go ahead and play it if you want.

    I have one partner who makes this explicit. She says "Watch it." I like it.

    In fact, I get a little irked when partners don't say "Bounce it." We're supposed to be a team here, yet the person best positioned to see the trajectory of the ball while I'm busy getting to it stays silent?

    Well, if my partner won't say "Bounce it," they had better not come up to me afterward and chirp, "That was going out." Not unless they want to get strangled.
     
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  27. This is kind of stupid if you ask me. If the ball is going out, it's usually pretty easy to tell. I can tell if my shot is going to be just barely out (like say an inch or so) right when I hit the ball. It's all feel (and partially trajectory/spin). I can also see if a ball struck is going out. Heck, I can usually see on TV right when a player hits the ball if it's going in, long, or even into the net (though that one can be tricky because of the generally high angles). Some people have a good eye for that kind of thing.

    If the ball is out, it's out. It doesn't matter if he "calls it" early IMO. I've called my own balls out for people before it even gets to them. If he calls it and it drops in, he should concede the point. It's what I would do. Though I don't think I've ever missed that sort of call. :p

    Seems to me like you're more just annoyed that you're hitting balls out. Think about it. Just play the game to the best of your ability, all the time, and let the chips fall where they may.
     
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  28. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

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    It's not right to call "out" before the ball hits the court, it can mess up your partner as well as your opponent. If you don't want your partner to hit the ball, yell "let it!" or "watch it" or even "no!" but not "out". Officially, the ball isn't out til it hits somewhere outside the lines. I would ask this person to stop doing it.
     
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  29. bsandy

    bsandy Hall of Fame

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    From the USTA:

    Despite what some people think, there is no rule that says you cannot say 'out' or other words of communication to your partner, especially when you are at the net and the ball is coming in your direction or the ball has not come close to landing on the court. And because such communication would invariably occur long before the ball has bounced, the claim that this could be mistaken for a line call is not really valid if everyone is paying attention. (Communicating by screaming or yelling is not permitted at any time and could be deemed a hindrance no matter when it occurs.) The only time confusion can occur is in the case when a player says 'out' or another form of communication to his/her partner standing at the line at the time when the ball bounces. One player is in the position to make a return of the ball and does so. In that case, saying "leave it" or "NO" would be preferable to saying 'out'. However, any word used when the ball lands on the ground or close to the ground when your partner hits the ball could be construed as a call. If a player yells "out” at the moment or close to the moment their partner played the ball, it could hinder the opponents. This is assuming that the players stopped play. If the players who may have been confused by the communication or call continue to play the point, they may not then claim the point due to hindrance after the entire point has been completed. If a player believes that they are truly hindered, they MUST stop.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
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  30. jswinf

    jswinf Professional

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    What if your partner is hearing impaired?

    More seriously, there are times I've said "out" to a doubles partner when I think a ball is definitely going out. I don't consider it a call, just a helpful suggestion to my partner that they better not volley the damn thing. If they let it bounce and it's in, I expect them to play it. I agree suggesting "bounce it" or "I say, old chap, I do believe there's a possibility that the breeze might push that one beyond the sideline" is preferable, but sometimes "out" is what my brain provides me.
     
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  31. RoddickAce

    RoddickAce Hall of Fame

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    I usually don't mind it if it's blatantly obvious that it's going out (like 5-10+ feet out). But then again, if it's so blatantly obvious, then there's no need to even call it out lolz.
     
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