Can we all agree that the question of goat is now officially arguable?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by The Dark Knight, Sep 23, 2013.

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Is the question of goat (nadal or Fed) now officially arguable

  1. Yes one can argue both is candidate for goat logically & legit

    48.4%
  2. No Fed is the undisputed goat.

    51.6%
  1. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    after all the back and forth....can we finally just all agree that an argument for Nadal or Fed as goat is officially arguable.

    both sides have logical points

    poll coming
     
    #1
  2. ripitup

    ripitup Banned

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    It always was arguable. Federer was never the undisputed GOAT even when Nadal wasnt yet in contention. That was a Federer fanbase self created fantasy.
     
    #2
  3. Rafa has no case as of today.

    Good chance he will by the time he ends his career.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2013
    #3
  4. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    well having them officially admot that is a whole different story.
     
    #4
  5. ripitup

    ripitup Banned

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    Even if Rafa didnt have a case (which I disagree on), there are many others who do (Laver, Gonzales, maybe Rosewall) so the thread title still would not change. Federer is not and never was the undisputed GOAT. Federer fans desperately want to potray him as the Michael Phelps, Michael Jordan, or Usian Bolt of tennis, but in reality he is nowhere close. He is merely one of the short list who could be argued as best ever, nothing more.
     
    #5
  6. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    well the vote is 5-1....we may have a peace treaty here between both camps!

    I may become famous for this :)....oops I already am famous here...or should I say infamous. :)
     
    #6
  7. Famous for being a poor mans' N-S-K




    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=478101
     
    #7
  8. helterskelter

    helterskelter Professional

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    Do you regard it as inarguable that one or the other of them is the GOAT?

    I personally think they are both weak candidates.
     
    #8
  9. Safinator_1

    Safinator_1 Professional

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    Agree on that part, this also holds true for all players as it is literally impossible for one single player to hold all the records (how many there are) to claim undisputed GOAT.
     
    #9
  10. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    OK Fed fantics have now been located and identified:

    FedererWinsWimbledon2014, slickerthansleek
     
    #10
  11. As of today Nadal has no case for GOAT, he is yet to surpass Sampras.
     
    #11
  12. Defensive Tennis

    Defensive Tennis Rookie

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    It's hard for me to vote with the eras of tennis being different. I like to wait until the player has retired as well before I start thinking in those terms, but that's just me.
     
    #12
  13. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    well the list of people that disagree with you is growing my friend. did you see the newest? namely Andre Agassi?

    Must be weird for you to be in the minority huh?
     
    #13
  14. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    10is....;not you!!!!!!

    Your to cool to vote so biased.....come on man!
     
    #14

  15. [​IMG]

    Most GS titles
    1. Roger Federer 17*
    2. Pete Sampras 14
    3. Rafael Nadal 13*
    4. Björn Borg 11
    5. Jimmy Connors 8
    = Ivan Lendl 8
    = Andre Agassi 8
    8. John McEnroe 7
    = Mats Wilander 7
    10. Dkokovic 6*
    = Stefan Edberg 6
    = Boris Becker 6

    GS finals
    1. Roger Federer 24*
    2. Ivan Lendl 19
    3. Pete Sampras 18
    = Rafael Nadal 18*
    5. Björn Borg 16
    6. Jimmy Connors 15
    = Andre Agassi 15
    8. John McEnroe 11
    = Mats Wilander 11
    = Stefan Edberg 11
    =Novak Djokovic 11*

    Consecutive GS finals
    1. Roger Federer 10*
    2. Roger Federer 8
    3. Rafael Nadal 5*
    4. Andre Agassi 4
    = Rod Laver 4
    = Novak Djokovic 4*
    7. Jimmy Connors 3
    = Andy Murray 3*
    = Björn Borg 3
    = Björn Borg 3
    = Björn Borg 3
    = Ivan Lendl 3
    = John McEnroe 3
    = Ivan Lendl 3
    = Ivan Lendl 3
    = Mats Wilander 3
    = Jim Courier 3
    = Jim Courier 3
    = Pete Sampras 3
    = Rafael Nadal 3*


