Can Nadal afford another straight loss to Djokovic in a Slam final?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Mike Sams, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    If they meet in the Australian Open final next month, could another loss to Djokovic have significant repercussions on Nadal's mindset for the duration of 2012?
    3 straight finals...3 straight losses...all to the same player. I know Nadal is being positive and even diplomatic and will often tell the media "I lose today but I will keep trying, I can lose 100 times but I will keep on trying to win..."

    He knows it's what his fans want to hear but how much could he possibly stomach to the point where his passion for the game takes a real hit? Is the breaking point closer than we think emotionally for Nadal?
     
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  2. Zildite

    Zildite Hall of Fame

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    edit 10 char nothing to see here
     
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  3. gregor.b

    gregor.b Professional

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    LOL. That is the 7th match in.What will Djoko do if he has to retire from another match before he even gets to the final. Just askin' that's all.
     
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  4. MotherMarjorie

    MotherMarjorie Banned

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    Uh, after seeing Nadal's frustration in the Wimbledon finals, its pretty obvious that the psychological torture was cemented.

    Nadal is beyond frustrated. For the first time in Nadal's career, a player stepped forward that totally dominated him physically. Nadal really doesn't know what to do with that, because he's never faced it before.

    Now we will see what type of champion Nadal really is....

    Mother Marjorie Ann
    Empress of Talk Tennis Warehouse
     
    #4
  5. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Nadal will never beat Djokovic in a slam again.
     
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  6. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I've said it before, while Nadal sits on his clay throne, he will be a huge force in tennis. All the players have something to prove in 2012, not just Nadal. Djokovic ended 2011 poorly with a 6-4 record after the US Open. He will need to stop that rot quickly at the start of 2012.
     
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  7. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal will look at his trophy cabient and think "Djokovic has a lot more proving to do than I do".
     
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  8. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    The emphasis that tennis fans and commentators place on mental strength is far greater than its effect in reality. I don't believe for a second that "because Nadal lost x straight finals to Djokovic he can never beat him again". By that logic, Djokovic wouldn't have been able to beat Nadal in a final/clay final/major final for the same reasons, and many morons made that argument back during the early run of Novak's winning streak.

    There are numerous ways it can happen: Nadal changes strategies, Nadal improves, Djokovic changes strategies (to conserve his health) at some cost to his immediate success, Djokovic declines, Nadal has a random great day, Djokovic has a random bad day.
     
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  9. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

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    Nadal can afford 10 more losses in a row to Djokovic. And you can afford never to be a pro tennis player (and never to be a tennis commentator/expert)...
     
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  10. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    He seems pretty enthsuastic now after the DC. So I'd say he can.

    Yeah, this.
     
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  11. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    Nadal wont be in final, if he makes it to SF he goes out either to Federer or Murray
     
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  12. vernonbc

    vernonbc Hall of Fame

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    Maybe Murray, but Federer hasn't beaten Nadal in a slam since 2007 plus he lost 3 out of 4 matches to him this year. Fedfans are in their usual lala land.
     
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  13. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    63 60

    Nadal is walking on injections to his knees, pain killers or infiltrates. As recent as Davis matches. He has won nothing, NOTHING, since French.
    YOU are in lala land buddy.
     
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  14. atac

    atac Rookie

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    ROFL! Same old stuff... and I assume he was never really injured at Wimbledon this year?
     
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  15. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    Really, or fakely, nobody knows. That's Nadal after all.
    Now that's old stuff.
     
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  16. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    What are you talking about?, you just mentioned the DC in that same line...
     
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  17. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    heh, dont you read Nadal news thread?

    toonnns of information there, you gotta keep up buddy :D
     
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  18. GOAT BAAH!!!

    GOAT BAAH!!! Professional

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    Nadal can afford to lose to Djoker a few more times but the fact that he has never won Basel is what truly hurts his legacy.
     
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  19. ViscaB

    ViscaB Hall of Fame

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    Who cares if he loses again, there's always a next slam.
     
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  20. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    If Nadal loses again his passion for the game goes poof, and then he can afford to lose anything.

    But there is one guy who cannot afford one more loss, and that's uncle Toni.
     
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  21. TopFH

    TopFH Hall of Fame

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    ^There might be Djokovic waiting for him.
     
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  22. Subventricular Zone

    Subventricular Zone Rookie

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    Federer lost 3 straight Grand Slam Finals against Nadal (and hasn't won against him in a GS final since 2007):

    RG 2008, where he got dismantled
    Wimby 2008, a 5-set heartbreaking loss
    AO 2009, where he unraveled in the 5th and freaking cried during the trophy ceremony

    ...and then went on to win 3 more majors and break the major haul record.

    So yes, Nadal can still come back and win majors even if he loses to Djokovic since Djokovic will not be in any single GS final until he ends his career. Or he might be able to beat him again, who knows?

    Frankly, it's useless to count out guys like Fed and Rafa since they almost always come back every time they've been declared dead or ready for retirement.
     
