Can the top 4 please stand up

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by PistolPete, Apr 29, 2005.

  1. PistolPete

    PistolPete Rookie

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    I think we could all agree that the top-4 men's players right now are Federer, Safin, Roddick and Hewitt. These guys are just in a category by themselves, with people like Henman, Moya and Fererro in a group just below. I've heard people say that there is no star power in tennis right now like there used to be in the past. The stars are there, particularly the four guys mentioned, it's just we dont get any personality from them, except for Safin. And though Federer is by far the No.1 player in the world, he definitly is not the No.1 personalilty in the tennis world. Eventually Federer, based on his play, could reach the same status as Sampras for the same reason Pistolpete because so great. Sampras was able to be popular because he was so good for such a long time, not because he had a good personality. Since there is no No.1 face for tennis right now, we need the pros, especially the best four: Federer, Safin, Roddick, and Hewitt -- to step up abd repopularize the game of tennis. Players today seem so isolated from public. This needs to change.
     
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  2. TennisD

    TennisD Semi-Pro

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    Nadal over Roddick...
     
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  3. GRANITECHIEF

    GRANITECHIEF Hall of Fame

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    Hewitt and Safin haven't won many matches lately, Hewitt out with injury and Safin needing brain viagra. Roddick with a recent title. Nadal definitely on fire.

    Two more master series and the French will definitely shake out the top 4.
     
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  4. Misiti99

    Misiti99 Guest

    Safin is capable of being top 2 but hes too inconsistent and he doesnt give a ****! he probably will be another Rios if u ask me and quit soon. Hewitt and Federer and Nadal are top 3.....how you can forget NADAL is amazing- you see his record this year...3 losses and 2 of them were to Federer and Hewitt (both in 5 long sets). The nextr group is Ljubicic Roddick and Agassi who are capable of beating anyone..Ljubicic has proved it and Agassi played his best tennis of his life against Coria in Miami....

    Best players right now
    1. Federer
    2. Nadal
    3. Hewitt
    4. Ljubicic
    5. Agassi
    6. Roddick
    7. Safin

    Safin hasn't done anything since the Australian and can someone TALK ABOUT LJUBICIC....this guy has been around a long time and hes having the best year of his career. He's obviously not a clay courter but it seems like the only person he's lost to this year on hard was Federer...in 3 different Finals....i believe he also lost to Nadal......He beat both Agassi and Roddick in Davis Cup...someone stop looking at the Big names and look @ the Rankings!
     
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  5. tykrum

    tykrum Rookie

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    I don't think a bunch of clay court events will show whos really in the top 4. The best 4 players on clay are Coria, Nadal, Gaudio and Federer. Even Moya, Nalbandian, and I don't even want to say the former Spanish #1 (for fear of jinxing) are all better than Roddick/Hewitt/Safin on clay. Those players definitely would not be the top 4 in the world. Clay just isn't a good indicator of player's true abilities because it takes a whole other style of play to be very successful than the rest of the year, definitely more so than grass. I think the true top 4 could be expanded to five now, Federer, Nadal, Hewitt, Roddick and Safin.
     
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  6. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    Thoughtful thread, PP.

    Borg didn't have much "personality" either ... and he had teenyboppers storming the hotels in every city in the world. (Enough of that...)

    Like it or not, TV exposure drives the popularity of sports personalities ... and, by extension, their sport. (Just ask Terrell Owens in the NFL. He probably added greatly to his income by "playing to the cameras" like he has. But he also added to the numbers of NFL fans ... who watch just to see the next goof ball thing TO will do.)

    Of the primary names mentioned so far ... Federer, Nadal and Ljubicic have weak (or poor) TV images. In order, the best TV personalities of the next batch are ... Roddick, Safin, Hewitt, then Agassi. (But Agassi's "TV Star" is fading....)

    Is "Media Relations" part of what the players' managers help them with? If not, why not?

    The "personalities" have great power. I wonder if they recognize it...?

    - KK
     
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  7. GRANITECHIEF

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    Tykrum, the next two master series and French open will shake out the top 4 players "up to this point in the season"

    I just realized that Roddick has actually gotten to the Semi's of the Italian before. Not bad.
     