    GS semi-finals
    1. Roger Federer 33*
    2. Jimmy Connors 31
    3. Ivan Lendl 28
    4. Andre Agassi 26
    5. Pete Sampras 23
    6. Rafael Nadal 21*
    = Novak Djokovic 21*
    7. John McEnroe 19
    = Stefan Edberg 19
    9. Boris Becker 18
    10. Björn Borg 17


    Consecutive GS semi-finals
    1. Roger Federer 23*
    2. Novak Djokovic 14*
    3. Ivan Lendl 10
    4. Ivan Lendl 6
    = Nadal 6
    6. Novak Djokovic 5*
    = Andy Murray 5*
    = Boris Becker 5
    9. Roger Federer 4*
    = Rod Laver 4
    = Tony Roche 4
    = John McEnroe 4
    = Andre Agassi 4
    = Jim Courer 4
    = Nadal 4*


    GS quarter-finals
    1. Jimmy Connors 41
    2. Roger Federer 40*(41 if not for walk-over in 2004)
    3. Agassi 36
    4. Ivan Lendl 34
    5. Pete Sampras 29
    6. John McEnroe 26
    = Stefan Edberg 26
    7. Novak Djokovic 26*
    8. Rafael Nadal 25*
    9. Boris Becker 23
    10. Björn Borg 21

    Consecutive GS quarter-finals
    1. Roger Federer 36*
    2. Ivan Lendl 14
    = 3. Novak Djokovic 18*
    4. Rafael Nadal 11
    5. = Andy Murray 11*
    6. Pete Sampras 10
    7. Ivan Lendl 7
    = Mats Wilander 7
    10. Andre Agassi 6
    = Rafael Nadal 6*

    All Four Slams Per Year
    Rod Laver 1969

    Three Slams Per Year
    Jimmy Connors 1974
    Mats Wilander 1988
    Roger Federer 2004
    Roger Federer 2006
    Roger Federer 2007
    Rafael Nadal 2010
    Novak Djokovic 2011


    All Four Finals Per Year
    Roger Federer 2006
    Roger Federer 2007
    Roger Federer 2009
    Rod Laver 1969

    All Four Semi-finals Per Year
    Rod Laver 1969
    Ivan Lendl 1987
    Roger Federer 2005
    Roger Federer 2006
    Roger Federer 2007
    Roger Federer 2008
    Roger Federer 2009
    Rafael Nadal 2008
    Novak Djokovic 2011
    Novak Djokovic 2012
    Novak Djokovic 2013
    Andy Murray 2011

    Most consecutive matches won at one Grand Slam event:
    1. Björn Borg (Wimbledon), 41
    2. Roger Federer (Wimbledon), 40(41 if not for walk-over in 2007)
    = Roger Federer (US Open), 40
    4. Pete Sampras (Wimbledon), 31
    = Rafael Nadal (French Open), 31


    Most Grand Slam match wins
    1. Roger Federer 259*
    2. Jimmy Connors 233
    3. Andre Agassi 224
    4. Ivan Lendl 222
    5. Pete Sampras 204

    Other Stuff:

    Year-End Championships
    1. Roger Federer 6*
    2. Ivan Lendl 5
    = Pete Sampras 5
    4. Ilie Nastase 3
    = John McEnroe 3
    = Boris Becker 3

    Most Weeks at #1
    1. Roger Federer 302*
    2. Pete Sampras 286
    3. Ivan Lendl 270
    4. Jimmy Connors 268
    5. John McEnroe 170
    6. Björn Borg 109
    7. Rafael Nadal 102*
    8. Novak Djokovic 99+*
    9. Andre Agassi 101
    10. Lleyton Hewitt 80


