Can Nadal beat Djokerer back to back at the Australian Open?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Mike Sams, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,267
    #1 Djokovic and #2 Nadal will be on opposite sides of the draw as we know. Then there's the question of where Federer will be placed. 98% of the time he's on Djokovic's side. But if Federer this year is placed on Nadal's side, specifically at the Australian Open, does Nadal still have the game and the fierce warrior spirit to take down Federer in the semifinals followed by Djokovic in the final? Or is that too much to ask even for a warrior like Nadal?
     
    #1
  2. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,829
    Location:
    Lyon, France.
    Hmmm, can he get past Ferrer first?
     
    #2
  3. InspectorRacquet

    InspectorRacquet Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    427
    If Federer is on Nadal's side, there's no chance he has the mental strength (and physical strength) to beat Federer and Djokovic in a row. I'd say his chances would be higher if it was a clay surface.
     
    #3
  4. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,464
    Well if 2012 is like most of 2011, he won't be able to beat Djokovic in the final.... doesn't matter if his semi final opponent is Federer or me
     
    #4
  5. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,267
    But is Nadal at the stage now in his career where he would slightly panic upon looking at the draw and seeing that he would basically have to play Federer and Djokovic back to back in order to win the tournament?
    Is Nadal still welcoming of the challenge or is he a little more uncertain and intimidated by the possibility of knowing that nothing less than his absolute very best will be enough to go through his two biggest and most dangerous rivals? Simply, would Nadal be a little shaken at the thought of playing these two guys if he is to win another hardcourt Slam?
     
    #5
  6. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,261
    Location:
    Chile
    I'm not sure it'd make a difference, playing them back to back. If he can play with confidence and consistency, he can do it.
     
    #6
  7. Xizel

    Xizel Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,404
    Ah, the memories of the 5-set Verdasco epic followed by a 5-set win against Fed.
     
    #7
  8. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,464
    Yeah I'm sure he would prefer not to have to play both. If Federer plays well Nadal is not going to have an easy match so that could make a tough task almost impossible. However Murray could actually take out Djokovic. Strangely I had a dream that Murray beat Federer in the final, hope that doesn't occur.

    It does make it harder, but at the moment it boils down to whether he can beat Djokovic. On a hardcourt if Djokovic play his best, Nadal has almost no chance to win, just like if Nadal plays his best on clay it doesn't really matter how well Federer plays, there's only one winner. So it's kind of out of Nadal's hands. But if he does have to come through a 5 setter with Federer, then maybe Djokovic doesn't even need to play his best, so he's want to avoid having these matches back to back I would think. Anyone would want to avoid playing Djokovic/Nadal/Federer back to back in any combination.
     
    #8
  9. AM95

    AM95 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,245
    if fed ends up in rafa's half..that would be very interesting. i doubt rafa will be able to get past both of them.
     
    #9
  10. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    28,966
    Location:
    Tuning Up The Band...
    He could, he's done it before. It depends on the form of all 3 players.
     
    #10
  11. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    7,202
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    HAHAHAHA LOOOOOL
     
    #11
  12. decades

    decades Guest

    loved the post. hated the title.
     
    #12
  13. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,811
    Nadal has no chance of beating djoker in the final no matter how well he plays.
     
    #13
  14. bluescreen

    bluescreen Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,636
    Ah, you beat me to it.

    I don't think it's at all unreasonable for Nadal to win by beating Djoker and Fed in a row. The way they're all playing it seems as if the eventual winner will pretty much HAVE to beat two of the top 3 players in the world to win AO.
     
    #14
  15. Semi-Pro

    Semi-Pro Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,199
    Location:
    Toronto
    On hard court? No chance.
     
    #15
  16. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    12,855
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    Oh how I hope it does! :)
     
    #16
  17. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    5,304
    He's beaten both Fed and Djok at a hard court slam before? Nadal will be gassed if he takes out Fed who won't go away quietly and then he'll have to face t a Djokovic who will probably dismantle yet another out-of-sorts Murray in the semi.

    Unless he's amazingly lucky or gets through Federer quickly (then again, NONE of Nadal's matches are ever done quickly), his chances against Djok are already pretty abysmal, expecially on plexicushion.
     
    #17
  18. Tony48

    Tony48 Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    6,879
    When was the last time Federer beat Nadal in a slam?

    Of course Nadal can beat him. But Djokovic in the final? Ummmmm....right now, there's a low probability of that happening.