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  8. DashaandSafin

    DashaandSafin Hall of Fame

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    Woww has everyone turned into a full out nadal fan here at tenniswarehouse? I think so. Every post is nadal, nadal, nadal. Roddick is better than nadal (see USO 2004). Rocked him outta his mind. Federer is better than Nadal. Safin is better than Nadal...when he wants to play. And ill bet Hewitt can eat Nadal alive. Nadals only doin good coz the rest of the field is pretty week. Coria and Ferrero still injured. Not much of Guga. Whose Nadal to beat? Gaudio? Costa?*laugh*
     
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  9. drexeler

    drexeler Rookie

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    I don't know whether Federer has "personality" or not, but he is arguably the biggest draw in tennis in the world today. The evidence is in the way he is courted by tournaments to have him in the draw, and by TV, print media etc. especially in Asia and Europe. Take the Dubai tournament - if Safin were more popular they would have had Safin play with Agassi on the helipad, not Federer. Currently, the Italian Open tournament webpage is featuring Fed.

    During the IW tourney, Kevin Patrick posted an article that said European TV is paying to have Federer's matches to be scheduled in such a way that they can be aired live in Asia as he has reached "rock-star" status internationally. Even in the US, his popularity seems to be on the rise. For instance, as part of promoting the Nasdaq tournament, organizers had life-size billboards of Fed installed at various public places in Florida (along with those of Roddick, Williams sisters and Sharapova). ESPN is also airing a lot of Fed matches lately.

    When you are a supreme champion or have sublime skills, I don't think you need "personality" to create waves. Case in point - Tiger Woods, Joe Montana.
     
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  10. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    Like it or not, Nadal could be huge for the sport. He's already a big star in Spain, knocking soccer of the front pages. He couldn't even go golfing this week without the press following him. He gave a press conference after each round of golf.

    He's mentioned in the “Who’s Hot” section of the May 2 Sports Illustrated. “Charismatic clay-court stud is thrilling his native land, pulling down sponsorships and even looking sharp in those stylish pants,” the magazine said … (Bet you guys will love the last part *lol*)

     
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  11. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    And to add to the Nadal hype, Rafa will be doing a photo/TV shoot with Andre in Roma:

    "All eyes will be on Rafael Nadal tomorrow, Sunday May 1, with the big surprise of this year's clay court circuit taking on one of the biggest names in the game, Andre Agassi, in a friendly knock-about at 2pm in front the Castel Sant Angelo near Saint Peter's cathedral for the benefit of photographers and television crew."
     
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  12. obackvalobasha

    obackvalobasha Banned

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    Man im sick of hearing about nadal. i just can't wait for the ddamn clay season to end and then see where nadal goes.
     
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  13. nkhera1

    nkhera1 Rookie

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    Pretty good list but I would put it in this order
    1. Federer
    2. Nadal
    3. Hewitt
    4. Roddick
    5. Ljubicic
    6. Safin
    7. Agassi
     
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  14. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    Now you know how some people feel about Federer. ;-)

    And remember Rafa posted some good results on hardcourt earlier this year. And he will be playing claycourt events in July.
     
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  15. Boy Wonder

    Boy Wonder Banned

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    Unlike some other Spaniards, Argentines, what have you, Nadal is more anxious to play on other surfaces other than clay. I heard that his favorite slam to win is Wimbledon, which just proves what he expects of himself. I think he can achieve on all surfaces.
     
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  16. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Yep, no doubting Nadal is good.

    I just don't like him, there is something about his game and the way he collapses after winning virtually every match it looks a bit fake really.

    I get the impression he plays to the crowed a bit too much.

    Fair play to him though for all his great results.
     
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  17. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    You really think that it's fake? From an 18-year-old? Felix Mantilla recently said that Rafa's a kid off the court, but he seems to be a 30-year-old on the court. But I think when he wins, he becomes the kid again. My view, of course, but that may be what creates the impression it's fake. In the end, he's just a kid who has a small room with lots of trophies:

    http://vamosrafael.smugmug.com/photos/19766189-M.jpg

    To see all the photos from that shoot, from French Tennis:

    http://vamosrafael.smugmug.com/gallery/367533
     
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  18. obackvalobasha

    obackvalobasha Banned

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    yop i very much understand susan. I really do

    but thanks God fed can dominate in other surfeses. Because if nadal was dominating, I don't think i would even watch tennis. thats how i personaly feel and i don't expect for anyone else to feel the way i do.

    GODSPEED FED
     
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  19. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

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    Dont worry, once the grass court season comes along Fed will be dominating, and Nadal will be in the background again for awhile. I like both players though.
     
