Calling us a Lila!

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by jc4.0, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

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    Our team lost a great player when our buddy Lila decided to move to Melbourne, FL. So when she sometimes drives down to Hollywood for the weekend, we love to see her. However...

    We're playing doubles last week, and I line up to hit a weak sitter. Just as I smack it for a clean winner, my partner yells out "Lila!" (Lila had appeared behind the fence, to watch our match for a while; nobody else had even noticed her.) My ball ripped down the middle past both opponents, and trust me they had no play on it. But because my partner had said "Lila" as I was hitting it, we agreed to play two.

    Here's my question - I don't mind playing two in a friendly game, but if this was a league match, wouldn't my team have been able to claim the point? In the Code it says even if a let is called by your opponents (i.e., a ball rolls onto the court on your side), that if you've hit a clean winner then the team or person who hit the winner retains the point. Let me be clear - my partner called "Lila" while the ball was still on our side, just as I ripped the ball past our opponents.
     
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  2. DE19702

    DE19702 Rookie

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    I would think your opponents could have asked for the point because your partner created a distraction. As far as they knew your partner could have been calling a let because a ball had come on the court or for some other reason. The problem is that both of you have legitimate points but your partner created an issue that should have never occurred. I would have played a let in either case.
     
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  3. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    And trust me, I've seen players return balls that did not seem humanly possible to return, but they did.

    In a tournament this would not happen because no tournament player would be so dumb as to call out a "friend's" name during a point, or if they did, that would probably be their first and last tournament--they wouldn't have the mentality to be playing competitive tournaments.

    This is NO way analogous to calling a let when a ball from an adjoining court interferes with play on yours.

    That's why I hate club/rec play. Most of the time there's very little tennis going on, just a series of social distractions for the purpose of "seeing and being seen".
     
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  4. DE19702

    DE19702 Rookie

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    If a ball was rolling behind the receiving team and the smashing teammate yelled something that even remotely sounded like a Let -- and Lila and Let both start with the letter "L" -- or even held their hand up to waive to Lila, then this would fit the scenario would it not?
     
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  5. dcdoorknob

    dcdoorknob Hall of Fame

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    I would think that if the 'let' occurred before you even hit the ball then it wouldn't matter if you proceeded to hit a winner or not, especially since it would be hard to prove that it for sure would have been a winner when the opponents can argue that they never even started to move for the ball because of when the let occurred.
     
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  6. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    OK, I don't want to start any trouble here, but this is just too much.

    OP, you've had a series of posts with a common theme: "My partner or I created a problem/confusion during a point. How can we avoid the consequences for our actions and claim the point?"

    Good heavens. Your team is supposed to be quiet and not shout stuff out that sounds like "Out" or "Let." If you do shout out and it bothers or confuses your opponents, you should be a good sport and suck it up and award them the point or play a let.

    You are not supposed to go through all sorts of contortions to make an argument to win a point that you didn't earn fair and square because *you* introduced confusion into the situation.

    You know, I have been playing 8.0 mixed lately, which is the highest level I've ever played. I have been amazed and pleased with how generous the players are at that level. They offer two serves when there has been a slight interruption. They call lines generously. They compliment each other on good shots. What they do not do is lawyer up in an attempt to waltz off with a point that was not clearly theirs.

    So. That is my rant. I think you should have played a let and it should not have even occurred to you to try to take the point under those circumstances, even on match point at the league championships.
     
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  7. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    Once again your opponents are completely within their rights to claim hindrance and take the point yet you are looking for justification to take the point yourself. Your team caused the problem- how on earth could you feel screwed by a let?
     
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  8. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Well said Cindy!
     
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  9. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

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    --and once again you completely missed the point of my post; maybe you didn't even read it. We DID replay the point with no comment, because this was a friendly match. My question, which so far nobody has answered - is in a LEAGUE match, when code rules apply, if a let or a distracting sound occurs on my side of the court but one of us hits a clean winner anyway, do we replay the point?

    Rules state that if a let occurs on my side of the net, even if called by someone, but I hit an obvious winner, then it's my point. My question is, does that same rule apply to a distracting sound?

    Maybe there isn't a rule. some of you people are extremely rude, it's not necessary. I'm just discussing a technical point here.
     
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  10. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Oh, I read it. I couldn't believe my eyes, though.

    In a friendly match, you should concede the point or replay the point.

    In a league match, you should concede the point or replay the point.

    The fact that the match is a league match does not allow you to shout out and distract your opponents and then cook up some argument to try to claim the point. So that, IMHO, is the answer to your question.

    Here is the rule regarding lets for a ball rolling onto a court:

    Here is the Code provision regarding hindrance:

    Is there another rule to which you are referring?

    I see nothing about your getting to claim the point if their shot was a weak sitter. If the ball is in play and you hinder your opponent or shout out in a distracting way, then you cannot blast a winner and then try to claim the point in any kind of match -- friendly or league.

    I'm sorry if I am coming across as rude; I tried to be as gentle as I could given the provocation. I don't want to give you that impression, as you sound like a very nice person. It's the attitude that I've seen ("Hey, how can I cause a problem and then claim the point anyway?") that is rather jarring to me.
     
