Can tennis players be "ripped"?

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by ogruskie, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Using a steroid and a cutting agent like Clen would allow you to cut and maintain the muscle mass.

    Just dump it all in your protein shake, add banana, blend.
     
    #51
  2. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    LOL, exactly ---it's just so wrong. :mrgreen:
     
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  3. TennisProdigy

    TennisProdigy Semi-Pro

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    A tennis player as ripped as the guy in that picture would not be able to move fast or agile and would not be able to achieve high racquet head speeds. If you add too much mass or muscle to your upper body you will become sluggish. Also, having a super ripped six pack will hinder your flexibility of your torso and hence the effectiveness of your serve, forehand and backhand. I say lose the chubbiness and add on some lean muscle and make sure you have plenty of muscle stamina for long matches.
     
    #53
  4. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    How would having less fat on the same set of abs cause a persson to have limited flexibility of the torso? That has absolutely nothing to do with fat.

    Everybody has a set of six pack ripped abs underneath their usual layer of fat.
     
    #54
  5. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    I would think, theoretically, that fat only hinders rotational movement. Also, whenever you have "too much" of anything it is implicitly bad.
     
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  6. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Here we go again. Do you belong to the myth of the month club?
     
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  7. FedererISBetter

    FedererISBetter Rookie

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    Does being ripped burn a lot more energy vs someone with a little more flab? Oc, this could be remedy by some small intakes between playing. I'm planning on trying to get ripped like paradorn... omgzz then get a wife like paradorn lol
     
    #57
  8. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    If two people have the same amount of muscle, and the same activity levels, and all else is equal, a person with more flab/fat will indeed burn more energy!

    Discuss why the above is true :D
     
    #58
  9. FedererISBetter

    FedererISBetter Rookie

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    wait wait, I meant if two people with the same weight but different body fat... wouldnt the person with the lower body fat burn more energy?
     
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  10. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Why would the person with lower bodyfat burn more energy, when the person with higher body fat, is actually moving more physical weight, and pumping blood to more tissues, and regulating temperatures of this additional weight, etc, etc.
     
    #60
  11. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    I have been lifting weights for 10 minutes now and i feel ripped already.
     
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  12. El Guapo

    El Guapo Semi-Pro

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    Totally wrong. You fell for the oldeset one in the book. What's heavier? A pound of bricks or a pound of feathers? LOL

    Weight being the same, the person with the greater amount of muslce will obviously burn more calories. Fat is dead weight and thus consumes almost zero calories. Muscles require a tremendous amount of energy just to maintain.

    Orange One was correct because in that example, body weight is not equal.
     
    #62
  13. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    Eh? The example was two people with the same amount of muscle and the same activity level. It didn't say anything about weight. If you've got two guys with the same amount of muscle, but one guy is 180 lbs and the other is 250 lbs, then the fatter guy's muscles are working a lot harder just to get him moving.
     
    #63
  14. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Absolutely! A person with more muscle mass will burn more calories than a person with less muscle and more fat. Let's say you have 2 men who both weigh 200 lbs.. One guy has 30% bf and one guy has 10%. 30 would have 60 lbs. of bf and 140 lbs. of lean mass while 10 has 20 lbs. of bf and 180 lbs. of lean mass. The lean guy will burn more calories both during exercise and at rest because muscle causes you to expend calories at an inefficient rate. That's right, I said inefficient. The person with high bodyfat will burn calories much more efficiently by using less calories throughout the day. The muscular guy has a sports car engine, using a lot of calories, while the fat guy has an economy car, using far fewer calories. This inefficiency is the reason it's so desirable for most of us to develop more muscle. Most of us are not disciplined enough to restrict our calories and we often go over our dietary needs. BTW, if it were true that a person with higher bodyfat burned more calories than a person with low bf, you'd see a lot more fat people get lean right before your eyes after just a few weeks of exercise. People with high bodyfat do not burn calories at a quicker rate than lean people.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2008
    #64
  15. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    Well, actually what happens is that when you are that fat you tend to have lower testosterone levels, much lower activity levels (all your joints ache), and probably lower levels of adrenaline, thyroid, etc. So, from a purely functional standpoint, the fat guy would actually do less with more, so to speak. :) Just look at all the fat guys on the tennis court. They move much less than the lean guys.

    Having said that, your quibble is a good one and more precision was necessary to define what we were talking about.

    -Robert
     
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  16. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    Nice stuff, Rickson.

    -Robert
     
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  17. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Thank you, Robert. I hope we can both be part of the exercise mythbusters team.
     
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  18. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    This is only true assuming that the person with higher bodyfat has either lower activity levels or lower overall muscle mass (or both) than the lean person in question.