    Consecutive Weeks at #1
    1. Roger Federer (1) 237
    2. Jimmy Connors (1) 160
    3. Ivan Lendl (1) 157
    4. Pete Sampras (1) 102
    5. Jimmy Connors (2) 84
    6. Pete Sampras (2) 82
    7. Ivan Lendl (2) 80
    8. Lleyton Hewitt (1) 75
    9. John McEnroe (1) 58
    10. Rafael Nadal (1) 56

    Year End #1
    1. Sampras 6
    2. Federer 5*
    3. Borg 4
    4. Connors 3
    = Lendl 3
    = McEnroe 3


    Highest Season Winning Percentage
    1. John McEnroe (1984) .965 82–3
    2. Jimmy Connors (1974) .959 93–4
    3. Roger Federer (2005) .953 81–4
    4. Roger Federer (2006) .948 92–5
    5. Björn Borg (1979) .933 84–6
    6. Ivan Lendl (1986) .925 74–6
    7. Roger Federer (2004) .925 74–6
    8. Ivan Lendl (1985) .923 84–7
    9. Ivan Lendl (1982) .922 106–9
    10. Björn Borg (1980) .921 70–6
    = Novak Djokovic (2011) 0.921 70-6

    Most ATP Titles
    1. Jimmy Connors 109
    2. Ivan Lendl 94
    3. Roger Federer 77*
    = John McEnroe 77
    5. Björn Borg 64
    = Pete Sampras 64
    7. Guillermo Vilas 62
    8. Andre Agassi 60
    9. = Rafael Nadal 60*
    10. Boris Becker 49

    Consecutive Match Win Streak
    1. Björn Borg 49 1978
    2. Björn Borg 48 1979–80
    3. Guillermo Vilas 46 1977
    4. Ivan Lendl 44 1981–82
    5. Novak Djokovic 43 2010–11
    6. John McEnroe 42 1984
    7. Roger Federer 41 2006–07
    8. Thomas Muster 35 1995
    = Roger Federer 35 2005
    10.Jimmy Connors 33 1974
     
    #15
  16. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Agassi is the man :)
     
    #16
  17. Nadal is the man :)

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=478101


    At the end of the day, we both know your not a Nadal fan.

    You just want some attention, don't worry I am a nice guy, if you need attention i'm happy to reply to you on here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2013
    #17
  18. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    #18
  19. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    No Grand Slam.

    Federer was not in the conversation, and the increasing number of pros, journalists, et al, hammer that point home, no matter how many trivia lists you post.
     
    #19
  20. Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2013
    #20
  21. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    No Grand Slam.

    Fed's fate was to never be the GOAT.
     
    #21
  22. helterskelter

    helterskelter Professional

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    So the only people in the conversation are Budge and Laver?
     
    #22
  23. ripitup

    ripitup Banned

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    If stats were all that mattered Court would be undisputed womens GOAT but she isnt even in the conversation. Most of those stats are useless for the purpose of history anyway as you cant compare weeks at #1 before 1975, you cant compare slams won before 1969 unless you are going to add pro slams in which case Federer falls out of the top 3 in slam wins, and so on.
     
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  24. helterskelter

    helterskelter Professional

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    That's a recent development, though. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, it was commonly thought that Court was at least as great as either Evert or Navratilova. I have a full set of "World of Tennis" volumes from 1984 to 2001, and several articles in those books compare her favorably to either of them.
     
    #24
  25. ripitup

    ripitup Banned

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    Interesting point. I guess it goes to show what is likely to happen to Federer in the future. His fans should enjoy today when is even a GOAT contender of any sort (although not the undisputed one they desperately seek to believe he is, he isnt even undisputed best of his own era anymore).

    Court is still viewed roughly equal with Evert, but inferior to Graf, Serena, and Navratilova.
     
    #25
  26. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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    It's always arguable. There is no official GOAT and never will be. Its just a public and professional opinion.
     
    #26
  27. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    With every additional slam Nadal wins - especially off clay - the question of who owned this era will become murkier. IMO, another AO win will place Federer's legacy in serious dispute. That will be a double career golden grand slam for Nadal.