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  20. Misiti99

    Misiti99 Guest

    obackvalosha and dafin and safina WAKE UP! NADAL COULD AND SHOULD HAVE BEATEN FEDERER FINALS OF MIAMI IF IT WASNT FOR A BAD CALL IN THE THIRD SET....HE LOST IN THE RND OF 16 IN THE AUSTRALIAN OPEN TO HEWITT IN 5 LONG SETS BECAUS HE SIMPLY WASNT FIT ENOUGH NOR READY FOR A BIG WIN LIKE THAT....HE'S DESTROYED EVERYONE ON CLAY AND HES 2 IN THE CHAMPIONS RACE AND 7 ON THE STUPID ENTRY LIST.....GET REAL HE'S THE REAL DEAL....RIGHT NOW AT LEAST HE WILL FINISH TOP 5 SO HOW CAN YOU EVEN CHALLENGE HIS HARDCOURT RECORD....LAST YEAR HE BEAT FEDERER AT MIAMI....AND HE'S NOT SHYING AWAY FROM WIMBLEDON.....
    LASTLY I SAID IT BEFORE AND ILL SAY IT AGAIN....SAFIN DOES NOT WIN ENOUGH TO BE A TOP 4 PLAYER...HES LOST IN THE OPENING ROUND 3 TIMES AFTER HIS AUSTRALIAN OPEN WIN.....LJUBICIC IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN SAFIN IS RIGHT NOW.......
     
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  21. nkhera1

    nkhera1 Rookie

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    Federer plays pretty well on most surfaces, and when has Rafa posted good hardcourt results outside of the Nasdaq 100 open which is really slow.
     
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  22. nkhera1

    nkhera1 Rookie

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    Lowercase letters are your friend
     
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  23. PistolPete

    PistolPete Rookie

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    nadal is the man

    when I posted this thread I had no idea that it would turn into the Nadal Fan Club web site.
     
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  24. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

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    I find it ironic, if you are a Sampras fan, you would find fault with the top 4 not doing enough to promote the game. Sampras himself was not exactly known for doing that, in fact he did almost none of that, so if one takes the stance it is fine for players to put the focus first and foremost at their own games and success, and not sacrifice or create conflict by doing their bit to promote and market the game, than that would apply to the current four as well. :)
     
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  25. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    The difference being is that Federer's strokes and movement are a thing to watch compared to Nadal's.
     
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  26. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    He did reach the Auckland final last year, when he was 17. He's won challengers on hardcourt. And he has two doubles titles on hardcourt, and reached the semis of the U.S. Open in doubles. And the fourth round at the AO this year, as well as the third round of Wimbledon in 2003. (Remember an injury disrupted most of 2004.)

    And he's 18 years old, almost 5 years younger than Federer. So comparisons between them aren't particularly appropriate, are they? Or if they are, should we compare the stats of the two of them at the same age? Remind me again what Masters Series final and title Roger gained at that age?

    Rommil, I agree both players have different styles. I like both styles. Roger is more stylish, but Rafa is the more exciting player, IMO.
     
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  27. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    The reason it did is because Rafa is tennis's "IT boy" at the moment. And also, it's possible he will supplant one of your Top 4 in the near future.

    And given that Hewitt is not playing, and that Roddick and Safin haven't done much lately, he's a bit more interesting to discuss. Perhaps this thread would have gone in the direction you expected if it was posted after the clay season.
     
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  28. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

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    VamosRafa, since you run Nadal's website how well do you know him personally. What kind of a kid is he like in real life?
     
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  29. DashaandSafin

    DashaandSafin Hall of Fame

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    Ugh Misty...Safin is the most talented player every dont argue with me. I wish *(#@( TW haddnt cloaked my other name (Roddick Safin). Pull up old posts. Plus i was rooting for Nadal in the Miami Final you dolt. Look at my previous posts in Roddick Safin i was goin crazy when Nadal was 2 pts away.. It just seems like all this hype around him...i dunno i just dont like it.
     
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  30. PistolPete

    PistolPete Rookie

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    You cannot base greatness on what you have done in the past two months. Has Nadal won any majors yet? No. I'm not doubting that he is good, but it is amazing how many people have jumped on the Nadal bandwagon and are ready to say he is better than Safin or Roddick. I judge greatness by performance in majors, not by any masters series events. Just because a guy has won some tour events does not mean he is great.