    EDIT: I just realized the thread title says Djokerer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
    #18
  19. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,267
    Nadal's matches against Federer also are very mentally taxing. He's consistently put under enormous amounts of pressure and has to find ways to continuously fight off break points against Federer. As we know, Federer is the best in history at creating break point chances but one of the worst at actually converting break points. :lol:
    Remember Federer's BP percentage against Nadal at Roland Garros 2007? 1/17 in Break Points!:shock:
    Wimbledon 2008...1/12 in Break Points! :lol:
    Awful! Just very very bad!
    Point is, nobody denies Nadal's chances of getting through Federer at a Slam. But it's mentally and physically exhausting. Federer would likely take all the juice out of him.
     
    #19
  20. cbegap

    cbegap Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    107
    Nadal needs to get his confidence back. When he is aggressive, he will finish across his body on the follow through. Right now everything is finishing buggy whip. Watching the London matches and am only up to Nadal/Tsonga. Through the first set and a half he has only hit 2 aggressive shots finishing across his body. Everything else just sits up and doesn't move through the court. He's playing not to loose, not to win.
     
    #20
  21. aprilfool

    aprilfool Guest

    Fixed it for you. You don't get GOAT records by being the worst converter of break point chances. But yes, against Nadal, the bad match-up and excessive momentum-killing time-wasting by Nadal messes Federer up...
     
    #21
  22. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,902
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    If Fed ends up in Rafa's half, he wins the tournament.

    I think he wins it either way, but Nadal's half of the draw is certainly more favorable for Fed, unless Djokovic is still injured.

    Australian Open is early this year, starts Jan. 16.
     
    #22
  23. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,261
    Location:
    Chile
    It's probably better for Fed to be on Djokovic's side of the draw. He matches up better against him, after all.

    Of course, Rafa playing to win those points has nothing to do with it, right?.
     
    #23
  24. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    29,158
    Location:
    Brave New World
    Not quite.
    After the DC win (I hope no one screams "spoiler"), he'll come back as Nadal 2.0 (just like Nole last year).
    Nadal will now win the CYGS and destroy everyone in his path in straight sets. He won't drop a set all year, till maybe WTF when he'll tire.

    Then he'll win DC again.
     
    #24
  25. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    7,741
    No spoilers please.
     
    #25
  26. stringertom

    stringertom G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    12,186
    Location:
    In a sureshsian vortex
    I think we're ignoring possible QF matchups and their effects on the top 3. Whoever draws Tsonga in their quarter will have a plateful to overcome. At this moment, he is every bit as dangerous on HC as any of the players ranked above him.
     
    #26
  27. aphex

    aphex Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    6,263
    Location:
    athens, greece
    Ralph will be lucky if Djoker allows him to keep Monte Carlo.
    Regarding the thread title, I take it that it was made in jest.
     
    #27
  28. TennisFan3

    TennisFan3 Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    5,426
    Are you trolling OP or is this a trick question? Did you pay attention in 2011?
     
    #28
  29. Fate Archer

    Fate Archer Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,667
    I generally agree with this. If he can avoid Tsonga or a dangerous floater in the quarters I really like his chances at having the AO next year.
     
    #29
  30. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,334
    But no year is the same as the next year. Everyone (except for Murray) plays different every year. Look at 2010 compared to 2011... Look at 2008 compared to 2009.... Look at 2009 compared to 2010.... And now Djokovic has gone and ruined his body (or is it mind?) with no off-season to save him. No way is Djokovic going to be the same player. Meanwhile Nadal looked more impressive in the Del Potro match than any match this year.
     
    #30
  31. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,215
    Location:
    Puerto y Galgo....
    can he? yes!
    will he? no idea... maybe!
    should he? hell no. he should be bageled time and again for being the worst character on court the tour has seen since Lendl or Nastase and them bageled some more for having those despicable fist pumps and pelvic thrusts for mild points midway first set!
     
    #31
  32. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,639
    Past results are no guarantee for the future, to believe otherwise would be silly.
     
    #32
  33. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,811
    Ok I'm going to spoil it for all of you. Introducing....Djoker 3.0 :twisted: You will die.
     
    #33
  34. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,267
    Nadal looked good when he disposed of Tsonga and Gasquet on Davis Cup clay and then got bagelled by Murray and Federer shortly after, indoors. Not to mention being crunched by Mayer.
    In case you didn't know, Spain won Davis Cup on clay yesterday in their own country. They were the significant favourites to win. Now we go back to hardcourts for the next several months.
     
    #34
  35. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,464
    Of course Nadal has played many great shots to save break points, but the amount Federer sometimes has, they can't ALL be down to Nadal playing a great point. Sometimes he does just work hard to get Advatage and then dumps a second serve in the net. When you get someone as good as Nadal on crucial points you need to take any chance you can where it IS in your hands... and Federer a lot of the time hasn't. I mean 17 breakpoints, you are gonna have a good chance more than once. Not all 16 saved are because Nadal played too good.