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  23. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    My question was a bit different. I said what if Nadal lost to Djokovic in 3 back to back to back Grand Slam Finals?
    Federer's case was different. He lost to Nadal at Roland Garros as he was expected to and then lost to Nadal at Wimbledon but then Federer won the USO so therefore he basically saved his season. And then he lost to Nadal at the AO. So it wasn't really 3 consecutive Slam finals he lost.
    I was asking if Nadal was to lose to Djokovic provided they both meet at the AO final next month, that would be literally 3 consecutive Slam meetings back to back to back.
     
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  24. gregor.b

    gregor.b Professional

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    Seems to me the more you lose to some one the more you want to beat them,not so much get scared by them. Maybe you are different and do get scared by some one you struggle to beat, but this is what the pro's live for. To challenge themselves and prove the doubters wrong. All of them. I am reasonably sure your thoughts will not enter their heads or cause them any sleepless nights. I understand this is a forum and you are entitled to your opinions, but do you think these guys got to where they are by conceding defeat before the first ball is struck in anger?
     
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  25. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal may want to defeat Djokovic but what has he done with his game to show he actually can defeat Djokovic in a slam final lately? To me it looks like he has made zero changes to his game and on top of that he is dealing with the mental part of Djokovic beating him in 6 finals in a row. Unless Nadal comes up with a better game plan or Djokovic's form really takes a dive, I don't like Nadal's chances. Nadal has even stated himself that there is not much he can do and he needs to wait until Djokovic's form falls. Does that sound to you like a guy who is confident he can beat Djokovic?
     
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  26. 1970CRBase

    1970CRBase Guest

    If I were trying to see it from Nad's point of view, he may know he can't change his game to fight Djok, first of all, there will be a trade off. Forcing yourself to change one thing will be at the cost of something else - that got him where he is. So he might not even get to play Djok in the final, where he will already lose in the current trend. He might not even get to play Muz. Secondly, he may also know that he cannot play the kind of game which can beat Djok, ie, Fed's game. If he does change, his immediate risk could be much bigger than his potential gain. He may do even worse against Djok than he already has. In this match up as it currently stands, what we saw this year, culminating in USO F, was that no matter how Nad rearranges the stack of cards in his current possession, his hand cannot beat Djok's hand, but his hand doesn't do worse than last year, as far as making finals is concerned. So if I were him, I would stick with what I already have, knowing I have already maximised the efficiency of my stack against as many opponents as I can and bet on either Djok's form falling off sufficiently to overcome him or somebody else, preferably Roger :), beating him in the other SF, so that it will be Fed in the final against me and the old Roger is back, no? He is the best player in the world, no? It will be impossible to beat him, no? :)
     
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  27. passive_aggressive

    passive_aggressive Banned

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    You insane?

    Nadal routines Murray everytime they meet, especially in a slam, especially recently in slams.

    Murray is no threat, he's a guaranteed walkover for Nadal.
     
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  28. 1970CRBase

    1970CRBase Guest

    What I saw in that USO F was Nad coming out super aggressive, trying everything, trying to overwhelm Djok with pure fury alone, on every point he was almost expending twice as much energy as usual, Djok just rolled with it and got the upper hand as usual. Then in the 3rd set I saw Nad just going super saiyan and playing so hard he finally tore a set from Djok by the slimmest of margins - but the price of that over extension was a walk over fourth set, one of the few times I saw Nad really done for.

    Not stubborness, I honestly think Nad knows his best bet is to stick with what he already has and see if he can, as someone else said, get Djok on a worse day and himself on a better day.
     
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  29. passive_aggressive

    passive_aggressive Banned

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    Well, as we've already seen from the year-end 2011, Djokovic's best days are already behind him.

    I still think Djokovic even when playing at 50% can roll into the AO 2012 final, but then again Nadal playing at 50% will also roll into the AO 2012 final.

    I think Nadal will beat Djokovic easily there and win his 11th slam.
     
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  30. 1970CRBase

    1970CRBase Guest

    IF that is indeed the case there is even less reason for Nad to risk any change to his game as others suggest.
     
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  31. Homeboy Hotel

    Homeboy Hotel Hall of Fame

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    Here's a situation,

    Djokovic vs [Someone]
    Nadal vs [Someone]

    That is the order of play for the slam semifinal, Djokovic is already through to the final. Nadal's match is next, 3 hours past by and he's two sets down - do you think in Nadal's mind it's worth fighting more?
     
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  32. gregor.b

    gregor.b Professional

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    From what I see personally on TV, Nadals biggest issue is depth on his F/H. As far as tennis goes,that is usually a tension related issue. If he can fix that (ie learn to relax), his chances will be much better against all of the other top 3. Maybe he needs to flatten out his B/H but his issue is F/H depth, in a nutshell.
     
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  33. Homeboy Hotel

    Homeboy Hotel Hall of Fame

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    Does this guy never stop talking out his @ss, when is this troll getting banned?
     
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  34. gregor.b

    gregor.b Professional

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    Dude be it right wrong or indifferent he is entitled to his opinion. Just curious how Nole at 100% couldn't beat Fed on clay and now at 50% he'll walk into the final. Hmmmmm. Also Rafa. We shall see.
     