    Roddick and Safin haven't done much lately?!?!?! Last time I checked, Safin won the Austrialian Open in January. Roddick won the U.S. Open in Septmeber. Both less than a year ago. If winning a major in the year we are currently in isn't good enough, I don't know what is. Hewitt, though he hasn't won a major in a while, has won multiple. These guys are clearly in a nother level from the others.

    Ljubibic, as a bunch of people wrote belonged at the top, though he can beat anyone at any time, I'd like to see him string a couple of wins together and be more consistent. Ljubicic is no where near the top 4 i mentioned, he's not even close to Nadal. Let's not annoint Nadal or anyone else that has a hot couple of months to the top of the tennis world.
     
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  31. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

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    Roddick won the U.S open the September before last, not last September, it is about 20 months ago now.
     
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  32. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    I don't disagree with what you say, Pistol. But as the players often say, the rankings doing lie. And it's very likely Rafa will be Top 5 or Top 4 very soon. He's undoubtedly the No. 2 player on this year (which encompasses four months, not two).

    He hasn't won a major yet, but he's 18 years old. Give him time. He has never played Roland Garros before, and hasn't played Wimbledon since 2003. He's still a work in progress, and he's got time. And more importantly, he's got game, and the attitude to want to win at everything.
     
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  33. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    I've met him a few times, and he's always been very nice. The language barrier is an issue, but his English is improving (can't say that about my Spanish).

    But what do you want to know specifically? What I know about him from others, or what I know about him based on his contacts with me.
     
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  34. PistolPete

    PistolPete Rookie

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    That's my point, Give him time. He's not in the Top 5 or 4 yet. So let's not think of him that way. He is no where close to being great right now, even if he wins one major. Albert Costa won one French, he's not great.
     
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  35. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    How long do you think it will be before he gets into the Top 5?

    Remember, he has no points to defend until July.

    And you don't have to be a great player before people start talking about you. That would be really stupid.

    If so, why are we talking so much about Richard Gasquet? One big win, and I see a hoard of people on that bandwagon, which includes following him through qualifying in Roma.

    I think it's great, BTW. Have to have something to do when the Top 4 aren't around or are doing badly. And last I looked, the Top 100 had some pretty talented guys who aren't named Federer, Safin, Hewitt, Roddick or Nadal.

    Thankfully the Tour doesn't depend entirely on them.
     
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  36. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

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    VamosRafa, I was just curious what he is like, nothing more. Your answer was fine enough.

    Rafael Nadal is no Albert Costa, or should I say it the other way around, but you get the picture. LOL!
     
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  37. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    No, I don't. Al is a very funny guy, who has great English. I spoke with him in Cincy 2003, right after I started the Nadal site, and he told me then that Rafa would be the No. 1 one day. He said no doubt in his mind that Rafa would be the best Spanish player ever. And I mentioned Ferrero, Roddick, Federer, etc., and Al just pointed to his head and said, "Rafa is so strong there. I've never seen anyone like him."

    So we shall see. He's right that Rafa is about to be, if he isn't already, the No. 1 Spanish player.

    The Spanish Davis Cup captains aren't stupid -- why do you think they started playing him in deciding Davis Cup rubbers at age 17, on hardcourts? Gotta be something about that kid??? If it hadn't been for him, Spain would have been in relegation last year.

    As for Rafa' personality, although he's compared a lot to Hewitt, he is very well liked on the ATP, especially among his Playstation partners. Once our MB comes back up, I'll have to post Juan Monaco's recitation of playing soccer on Playstation with Rafa. It is hilarious. Rafa got so mad when his team, Real Madrid, lost, that he threw the control at the refrigerator.
     
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  38. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

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    I meant reflecting on PistolPete saying Costa has won a French Open but is not really great, to mean that Nadal was no Costa in terms of potential and probable greatness in the game, he will have accomplished alot more than Costa by the time he is past 30. I did not mean to imply anything about their personalities.
     
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  39. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

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    This is the quote I should have used when I said that Nadal was no Costa.
     
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  40. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    Sorry, didn't understand. Rafa has to win a slam event before we can even start those comparisons. But he's doing okay for a kid his age, and I suspect by the time he's Big Al's age, he'll have more than one slam trophy in his closet. Going out on a limb there . . . .

    But it's possible, and even likely, that Rafa will be in the Top 5 without winning a slam. And that happens every year -- many of the guys who are in the Masters Cup haven't won a slam. I realize they may not be great players -- such as Coria, Nalbandian, Schuettler, et al. -- but they get they get to the MC anyway. Could happen with Rafa, too. There are only 4 slams a year, and 8 slots, alas.
     
