Can Federer beat Sampras record for weeks at number 1?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by timnz, Nov 18, 2009.

  1. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Currently (as at November 16th), Federer is 4th in the list for the most weeks at number 1 (behind Sampras, Lendl & Connors).

    What do people think? Do you think he has enough gas in the tank to get past Pete's Record of 286 weeks?

    Refer to (which has the detail):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ATP_number_1_ranked_players
     
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  2. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    I think he can.
     
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  3. OliverSimon

    OliverSimon Hall of Fame

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    He's going to beat all of Pete's records
     
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  4. RCizzle65

    RCizzle65 Hall of Fame

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    I know it's probably not a serious comment, but I doubt he can beat six consecutive number one years in a row after Nadal stopped it last year...
    Also, Federer would have to keep his ranking until around Wimbledon to pass Pete's record, not out of the question, but it'll be tough defending some of those points.
     
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  5. Michael Bluth

    Michael Bluth Semi-Pro

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    Maybe, but Nadal has way more points to defend before the French.
     
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  6. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    True, he'll never break 6 years ending number one. But he has ended number one 6 years in a row at a different point in the year, or at least I think someone else has said such.
     
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  7. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    well yeah, if the week after wimbledon was that point, he's been the number 1 for the last 6 years. but that's not "YEAR END" persay, just a time in the year he's been no. 1.

    never say never about 6 consecutive no1 finishes, you don't know for sure. though it's obviously very highly unlikely.
     
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  8. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    If Federer holds the number one spot through the end of February (very likely), he'll be number two on the list. Then he has to hold it till a week or two after the French Open and he's broken the record. That, of course, will be much tougher.
     
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  9. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    6 years finishing at number 1 doesnt mean much. Consecutive weeks is important but look at serena. This is her 2nd time finishing #1 and she is considered a goat.

    Sampras also played the thailand open to keep the streak, when he was playing with the top10 he finished #2.
     
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  10. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    Yes, he was #1 for 6 years straight the week after Wimbledon. The point is, there is no off-season in tennis, so year-end-number one is a meaningless or merely symbolic distinction vs. number 1 at any other point of the year.
     
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  11. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Well yes but I think in short pieces. Like Nadal,Federer and Djokovich might switch from 1-3 over the next two years. I don't think there is going to be a dominant number one. I hope that is the case, since it would be more interesting year if Federer fight to be number one. Also yes Federer will pass Smapras weeks at number 1 by staying where he is or in short bursts.
     
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  12. CHOcobo

    CHOcobo Professional

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    i'd say if he wins the up coming tournament in London, he has a very good chance, because his performance seems to be declining.
     
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  13. darthpwner

    darthpwner Banned

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    impossible. he can't beat pete's youngest ever us open champion record.
     
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  14. roysid

    roysid Professional

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    He should do it. A good first half of 2010 is all he needs.
     
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  15. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

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    Federer will have all of Sampras' records except the consecutive YE #1. Let Pete have his bone.
     
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  16. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    He could do it, but he'll probably need to do it consecutively. That means he should make the final of TMC. After that, it shouldn't really be a problem until Madrid.
     
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  17. kOaMaster

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    hard to say. because federer mainly got his points from 6 events. the four grand slams, madrid an cincinnati.
    to hold the n1-spot he would have to replace the ~4500 points until after the french open.
    (he won ~5'400 in this years period until the french open)

    I don't think we can settle it before the french open is over. also hard to say who the toughest n2 is. nadal? (the most points to defend) djokovic? (was pretty good last year but screwed up the GS, can he do better?

    murray...nah, don't think so. del potro too early.
     
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  18. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Federer needs to hold on till Wimbledon. I think therefore his biggest threat is probably Djokovic, because he got most of his points AFTER Wimbledon. Also maybe Del Potro, but I see Djokovic getting more points at TMC.

    Either way, Federer has not much to defend other than the Australian Open until Madrid. That should be doable. He usually does well in Slams, so If he doesn't lose his ranking here at the Masters Cup, I don't see him losing it before Madrid. Could anyone tell me at how many weeks that would put him?
     
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  19. According my calculations the week before Madrid would put him at 284 weeks :shock:
     
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  20. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    It looks highly unlikely especially since Nadal is already close to Roger and will have a big advantage at RG and Wimbledon.And of course there are other guys too.
    Who knows...
    Anyhow I like the conseutive weeks record better :wink:
     
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  21. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    So he needs to have no. 1 ranking directly after the French, but before Halle?
     
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  22. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    Why are Fed fans all so greedy? Like someone said, let Pete have his bone. Fed already has the consective weeks at No.1 record which is far more impressive than consective years at No.1.
     
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  23. I would think so...not to sure though
     
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  24. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

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    I for one hope he does it, but he doesnt have to do it in one go, Sampras held the number ranking on around 12 separate occassions, Federer has only held it twice, and probably would have a streak of around 290 weeks if not for Nadal have a superb 2008 and Federer having a bout of mono.