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  11. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

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    I don't think the rule you quoted is iron clad in this case. I can make noise while the ball is on my side of the court, which is what occurred here (apparently you didn't understand that point). Also there is another part of the code that states that if a clear winner is hit, regardless of a ball rolling on my side while I'm hitting (not on my opponent's side) then the point stands and there is no replay.

    People sometimes massage the rules to their favor, but that's not what happened here. As I stated originally, we replayed the point. That fact slipped past you as well.

    your inference that I'm "trying to create distractions" just to win a point is what I am referring to as rude. I am simply asking for opinions - about tennis rules. Thanks for your quotes but to me - question is still open.
     
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  12. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Please quote this rule or code provision. I am unfamiliar with it.

    Yes, you can make noise while the ball is on your side. Common sense suggests you cannot make noise that sounds like you are making a call or calling a let. Really, do you think you can line up your shot and scream "Not Yet!" or "I'll Bet!" And then when your opponents stop playing and say you distracted them because they thought you were calling a let, you will try to claim the point?

    I do not believe I said you are "trying to create distractions" to win points.

    I am definitely saying that you are trying to claim points you won because of distractions you created. That is not cool.
     
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  13. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

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    for the last time - I didn't claim the point!!!!!!!!!!!
    I agreed to a replay. How many times do I have to re-state this?
    This is supposed to be friendly post, where we can discuss rules. you're making it far too personal. You've quoted the rule you think is appropriate, so go find something else to do.
    CHILL OUT GIRL
     
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  14. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    You are hilarious. Take your own advice.

    How about, instead of vehemently arguing with everyone who disagrees with you, you put some effort into finding this "rule" about claiming points even when a let is called that you've mentioned several times but have so far failed to quote?
     
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  15. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

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    here you go

    From The code:
    35. Lets due to hindrance. A let is not automatically granted because of
    hindrance. A let is authorized only if the player could have made the shot had
    the player not been hindered. A let is also not authorized for a hindrance
    caused by something within a player’s control.

    On TTC today - the "court rules" segment specifically stated that if you hit a clean winner, even if a ball rolls onto your side of the court while you are hitting this winner and is called a "let" then it's your point.

    Go argue with Jon Lovitz.
     
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  16. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, you have said this several times.

    But the entire point of this thread was your asking all of us if you would be entitled to claim the point if it were a league match instead of a social match. I know this because in your first post, you wrote: "if this was a league match, wouldn't my team have been able to claim the point? " My answer to you is no, you can't/shouldn't claim it in a league match and you can't/shouldn't claim it in a friendly match.

    Regarding the Code provision you quoted, I do not read it the way you do. If your hat falls off during a point, I could call a hindrance for that (although you could not), but only if I was in a position to make the shot when I saw your hat on the ground.

    In the situation you describe where your/your partner are the ones causing the disturbance that causes your opponents to stop playing, you cannot slam a winner and then say they couldn't reach it because they stopped playing. I would see that argument as circular. It seems to me that if the hindrance is the very reason your shot was a winner, you are on thin ice to try to claim the point. I would consider that unsporting.

    Can't you see the unfairness of this?
     
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  17. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    You can't make "noise" this would be a distraction and gamesmanship. You can say "yours, mine, switch and bounce". "Leila" is not one of those words, and may sound like your saying "let".

    In your opinion you hit a clean winner. Your opponents disagreed with that. In an umpired singles tournament match an official may decide a shot was a clean winner. In doubles what is a "clean winner" may be more difficult to determine. You have two people and they can cover a lot of the court. Sometimes they may "guess" and charge for the middle. If they heard "Lila" and stopped playing it may have changed there strategy as to where they were going.

    To answer your question once again, this would not happen in a tournament match because a tournament player would NOT socialize during a point--or the entire match for that matter. They would not say hi to friends, or talk to their opponents. Any talking they would do would be to their partner only to strategize. You can have on court coaching now in the women's game.

    The whole supposition of the scenario is one that would never occur in a "real" tennis match.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2010
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  18. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

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    Tough room!!!

    You have stated your opinion and I appreciate it. I would probably do the same as I did in this situation, in a league match but I have had some confusion about what the rules actually say about this situation; hence my post. I was hoping to simply get some opinions without people sniping at me (like you). tough room!!!!

    For the record - I don't think it's such a black and white matter as you do, but I would always give my opponents benefit of the doubt.
     
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  19. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

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    sensible

    this is the most sensible response yet. Thanks, you are entirely correct.
     
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  20. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    I believe that rule only applies if everyone agrees that the player could not have made the shot given the hindrance. If the other team feels they could have made the shot then you play a let.
     
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  21. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

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    I agree - and of course the opp team is regardless going to say they "could have made a play" so it's probably a moot point - just replay it right?

    I know in this case they couldn't have touched the ball but so what, I'd rather just move on with my life!!! We're not professionals. At least, I'm not one.
     
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  22. decades

    decades Guest

    I would play three.
     
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  23. dlk

    dlk Hall of Fame

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    After the dust has cleared.....I thought the title of this thread was a winner:)
     
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  24. jswinf

    jswinf Professional

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    I wanted to toss in something related to The Kinks "Lola" but the muse let me down.
     
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