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  35. Homeboy Hotel

    Homeboy Hotel Hall of Fame

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    Of course, I am the first person to stress the right for opinions on forums, but if you just keep a tab on this guys trash talking it's unbelievable...

    From the poster himself,
    "I reckon all the slams should be held in USA."

    "The other slam semi's is always a Nadal/Ferrer match with Ferrer bending for Nadal every time.

    Murray never makes it past the 3rd Round of a Grand Slam again."

    "Relative to the women's game [Wozniaki] has weapons and movement Murray couldn't even dream of."

    "At best, Nadal will win all 25 of those finals, and will end his career with 35 slams."

    Please, gregor.b, tell me how I can take this (previously banned) sunshine seriously?
     
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  36. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Agree. That is really the issue.

    There's some video on YouTube from around 2007 where Rafa and Toni are recording some kind of basic tennis class, and when they're talking about the FH Toni mentions how Rafa's problem with it is depth.

    Other than that, Rafa can beat Novak with his game. He's done it many times already, and was very close to doing it early in the year. Their other matches haven't been walkovers for Novak either.

    Well, there are people here who troll way worse than that...
     
    #36
  37. Fate Archer

    Fate Archer Hall of Fame

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    Agreed... like Rocky would say in that famous quote:

    "But ain't about how hard you hit... It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward... how much you can take, and keep moving forward."

    We will see how far Nadal will get when it's him the one who gets beat and there is nothing he can do.

    It's a great part of being a real champion taking a beating and moving on from that, many times even learning in the process.

    If Nadal goes down from now on, I guess the so called warrior image that has so often been portraied by him will be nothing more than a blunder by his overexcited fans.
     
    #37
  38. All-rounder

    All-rounder Legend

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    When did Nadal say this?
     
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  39. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

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    apparently my pandit has seen rafa's "JANAMPATRI"(horoscope) and has told me that his stars are in wrong places.His mars and juipiter have lost their way and heading towards neptune.shani is very angry on him and hence all the losses he has suffered due to djokovic..pandit has given me "UPAY"(remedy)..
    1st he needs to enchant " HUNUMAAN CHALISA" on a daily basis and feed cows and black dogs..
     
    #39
  40. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Well, he's said something akin to that, I'm quite sure, in one or two press conferences after matches. He hasn't said there's nothing he can do, but he has said that a player never stays in the same form forever, can't really remember his exact words. Fed said similar things about Rafa too, and Rafa also about becoming nÂș 1 around 2008.
     
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  41. gregor.b

    gregor.b Professional

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    Well,to you,your pandit and Sharni,rock on baby(or whatever it is you guys do together).
     
    #41
  42. gregor.b

    gregor.b Professional

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    Mate,I wouldn't worry too much. I will wager that on some of the sites he visits,his name isChampion, he is 6'6 and weighs 220 without an ounce of fat. According to some of those sites, he may even know how to hold a racket,because,as we have seen with some of his posts on TT, it would appear that this is not necessarily the case.
    Cheers,
    Greg.
     
    #42
  43. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    What he cannot afford is another bagel. Djoker was the biggest bagel cooker of 2011 and somehow he was too nice to cook one for Rafa. Murray was no such sport, neither was Rodge.
     
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  44. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Hilarious food names for tennis scores (nonexistent in Spanish) apart, Rafa did lose 61 twice to Novak, and 60 once to Murray and once to Fed... not good. :?
     
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  45. Subventricular Zone

    Subventricular Zone Rookie

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    Dude, my answer will still be the same.

    That is still 3 straight Grand Slam Finals losses against his main opponent in a space of 8 months.

    In fact, Fed had the benefit of actually winning a Grand Slam before his third straight Grand Slam match-up against Rafa after having lost the last two. He had significantly more rest, had a surface advantage against his opponent, was aiming for history when he was supposed to tie Sampras' 14 slams and had the "legends" actually cheering for him-----and he still could not get it done.

    His three straight Grand Slam finals losses against Rafa though did not mean the end of him as he broke the record for Grand Slam major count and completed the Career Grand Slam in the same year.

    Like I said, Djokovic will not be in all GS Finals against Rafa and neither will Nadal against Fed until the end of their careers.
     
    #45
  46. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    Probably not, but Nadal is trying hard to prepare his mind with excuses so he can bear with the upcoming slaughter better.
     
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  47. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    Nadal can afford anything because he can afford to come up with any excuses.
    When there is no shame there is no limit.
     
    #47
  48. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near G.O.A.T.

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    Relax folks, ...
    Ah I see, so the fix is on!
     
    #48
  49. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near G.O.A.T.

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    Relax folks, ...
    You know times are bad when Nadal can't afford a bagel.
     
    #49
  50. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    What else do you see, Nath?

    we would like your inputs in this and every other serious issues, including shamelessness, namelessness, taking time off 2 months in advance and playing..... 3 ......tournaments inbetweeeeeeen!!!!!!!!!
     
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