    That's as maybe, but breaking the record for most total weeks as number 1 and only need to stints at number 1 to do it is an amazing feet.
     
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  25. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Yup, but if Federer loses it once more, I really don't see him getting it back for a significant period again tbh. If he loses it, he'll stop going for it I am afraid.
     
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  26. I agree, it would be very hard since he will not be imo as consistent as Murray and Djokovic in the MS-tourneys, Nadal im not afraid of at all, he has already peaked.
     
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  27. boojay

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    It's more a question of 'when' he'll beat Sampras record and 'if' he can take down Graf.
     
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  28. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    How many weeks did Graf have?
     
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  29. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    Federer wont beat Graf's record for most weeks at #1 and even if he did it would be not as impressive as Graf by far had tougher competition.
     
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  30. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    If I was into tennis when Sampras was playing, I'd be rooting for him to break all of the records (and win the FO), as well.

    Some people just like to see the process of greatness.

    But Federer won't break Sampras' record for 6 years ending #1 (although he has been #1 after Wimbledon for 6 consecutive years before).
     
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  31. Michael Bluth

    Michael Bluth Semi-Pro

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    Maybe he would have if he had Chang, Rios and Rafter as his main competition for the second half of his dominant period.
     
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  32. As you would know, Grafs succes has a bitter taste of-blood.:???:
     
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  33. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    Yes indeed, she scared the blood out of every single one of her opponents, something Federer doesnt do to Nadal or Murray, or even Djokovic.
     
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  34. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    WRONG!

    Men's tennis are much, much more difficult accomplish. Women's tennis is easier to dominate. Notice every single records/streaks in men's tennis pale in comparison to women. If Roger ever matched Graf's total weeks at #1, it is by far way more impressive.

    In fact, Roger's 15 GS is just as(if not) more difficult feat than Graf's 22 GS.
     
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  35. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    I don't think Federer will let Sampras hold any record. That means Fed will break the weels at #1 record and Wimbledon titles won (Fed will match this record, not break it, IMO).
     
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  36. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    It is far more difficult. No disrespect to Graf, but comparing men's tennis to women's tennis is a joke.
     
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  37. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    The field from 1998-2006 was the worst period for mens tennis ever. And yes I know Sampras won 4 of his slams during this time, but Federer won 9 of his and had alot of his dominance and time at #1 from 2004-2006. Lets look at some things that happened during 2004-2006:

    -in 2004 a French Open that produced Henman in the semis, and a Coria-Gaudio final with Gaudio as Champion

    -in 2006 James Blake as the year end World #4 (hahaha) a player who would never reach a single slam semifinal in his life, nor win a single Masters title.

    -From 2005 onwards Davydenko becoming a regular top 3 player, and ending 2006 #3 in the World. This being a guy who many years later still hasnt reached a single slam final.

    -Ivan Ljubicic reaching #3 in the World in 2006

    The reason Graf is the undisputed female GOAT and Federer is not the mens GOAT is she backed down from nobody, which Federer certainly cant say. Navratilova, Seles, Sanchez Vicario, Evert, Hingis, Davenport, you name it, Graf beat them repeatedly on all surfaces. Even those very rare periods she was ranked below them she did not fear any of them at any point, if anything she struck fears in them. She did not get scared of main rivals or develop a mental block vs them, or all that silly stuff for a so called GOAT you associate with Federer when it comes to Nadal, Murray, even Djokovic. You can harp on pre stabbing Seles all you want but in Monica's best year ever she barely beat Graf on her own best surface (10-8 in the 3rd) and got humiliated on Graf's. During her own dominance in 91-early 93 she lost to Graf on every surface, and their 2 matches on a medium to fast court which favored Graf was bullied around both times. Contrast that to Federer who has always had massive trouble beating Nadal on grass, was losing to him regularly on hard courts as a teenager, and is part of a farcial non rivalry with him on Nadal's turf- clay. Graf dominated on all surfaces unlike Federer.
     
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  38. AAAA

    AAAA Hall of Fame

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    So which almighty challenger to Graf had a winning h2h, was physically at least an equal if not more so? Martina Navratilova doesn't count because she was past her best during Graf's golden years.
     
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  39. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Roger doesn't necessary need to break the SW19 record, but winning 7 is good enough. If he win in 2010, Roger will hold the upperhand:

    1. 5 conecutive SW19 titles
    2. 8 consecutive final
    3. Record for most consecutive win on grass
     
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  40. AAAA

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    Nice contradiction here.

     
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  41. I was referring to the Hamburg incident- the tragedy.
    I even liked Graf
     
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  42. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    Martina was a late bloomer who won 16 of her 18 slams past her 25th birthday. The idea she was mysteriously way past her prime in the late 80s in her early 30s is laughable, and a concept invented by Navratilova fanatics since Graf had the power and athletic ability to kick her off her throne, something as great as Evert did she didnt once Martina reached her long delayed prime. Especialy as Graf herself was not an early bloomer to the extent of Seles or Hingis, yet still was beating Navratilova at age 16 and taking over as #1 ranked at barely 18.