    Another huge milestone will be 10 French Open titles
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
    #27
  28. Anti-Fedal

    Anti-Fedal Professional

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    Can all you Nadal and Federer fanatics finally just accept that there are other players in history who have had better careers and have better resumes and GOAT credentials than these two.

    The more you fail to acknowledge the likes of Laver, Rosewall, Pancho and Tilden as GOAT candidates, the more stupid and arrogant it makes you look.
     
    #28
  29. helterskelter

    helterskelter Professional

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    The problem here is that there's a G/B tension. The "best" players are almost always more recent, as the overall standard does tend to improve. The "best player of all time" will usually be the most recent dominant #1. (I say this rather than "the current #1" because obviously a non-dominant #1 might well not be as good as the dominant #1 who preceded her, as in when Wozniacki was #1). The "greatest" is increasingly unlikely to be a recent player as time goes by.

    But I think that gets blurred in the women's game because the standards improve so much. I don't see why people should be so convinced that Serena is greater than Court, but her level of play is so obviously better that people think she is.

    It's clearly that Navratilova's highest level was higher than Evert's highest level. But Evert peaked much earlier and for much longer. I don't think it's by any means clear than Navratilova was greater than Evert.

    Personally, I'm not that interested in the Nadal/Federer debate. As I said earlier, I think they are both weak candidates.
     
    #29
  30. helterskelter

    helterskelter Professional

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    To clarify on my previous post: I think it's pretty much unquestionable that Serena is "better" than any other woman player has ever been, but I think it's also pretty hard to argue that she is "as great" as two or three of her predecessors, although she may perhaps be able to catch up in that category.
     
    #30
  31. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Till someone gets one more major than Fed, he is the indisputable GOAT.

    GOAT does not mean he has everything in history. GOAT implies whoever has accomplished most, the primary criterion being the number of majors (open era).

    There are 3 near GOAT's who are clearly not GOAT's and they are on record stating Fed as the greatest.

    Who cares what attention mongers like Mac or forum members opine ? I care about the opinion of Laver, Sampras and Nadal. if one or two of them said Nadal is the GOAT, then we can debate. Right now Nadal has to concenterate on bridging the gap.
     
    #31
  32. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    I think all reasonable TT contributors can agree that there is no GOAT. We can not fairly compare accomplishments across eras for a variety of reasons - including string/racquet technology, training techniques, venue importance (AO not popular pre-1988 ), world team tennis participation, etc.

    However, we can compare who owns the current era of tennis - the post Sampras/Agassi era. I'd say the current era started right around 2000-02
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
    #32
  33. helterskelter

    helterskelter Professional

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    Of course there's no GOAT. It's one of the more asinine debates in sports. But it can be interesting nonetheless.

    It's impossible to compare across eras. Just to take the two most recent, there's enormous debate about whether the Sampras era or the current era was stronger. I for sure think the Sampras era was, because the game was much deeper. But others think this one is because of the "Big 4". (One of the reasons I reject that view is that I don't like the "Great Man Theory of History" in general, and it seems to me that overall depth is much more important than a couple at the top). There's really no way to prove which era was stronger, so inter-era comparisons are on much weaker footing than intra-era ones.

    All a player can do is be the best in their era.

    For that reason, I think Federer and Nadal have weak claims in comparison to Sampras (even before we get into the vexed issue of comparing Open Era players to the likes of Tilden, Gonzalez, Rosewall, and Laver). Sampras was clearly the best player in his era, and so did everything he could do. Neither Federer nor Nadal is clearly the best player in his era, so neither has done everything that he could do.

    But, anyway, it's a pointless debate.
     
    #33
  34. ripitup

    ripitup Banned

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    Then why did you vote Federer is the undisputed GOAT. You seem to contradict your own words.
     
    #34
  35. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Why are you trying to compare era's ? If you think Sampras was great, how come he had 8 second round or early losses at FO ?

    The first prereq to a comparison would be to check whether you have won all the majors, how many and then how long you were at the top. Federer tops.
     
    #35
  36. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Im not sure it was ever arguable.

    I don't think there are many arguments if ANY that could have ever gone against Laver.