    I'm all for exercise-myth-busting, as long as it's specific :)
     
    #68
  19. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    I was talking about 2 guys who weigh the same. The lean guy will burn more calories at rest and during exercise. It doesn't matter that the fatter guy has a bigger fuel tank (bodyfat). What matters is the rate at which he uses that fuel and the lean guy has a gas guzzling engine (more muscle). In other words, it's not the size of the fuel tank, it's the size of the engine that determines how much fuel is used. You seem to be stuck on the notion that just because the fat guy has more fat to burn, he'll actually burn more. Totally untrue, my friend. This is the sad reality and also a major reason why fat people have so much trouble losing bodyfat.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2008
    #69
  20. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    Rickson, Rickson, Rickson: we're talking about different things.

    I wasn't talking about 2 people that weigh the same, I was talking about two people with the same volume of lean muscle muss & same activity levels...but different total mass.

    For the record: I've been a gym/personal trainer, etc etc - you don't need to dumb it down to fuel-tank level for me. But if we want to dumb it down for the fun of it :), put simply: for a given engine, one will burn more fuel when towing around a bigger load was the simple point I was making in my little 'discussion point'. It was more a 'for the fun of it' point than anything else, and a point perhaps designed to create a little confusion (success there I guess).

    Nope... I'm certainly not making that assumption at all. As above, the point I was making was that the fat guy has to propel his fat. Read my point again, i'm joining your sentence and mine:

    The above is 100% true. Now, we all know people of higher BF% tend towards lower activity levels, but nonetheless, the point is true, moot (and or confusing) as it may be.
     
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  21. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Now let me get this straight. You're saying that 2 guys have the same amount of lean mass, but different bodyweight and one has more bodyfat so he'd naturally be the heavier one. You just changed the equation. I don't think that's what fedisbetter wanted to know, but that is a different scenario. I'm pretty sure fedisbetter wanted to know the example I presented.

    Check his followup post.

     
    #71
  22. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    I didn't change my equation - i've been presenting the same equation since I responded to FiBetter.

    That said, FedisBetter was indeed asking for the example that you presented, but the mind is not necessarily stimulated by merely answering the question that is asked...

    [/zen] :D


    As I said (and even made obvious with a 'discuss' joke at the end), my point was designed to take a creative spin on the question, and perhaps draw some interesting discussion. Goal achieved.
     
    #72
  23. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    You're a slick one, orange, a slick one.
     
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  24. FedererISBetter

    FedererISBetter Rookie

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    I totally need to re-read this because I'm not catching it lol! Let me blame it on being too early... : ) Glad I can stirr something up, thanks for the responses.
     
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  25. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    To sum it up, your initial belief was correct. The leaner guy can burn more fat during exercise.
     
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  26. chess9

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    Yes, and get and stay LEAN. Until we discover the many benefits of being obese :) suffice it to say that you want to be between 5% and 12% (max) bodyfat to play your optimum tennis if you are a male. Females, add 5-10%, depending on the curve quotient. :)

    -Robert
     
    #76
  27. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Nah, sorry, I admit I read it wrong. I thought the two had the same amount of muscle, but one guy had more fat on him. It is true muscle requires 8 times more calories than fat just to maintain. Good point.
     
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  28. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    That settles it. Get fat if you wanna burn more calories. This will help you lean down more quickly.
     
    #78
  29. Sleepstream

    Sleepstream Semi-Pro

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    Nah, you get fat because it works the legs harder, and we've all learned that working the legs increases GH response. This increased GH helps burn fat and gain muscle.
     
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  30. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    LMAO! Love it.
     
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  31. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    As much as you think this is a joke, some people will take you seriously and get fat on purpose with the intention of getting leaner in the long run. Yes, it would be one hell of a moron, but they are out there.
     
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  32. Phil

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    I'd say that 5-12% sounds a bit unrealistic for a male over 30 who is not seriously training in an endurance sport. But sure, if anyone in that demographic can make those numbers, they certainly will have achieved their optimum level of tennis fitness (but not necessarily PLAY their optimum tennis-ya still gots to hit the ball...).

    The only benefit I ever found from being somewhat overweight was in a place like Beijing, being able to put the added bulk to use in pushing on to the crowded busses (while blocking out smaller adversaries from getting on). Every bus trip starts as a rugby scrum;-)
     
    #82
  33. El Guapo

    El Guapo Semi-Pro

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    Not at all. I'm 7-8% BF (12-site skinfold) and far from being at my optimum level of fitness. I've also never been an endurance athlete. I run a 5k at about 24min which isn't very fast.

    Sweeping generalizations like yours don't serve any purpose.
     
    #83
  34. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    I think he's assuming that someone who could achieve such a low percentage of body fat would had to have worked the cardiovascular system to a great extent.

    It would be quite a feat to have 5% body fat and somehow not be in shape, unless you have some kind of work in your system.
     
    #84
  35. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    Mine is not a generalization. You may be an exception to the rule. As this is the Internet, there's always someone who comes up with an exception to a solid statement...that's how people "reason" on the Internet.
     
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  36. El Guapo

    El Guapo Semi-Pro

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    That's where he'd be wrong. As noted by my very average 5k time, I have not and do not work my cardiovascular system to a great extent.

    I can't even imagine being as fat as 12%.
     