    Graf has a winning or tied head to head with all of Navratilova, Evert, Seles, Sanchez Vicario, Davenport, Serena, Venus, Capriati, Hingis, Sabatini, Novotna, Pierce, or anyone else of semi note. The only ones she is tied with are Navratilova and Serena, and she was just as far past her prime when she played Serena as Serena was, and played more matches outside her prime vs Navratilova than vice versa (nearly all of Martina's wins were before Graf's prime in fact). There is no player who owns Graf like Nadal and Murray do Federer, and like Djokovic is starting to almost.
     
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  43. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    That is not a contradiction. Djokovic and Murray are no different than say Sabatini and Novotna achievements wise. The only difference is Graf completely dominated them the way a true GOAT should 1 or 2 slam calibre opponents, while Federer struggles massively with them. Sabatini and Novotna, 1 or 2 slam calibre type players, were scared to even walk on court with the great Graf most times. If anything Federer is scared of playing Murray and Djokovic, 1 or 2 slam calibre type players, and breathes a sigh of relief when they are away from him in the draw or eliminated.
     
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  44. grafselesfan: Steffi was an extremely great champion- but never compare her to Federer.
    Its a different ballgame.
     
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  45. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    LOL and you probably even think Federer's competition on grass is at all comparable to Sampras's.

    Sampras competition on grass- Becker, Agassi, Ivanisevic, Krajicek, Henman, Rafter, Philippoussis, Stich, Martin.

    Federer competition on grass- Nadal, Roddick, Hewitt, the end.

    All the guys today are hard court specialists, to a lesser degree clay courters. There are hardly any quality grass courters today at all, it is an empty field on that surface.
     
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  46. Jchurch

    Jchurch Guest

    Yawnnn. You are better than sleeping pills =)

    Isn't grass a more homogenized surface now? Making it easier for ANYONE to come out and play well?
     
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  47. Because all the surfaces has been slowed down- everyone is better on hardcourt these days! Hell even the Spaniards and Argentinians can play well on HC!
     
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  48. Exactly !
    10 char
     
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  49. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    It's very easy to accuse Federer of not beating his main competition because of H2Hs, despite Federer being way past his prime. Let's go one by one:

    Djokovic: This one is easy, Federer owns him, 9-5 H2H, 4-1 at slams, you really have no case in Djokovic.

    Murray: Murray got most of his wins by beating a past-prime Federer. Even so, Federer still leads the slam H2H 1-0 (2-1 if you consider Cincy a slam, like some Nadal fans do). Federer is 3-6 against Murray, but he clearly won the more important matches. Until Murray beats Fed at a slam, Fed will be considered the supoerior player in their H2H.

    Nadal: I consider Fed's prime until TMC 2007. By then, the H2H was 8-6 to Nadal, but Federer was leading the H2H in 2/3 surfaces. There is a reason why Nadal stayed #2 despite beating Federer more than losing to him. The reason was Nadal was not good enough to reach HC slam finals or some HC MS finals, while Fed reached just about every clay event final, and always gave Nadal a competitive fight. Federer never had the chance to even the H2H, depite actually leading it on grass and HC. When 2008 began, you had to be blind not to see Fed isn't the same player as before. Moved more slowly, made more errors, and Nadal took full atvantage of that. In fact, not only Nadal did, but also Stepanek, Roddick, Blake, Fish, Karlovic, guys who Federer usually owns. The fact Federer still reaches slam finals despite his current game amazes me.

    Fact is, Nadal couldn't gain the #1 ranking up until Federer was a shadow of his former self, and even then he couldn't keep it. Federer also has a far better record against the field than Nadal does.

    These days, I'm not surprised when Fed's playing badly or losing, because he just isn't the old Federer anymore. You get flashes of him here and there, but overall he's just not as good as before. If Murray, Djokovic are so much better than the likes of Hewitt, Davydenko, Roddick, Haas they wouldn't lose to all of them in a year like 2009, when this guys are in the later stage of their careers.

    Also, I agree Pete had the tougher grass era, but Fed had a tougher HC era, so it evens out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2009
    #49
  50. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    @grafselesfan

    You are comparing apple to orange. Not only Graf, but Court, Martina, or Chris had all the ridiculous tennis records that where no single legendary players from ATP ever came close. On average, it's easier to win in the WTA and setting records. Life in the WTA is easier b/c in men's tennis it's more physically demanding, playing 5 setters instead of 3. Their limitation is due to more stressful, more wear and tear.

    Chris Evert made 33 GS final. How many male player ever came that close? Even a longevity player like Connors, or very fit Lendl, Federer numbers look silly.
     
    #50

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