    If we talking just Open Era GOAT? Its definitely now a 3 man race between Sampras/Federer/Nadal. Arguments can be made for and against all 3.
     
    #36
  37. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    It's debated all over the net/

    Nadal in greatest of all-time talk

    NEW YORK -- Rafael Nadal was bludgeoning forehands at Novak Djokovic, and sprinting from corner to corner, the baseline to the net and back to the baseline again, refusing to surrender even one blasted point. But all that torture was over now. Now it was just the months when Nadal was so sore-kneed he wasn't sure he'd be healthy enough to be back on the tennis tour, period, that came rushing back to him and sent the 27-year-old Spaniard collapsing to the ground at Arthur Ashe Stadium on Monday. Then he buried his face in the crook of one arm to have a good, shoulder-heaving cry.

    The greatest and most affirming year of Nadal's career had just ended with a US Open victory over Djokovic that catapulted Nadal right back into the greatest of all-time discussion.


    Susan Mullane/USA TODAY SportsRafael Nadal beat Novak Djokovic to win the US Open.

    If 17-time Grand Slam winner Roger Federer isn't feeling his grip on Best Ever slipping after this, and Pete Sampras, who resides just one Grand Slam title ahead of Nadal's new total of 13, isn't feeling the Spaniard's breath on his neck like a hot draft from hell, the two of them should.

    After the year he just had, Nadal has served notice that both men are in danger of being eclipsed when it comes to who should be regarded as the best men's player in history.

    The level that Nadal and Djokovic pushed each other to before Nadal pulled away to a 6-2, 3-6, 6-4, 6-1 victory was that consistently spectacular. And it was no wonder that he thanked Djokovic so profusely afterward. It's unlikely Nadal would be able to cement his place in history so strongly if he didn't have such a worthy rival who demands as much out of him as Djokovic does.

    "That's what we do when we play," Djokovic shrugged.

    By any measure -- head-to-head career statistics, the anecdotal evidence, or just the eyeball test -- it's Djokovic, not the more celebrated Federer, who has been Nadal's most consistently dangerous opponent.

    The lag in acknowledging that these two are the best rivalry the men's game has seen since Agassi-Sampras needs to be eliminated. Starting now. And the same goes for Nadal's outdated "lunchpail player" or "claycourt specialist" labels that always left him suffering in any comparison to Federer, tennis' greatest stylist of all-time.

    When asked if the "only-a-claycourter" label bothered him, Nadal shot back "No" -- then did something almost unprecedented for him in the past: He actually bragged about himself a little.

    "I knew I was a good player on hard[court] before," Nadal said. "I understand people say I am a claycourt specialist ... But I was able to play five finals in Wimbledon, I think. Five, yeah? I was able to play three finals in US Open. I was able to play two finals in the Australian Open, so ..."

    So there, he might as well said.

    Djokovic has played epic matches against Nadal in some of those other venues too.

    Given his now 3-3 record versus Nadal in Slam finals, Djokovic hasn't totally assumed the lesser role Andre Agassi had in his rivalry with Sampras. But like Agassi back then, Djokovic is the man whose game provides the best X-ray of just how much will and stamina and variety of shots Nadal has to summon. Don't forget, it was Djokovic -- not the red-hot Nadal -- who came into this match with a 97-week stranglehold on the No. 1 ranking that Nadal had previously held for two years. But that was before injuries to Nadal's knees started to chip away at the glowing appraisals about his future, shadowing every prediction of where he might end up in history when it's all said and done.

    Nadal seems to have shelved the longevity worries for now, too, after the way he stormed back to dominate the tour this year. In addition to being the only men's player to win two Slams, he has won 10 of the 13 tournaments he entered, starting slowly as a wild card entry in a modest tournament in Chile, and building up, up, up from there.


    Susan Mullane/USA TODAY SportsNadal's 13 majors should have Roger Federer and Pete Sampras worry about their legacies.