    I dunno if Nadal can raise his levels to his best ever at this point. But he might not even have to, he's been consistant he just needs to keep being consistant and pick his moments.

    btw, he's not playing Davis Cup

    Yeah but every single year except 2010 Djokovic has had the beating of Nadal on hardcort. 2010 is the only year when he did not have at least an even H2H on hardcourt, and really when he's at his best he's far too good for Nadal, as evidenced by his 7 straight sets wins in their first 10 hc meetings. 2007 was 2-2 in H2H, 2008 was 2-1 to Novak and 2009 was 3-0 to Djokovic. 2010 was the first time they ever met in a hc slam and it was really at a time where it favoured Nadal more than Djokovic. But Djokovic at his best is too good for Nadal and it's been proved since 2007.

    Now Nadal has managed to improve his game so that he was able to give Novak harder matches on HC this year, but he'll need to keep his level really high to beat Djokovic or hope that Djokovic drops. I'll give you this, nadal has given Djokovic harder battles on HC this year, so if Djokovic drops off a bit and Nadal keeps playing like that on HC, then he's got a shot compared to other years where most times Djokovic would win in straight sets.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
    #35
  36. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    11,435
    I would be very interested to see if he can do it. Would a draw like that motivate him like nothing else before, or will it cause him to start booking his flight early. I would really like to see Federer on his side at this upcoming AO.

    If he does it, that would probably be his biggest success, certainly on a hardcourt.
     
    #36
  37. monfed

    monfed Guest

    I think he could beat Federer at AO considering how ridiculously slow its become with the use of heavier balls and with the huge matchup advantage he's got. I can't see him beating Nole if Nole plays anywhere near his best.

    Have we forgotten that Novak Djokovic is the unbeatable GOAT at the AO ? :)
     
    #37
  38. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,267
    So you think Djokovic will be the one to drop off and not Nadal who is actually older both in age and in tennis years and has had far more injuries?
     
    #38
  39. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,464
    I said IF he does. Also this is talking about the AO only. Novak could turn upand play below his best and Nadal could be motivated.
     
    #39
  40. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    2,395
    Location:
    Lucknow to kolkata
    corrected it for you..:):twisted:
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
    #40
  41. timeisonmyside

    timeisonmyside Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    693
    Location:
    Newport Beach, CA
    Wimbledon 2007 was the last time Fed beat Nadal in a slam. Since then, Nadal has beaten Fed in 2008 French, 2008 Wimbledon, 2009 Australian, and 2011 French.
     
    #41
  42. celoft

    celoft Guest

    Not a chance in hell. Would be straight sets win for the Serbian.
     
    #42
  43. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    25,781
    Location:
    Weak era
    It would be interesting if Nadal played Novak at 2012 AO, if Novak won he'll have a shot at both Nadal slam and career slam at FO later that year.
     
    #43
  44. Djokolate

    Djokolate Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    853
    Location:
    Funkytown
    Doubt it. It may be a close match, and I think he'll get past Federer, but Djokovic will come out on top. Oh, and yes ppls. I am back, for one thing and one thing only, to continue my trolling career on the interwebz.
     
    #44
  45. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    29,158
    Location:
    Brave New World
    You could be right. There's still stuff Djoker can improve.

    Also, if he gives up a few food groups, we could see Djoker 3.0 and even 4.0 after that.
    Fat-free Joker, sugar-free Joker, salt-free joker, and finally Djoker 5.0 will be water-free aka dehydrated Joker.

    No problemo. He picks his moments between points and serves.
     
    #45
  46. passive_aggressive

    passive_aggressive Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    220
    Can Nadal get through Federer and then Djokovic at the Australian Open?

    Yes. And easily.

    Federer is Nadal's ***** on every surface including outdoor hard, and best of 5 = Federer is toast. Even if Fed gets 2 sets up he will be too tired to seal the deal.

    Then Djokovic will likely continue the same poor form from the end of 2011. Djoker 2.0 was unsustainable.

    Any other tennis player apart from Djokovic and Federer kind of is not even a slam threat on their best day to Nadal on Nadal's worst day, so AO 2012 is a lock for Nadal.
     
    #46
  47. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,745
    Then why does he lead 4-0 indoors against Nadal?
     
    #47
  48. passive_aggressive

    passive_aggressive Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    220
    Hmmm... camp Fish is taking notes
     
    #48
  49. Fate Archer

    Fate Archer Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,667
    Pretty laughable assessment. But don't worry, for next year Rafito is a great chance at Barcelona and Monte Carlo.

    Of course, if Novak is not playing there.
     
    #49
  50. passive_aggressive

    passive_aggressive Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    220
    I meant to say every surface except indoor hard. And that's probably because indoor hard is best of 3 sets.

    Even on outdoor hard Federer has no chance.

    And I suspect that on indoor hard best of 5 sets Federer would have no chance either.
     
    #50

Share This Page