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  41. PistolPete

    PistolPete Rookie

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    All the players in the Top 100 are clearly talented otherwise they wouldn't be there. That's not the issue. All the talented players in the world aren't going to sell the game of tennis to anyone besides hard-core tennis fans, who will stick around no matter what. In order to reach mass audiences you need star power. Federer, Safin, Hewitt, Roddick and for arguments sake since you do run a Nadal web site, Nadal can provide that. The Tour needs to depend on the stars otherwise its not going to grow in popularity and we are not going to see tennis on tv other than early morning on ESPN2.
     
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  42. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

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    LOL! I think it is safe to say he was far more potential and talent than Costa ever
    did, that is not such a long limb. That is not to diminish Costa, he is very good, especially on clay, and it is good he did get that FO title, he should have had it somewhere in 95-99, then got it after his time was probably up with some luck. However he is no Nadal, he never had Nadal's potential.
     
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  43. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    You are preaching to the choir here, PistolPete. And because I do run a Nadal site, I see what is going on with the Rafa-lution and Nadalmania. It hit close to home, literally, as we had to change severs this past week because our old one couldn't accommodate the traffic. We now have 2000 MB of space, and 60 GB of bandwidth. It may not be enough.

    But that's beside the point. Our traffic is global, but it does increase A LOT when Rafa is shown on TV in the U.S. No doubt. But to quote Jon Wertheim, yet again, ESPN has to do it's part to create excitement for Roland Garros. And if they highlight the usual suspects they may be disappointed. I can't control it. I can only reiterate what Jon said weeks ago (and this is one thing about doing a player site, you have all this stuff catalogued and at your fingertips):

     
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  44. federerhoogenbandfan

    federerhoogenbandfan Banned

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    1000 times more likely to win Roland Garros than Andy Roddick. Ouch! Not that I disagree but if anybody close to him reads that, major ouch.
     
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  45. VamosRafa

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    It's the truth, and I just love Andy.

    I did a Roddick site before I did the Nadal one. I'm surprised no one has brought up that particular bias in a while. *lol*
     
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  46. PistolPete

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    you are allowed to have your bias. To have opinions, that's the whole point of these message boards. But Roddick and Nadal is an unlikely combonation to like. There's alot of Roddick haters and alot of Nadal lovers, but few who enjoy both.
     
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  47. VamosRafa

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    I'm one of those chosen few, I guess. Just love that inside-out-forehand, no matter what side it is generated on.

    As for Fed, what's not to like?

    As for Hewitt, what is there to dislike? Lots, but I admire his tenacity in the face of so much adversity.

    As for Safin, well, his fans know that conundrum. I don't need to add to it.

    So again, who do you think is going to get the ATP to the front page of sports news???
     
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  48. montx

    montx Professional

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    Can the toup four please stand up?

    I am standing proudly
     
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  49. PistolPete

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    I didn't think you were asking me that question before.

    Becuase of the lack of personality and the feeling from the top guys that they don't need to get out in public and promote the game, I think that will we have to wait until Federer reaches a similar status that Sampras has. Sampras had and has the personality of a brick but because he won so much and was great for such a long period of time, and put tennis on the map, though ever so slighty, more than it is today. If Federer can win consistenly and stay No.1 for an extended period of time, he will be on the front page of sports news.

    The only other thing is if a young prodigy wins a major, and he or she has to WIN it. Nobody cares if they get to the semi-finals are round of 16. I realize Nadal is 18 and not a prodigy, but he is young and could kind of fit in (a young kid winning a major), but in the United States, sadly I don't think anyone would care. Donald Young, who I'm also not sold on, has had so much hype surround him, so I think it would take him winning to get into the spotlight, at least in America. Sad but true.
     
    #49
  50. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,202
    So the pressure is off Nadal. Even if he wins RG, since he isn't American, no one in the US will care. *phewww* Glad to hear it. Vamos, Rafael!

    And if you and ESPN are waiting for Donald Young, you are going to have a long wait. Sad but true. And totally idiotic.

    And even more idiotic is waiting for Fed to reach Sampras proportions. How stupid is that? He already is great the way he is. But alas, he isn't playing this week.

    But Agassi is, so all eyes and lenses are on him in Roma. Does Agassi qualify as a great? Just asking!

    http://www.telecomitaliamasters.it/public/pop_agassi_nadal05.jpg
     
    #50

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