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  37. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Caution here - in no way is a 'lot of cardio' required to get lean or down to 12% bodyfat, or lower. That is just common belief that is quite pervasive, yet not true. Weight training, and diet will get you as lean as you want. Cardio is fine, and good - just not mandantory for getting lean.
     
    #87
  38. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    Well, diet is probably 90% or more of the equation, but I assumed (mistakenly, maybe) that anyone training like I mentioned would also be on an appropriate diet, too. No one over 30 is going to hit 5% unless they are training like fools or have a genetic disposition for leaness. How many adults who are not professional athletes have the time and resources to do that?
     
    #88
  39. El Guapo

    El Guapo Semi-Pro

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    You're right about diet and genetics playing large roles. I do eat well (mostly) and am genetically gifted towards lean, type-II muslce tissue.
     
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  40. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Give me a f*cking break. You're 8% and you "can't imagine being as fat as 12%"? Don't you think that's both a stretch and an insult?

    12% is not fat and, in fact, is considered within the range of what is considered athletic.

    Maybe you can put on a 12% body fat suit to experience what it feels like to be at the heavier end of the athletic body fat category. I hope you have a car because it will be impossible to catch a cab.

    Puhleez.
     
    #90
  41. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    Don't worry storm, the only people I've ever met (and I have met a couple) who are in the "I'll be 8% forever" club without too much exercise... well they're at the ludicrous end of the metabolic scale.

    They're skinny, very skinny. They're hard-gainers, and tend to sometimes look a little silly when they even try to bulk up. They 'visually' age quicker than most.

    As a result of the above, they tend to not be too popular with their-partner-sex-of-preference, given that most have a preference towards shape, strength or youth....

    :D

    (And hey, I was harsh, but Mr-I-can't-imagine-12% asked for it! ;))
     
    #91
  42. Kaidoh Whip

    Kaidoh Whip New User

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    I'd work on getting slim and then strong legs. After that your arms don't matter so much really, if you can hit a sharp slice you don't need to much power.
     
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  43. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    It is just what someone is used to. If you are used to not carrying any fat around, and you put on a bit, and hit a bump in the car and feel something jiggle, it is like "Ewww gross!"

    If you are used to lugging around a gut, or other extra weight, then you scoff at people who are not as fat as you and say they need to lose mass, or they couldn't stand to be at what you are trying to achieve.

    It is just a matter of perspective. Some people couldn't imagine benching under 205lbs, some people couldnt imagine running slower than a 5:30 mile, and some people couldn't imagine being 12% BF.

    Look around people are pretty different.

    J
     
    #93
  44. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    Yup, sure. Except you're giving this lecture to the wrong person/people. I know what you're saying intimately, I've stood in the shoes of quite a few in this life, (and yet, still not nearly enough). I suspect storm knows where you're coming from too.

    My mostly tongue-in-cheek post was actually written in the spirit of widening horizons.

    If you really want to lecture on (accepting) differences, you should have chosen the post that inspired my & storm's replies as the one to respond to....

     
    #94
  45. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    lol, I couldn't do that, I agree with him. I would consider things out of control if I got over 12%.

    Just gotta stand up for spindly mofos the world over.

    Was at the gym last night and this huge guy looks over at the bench, and asks me if I am using it.

    Bar was loaded with 205 lbs.

    I was like "Dude I would need a F'ing crane to bench that thing."

    J
     
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  46. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Good statements on genetics, age, etc. A lot of truth there.

    I have an ecto/meso mix, so I started out as a youngster at <10% with nice six pack abs and all, but couldn't put on a lot of muscle mass, although muscular. I was at 160 for 15 years...then I turned 30, and the trip to 220 was too easy. I went then from 22% to 12% with diet, weights, tennis, and some cardio. Now I am at 17%. It does become harder with age, no question.

    The flip side for you skinny guys that want mass, the muscle mass becomes easier with age too, so work hard, and be patient. :) When you get there, you will want to be a skinny guy again, LOL.
     
    #96
  47. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Isn't this an oxymoron?
     
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  48. El Guapo

    El Guapo Semi-Pro

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    Exactly. People like storm just come off as close-minded.
     
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  49. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    No. Most poeple are a mix of varying samotypes. There ARE pure Ecto's, Mesos, and Endo's, but the more common thing is a combination. You can take a test of at tnationdotcom or bodybuildingdotcom to figure out most likely what you might be, can't remember which site offers this.

    In my case for example, I am faily muscular, can build muscle relatively well, have small joints, and can lean down pretty easily when dieting. I dont' build big mass quickly, but do add muscle 'relatively' easily when I target that.

    Also remember this key thing about Samotypes. They were developed in the field of psychology, and then adopted by the fitness industry. They are not set in stone, but show indications and tendencies based on certain traits.
     
    #99
  50. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    You're like a Charles Barkley who jumps high, but can't run fast. You might throw a ball fast, but you can't throw very far. You like girls, but you like boys too.

    Now I get the picture.
     

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