Can the talk of talk of top d3 schools being better than unranked d1 schools end?

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by swanpm20, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Care to cite any results from the 1-star and 2-star players at 3-4-5 positions from Morgan State that indicate they would win their matches against Washington and Lee?
     
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  2. goldy0084

    goldy0084 Rookie

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    Man you are really making me waste my time! You have little to no intimate knowledge of any of these players..that probably extends to most college teams. Tennis Recruiting offers a decent system, but it has its flaws. Amanda Mcdowell was a 4star. She had a just decent career at GT...oh yeah, she won an individual singles and team ncaa title. Some kids who are 1 stars have played very few tournaments, but are very good. What would the Williams sisters' tr ranking be? Wait, they didn't play usta and turned out ok.

    Morgan state would not blow away Wl but would beat them 100%. Evan Ward who has played 4 beat Fauchet from Richmond who pre senior year tank, was like 3 time first team A10 playing 1 and 2 for them. Duk park is by far their best player, but gets stacked lower. He beat Mcloskey from Vcu who is playing 1 dubs and would win D3 ncaas in singles. Borodkin was top 400 itf. The other Ward is not great, but athletic and can bluff his way through matches against decent d1 players.
     
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  3. goldy0084

    goldy0084 Rookie

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    ...and it's not that i am advocating for them, because they do suck in the scheme of things and a better d3 team like Emory WOULD beat them.
     
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  4. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    On the girls' side, they mature physically at an earlier age, and the best ones stop USTA play for bigger challenges at an earlier age than on the boys' side, which has an effect on the TRN accuracy at the very top. The examples you cited of very high level girls do not apply to lower-level boys, like those at Morgan State. Amanda McDowell was a 5-star, by the way, who only played enough USTA to get to around #30 her last two years in high school, which is very high 5-star, almost blue chip. She was a blue chip before that (e.g. 10th grade).

    I wonder what the Williams sisters and Amanda McDowell have to do with the level of players that Morgan State gets?
     
    #54
  5. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    Louisiana-Lafeyette beat #6 Xavier-NO of NAIA 6-1. I personally know Loic Didavi of Xavier. He used to always talk up how good his team at Xavier was. He suggested that them vs Clemson would be a good match.
     
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  6. goldy0084

    goldy0084 Rookie

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    The point is you have no frame of reference since you don’t know any of these players (which again, I’m sure extends to 99.9% of college players and coaches), probably have never seen any of them play, and have no idea how to evaluate their level other than looking at a Tennis Recruiting list. You cannot predict results of a dual match lining up TR ratings. It is a general guideline. Some “3star” players go to college and become great and some blue chip kids lay a goose egg. You lined up Elon and WL trying to predict who win a match based on “star ratings.” Sorry, but it doesn’t always work like that. Did you know that Elon pulled two guys? Have you ever personally seen Robert Lindgren hit a ball? Have you ever seen anyone on Morgan State play? List your qualifications to evaluate these players’ ability level even if you have seen them…which I highly doubt you have. 99% of what you are saying is coming out of your butt.
     
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  7. tennisjon

    tennisjon Semi-Pro

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    Agreed. The top D3 teams are almost entirely 4 star players, but as we all know that the TR system has its flaws and rewards play over ability. As stated the Williams sisters would have not even showed up on their system if you used junior tournaments.

    Although there are few D1 schools that are truly awful, there are tons of D2 schools that are awful. If a program goes unfunded and has a part-time coach, you can be almost certain that it won't be any good. Even an average D3 team will beat the bottom D2 teams in most conferences.
     
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  8. Coach Carter

    Coach Carter Rookie

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    This can get kicked around all day and will change from year to year, but my men's teams beat SWAC teams multiple times a year badly. Depending on how the person wants to twist the data and win the argument...you can. Scheduling is scheduling!
     
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  9. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    I saw quite a few of the Morgan State players play at the fall tournament at UVa. They were not at the ACC level, obviously, but were OK. I have no particular knowledge of the Washington and Lee players, however, so I should not use them as an example. In any case, we could find a D-I team that is not as good as Morgan State to make the same point, which is that there is some overlap between D-I at the bottom and D-III at the top, even if it is not a whole lot of overlap.
     
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  10. goldy0084

    goldy0084 Rookie

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    Hahhaha you crack me up man retracting your bad argument. It's ok to admit you are wrong. Obviously, you could find a team worse than Morgan (and keeping in mind Morgan is pretty bad) hah.Maryland Eastern Shore funds d1 men's tennis and would lose 0,0 in every match to Maryland's women's team. Heck, they would lose to Randolph Macon's women's team 7-0. If you were also at the uva fall invite and saw Park from Morgan and know anything about tennis, you would know he is not bad. With better coaching and guys to hit with, he would be a very decent d1 player. He would play top 6 at Boston College right now, but I don't really consider them an ACC team. Now, if you are talking about non-starters, UVA has two guys that would struggle to play in Morgan's top 3. Obviously their players are not at the "general standard" of of the ACC guys hahha I mean no kidding!! Not even in the same nebulus. But, remember, making broad generalizations is a no-no!!
     
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  11. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    just looked at Md Eastern Shore's results from last year.

    :cry:
     
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  12. drfrankfree

    drfrankfree New User

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    Carnegie Mellon(D3) defeats Bucknell( D1) 5-4
     
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  13. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Enough said.
     
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  14. Coach Carter

    Coach Carter Rookie

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    http://tennisrecruiting.net/list.asp?id=1139&order=conf&extra=D3

    To see just some of the studs that are going D3 of late, here is a link. I know many of the people who discount D3 will still do it and many won't understand the depth. Some of these won't pan out, will flame out, or will back out and of course some others not on the lists will end up at other D3's.
     
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  15. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    And this is just one of the small reasons D1 and D2 schools have to look far and wide for talent to compete, i.e. international players. Many of these kids can't be backfilled at D1 and D2 schools by fellow American players. However, the good news is there's so many options for American kids to play college tennis.
     
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  16. Overdrive

    Overdrive Legend

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    But for players like me, I want to go play tennis at a college where I'm WANTED and not NEEDED. However, since there are hundreds-thousands of male players out there, I guess I can't be picky eh?
     
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  17. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    If a junior player locks into one school then yes the opportunity may be limited. If a kid is open to play college tennis at many schools and levels of play, there's a place for about every U.S. kid out there to play college tennis.

    You can be picky if your open to a lot of options.

    Did you talk with that coach yet?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
    #67
  18. Overdrive

    Overdrive Legend

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    Oh okay. Thanks.

    No, I had a family emergency. :|

    It's very clear that because he hasn't replied to any of my emails, he's not interested. I'm going to have to go to win district or something to get his attention.
     
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  19. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Some coaches are not that good with email. Don't let that discourage you. Have you called him? You can get his number right off their website. Keep trying. If you wait to win district or something, you may still be waiting on his call.
     
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  20. tennisnj

    tennisnj Professional

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    I played for a D1 Big East school in the mid to late 90s & we would routinely lose to D2 & D3 teams often 7-0. We were horrible, yes, but to say that D1 is where it's at just isn't the case. We would lose to schools like Embry-Riddle (NAIA), Coe & Amherst.
     
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  21. Coach Carter

    Coach Carter Rookie

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    You have to realize that you aren't ranked and have little USTA experience. Your HS experience isn't going to draw much attention for him unless you go WIN STATE in Texas (he'd see that and be impressed, of course you'd be getting offers from other places then)...district is just district, unless New Braunfels or Highland Park is in your district and then you'd still have to point that out. It just will not get you noticed without the USTA pedigree.
     
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  22. Doubles

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    Dennison's a pretty good DIII team, they lost to UToledo 7-0. UT also beat UW-Green Bay 5-2 earlier this year, so I doubt UT would have a problem with Kenyon.
     
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  23. marquette100

    marquette100 New User

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    UWGB tennis is not good. They are decent this year because they dont have an American player on the roster. Nobody would elect to go there if they are a good player (hence all foreign players). It is a bad program with below average academics and no on campus. Have fun competing in the horizon league, that is one bad confrence.
     
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  24. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    I'm judging by your username but Marquette is not a whole lot better.
     
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  25. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    I don't get the controversy? Top DIII schools (Emory, UC-Santa Cruz, for example) actually are better than some DI schools. Granted, the DI schools they're better than are completley inconsequential, and the number of those DI schools that the Top DIII schools would be better than isn't that large. But, the fact remains that there are DIII schools out there that can beat some DI schools.

    How did this start? No one would propose that Top DIII schools can complete with the Top 10, 20, 30, or 40 DI schools. Did someone on TW posit that a Top DIII school could compete with or beat a merely "decent" DI school, ranked in the Top 50 or Top 100 (which would probably be false). Is that how this started?

    The base proposition isn't wrong. Any given year, there is a DIII school that can beat at least one DI school.
     
    #75
  26. 2ndServe

    2ndServe Professional

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    there are some really stacked community college and naia schools because they have less regulations than a d1-d3 school. Some years back College of the Desert was either a cc or naia school and it seemed like everyone one of them could and probably did play d1 tennis.
     
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  27. Doubles

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    Dude, they won the league last year. I don't care what your biases are, if you're winning your league at a collegiate level, the you're better than a large majority of the tennis playing population.
     
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  28. Doubles

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    One of there players from last year plays DI now.
     
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  29. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

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    Let's face it, there are quite a few DI schools that are not academically "elite". There will always be some players that could play tennis at a lower-end D1 but choose a more prestigious DIII school for academics.
     
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