    Along the way, that old conundrum people have always asked -- how can Federer be considered the greatest of all-time if he can't even win the head-to-head showdown against Nadal the greatest rival of his generation? -- isn't really uttered much anymore. Federer is understandably showing his age, and out of the Top 5. But Nadal is heading toward No. 1 on the all-time Slam list like a bottle rocket.

    And it's the quality of these epic, must-see showdowns with Djokovic that may just allow him to close the last bit of ground he'll need to be regarded as best ever.

    Nadal has a 22-15 career won-lost edge against the Serbian star (compared to a 21-10 advantage over Federer). Nadal and Djokovic's five-hour, 53 minute Australian Open final last year pushed both of them to such a brink of exhaustion the two of them needed folding chairs just to survive the trophy ceremony after Djokovic won. Early this summer, Nadal's rally from a 2-4 hole to a 9-7 win in the fifth set of their French Open semfinal was equally memorable.

    Many people thought that showdown -- not Andy Murray's Wimbledon breakthrough at long last -- was the match of the year -- until this one, that is.

    Djokovic is worthy of a compliment that used to be said only about Nadal: You can't really kill him on court; you can only hope to survive a match against him.

    He has the stamina and resiliency and bravado to match Nadal. Like Nadal, he has a breathtaking variety of shots he can conjure up. And he has the guts to go for them: daring drop shots from the baseline; cross-court forehands that crack off his racket and pound down just inside the opposite corner of the court; passing shots that ride down the side rails on a low, hard line.

    Monday, he and Nadal threw everything they could think of at each other -- never moreso that during an incredible 54-stroke rally in the second set that Djokovic won to break Nadal's serve, then celebrated by strutting around like a prizefighter with both fists raised in the air.

    But Nadal broke Djokovic back the very next game. Djokovic leveled the match at one-set all anyway. He was still controlling the match until a two-game swing in the third that, as it turned out, decided everything. First, Nadal wriggled out of a triple breakpoint hole to hold serve. Then he broke Djokovic's serve and rolled on to win the third set. Djokovic didn't deny he sagged a little after that. He was angry at himself and weary of being outdone. And Nadal just pouring it on stronger in the fourth.

    Afterward, Nadal shook his head and said he'd amazed even himself this year. He admitted he never took winning anything for granted again when he got healthy. He recounted how that was not a given even in February of this year, when he began his comeback unsure what to expect after so many days in the gym with "No result."

    Surviving all that to flourish is what Nadal was referring to after the match -- after the tears, and after he'd thanked Djokovic -- when he said, "For a few [reasons], this season is probably the most emotional one in my career ... When Novak plays at that level, I am not sure if [anybody] can stop him."

    But Nadal did. Which only revived the argument that he's not just back on track in 2013. He's again headed toward being the greatest of all-time.
     
    #37
  38. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks for the laugh.
     
    #38
  39. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Yes, Laver, Rosewall, Gonzalez and Tilden are better candidates.
     
    #39
  40. ripitup

    ripitup Banned

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    ITA there. Laver is pretty much the undisputed GOAT for now, although Nadal might be on his way to changing that.

    Open Era GOAT is a 3 way race between Sampras, Nadal, and Federer. Each one has a case, and none is undisputed. All time Gonzales and Rosewall could also be argued against this trio though.
     
    #40
  41. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    We can all have our own opinions ...for example I believe Nadal is the goat but on the other hand I certainly see the logic in picking someone else.

    I think the matter is clearly up for debate and anyone who thinks otherwise is simply a blind fanatic.....of which we have at least nine of on this board.
     
    #41
  42. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Anti-Fedal, The Rocket, Muscles, Big Pancho and Big Bill are also my four GOAT candidates. But the majority of posters would disagree and refuse the facts. The voice of reason is silent, as a Vienna visionary, Sigmund Freud, once said....
     
    #42
  43. papertank

    papertank Hall of Fame

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    Right now, Fed is still undisputed GOAT. But it's looking like that will become arguable pretty soon.
     
    #43
  44. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    true dat, fed and lleyton for the win.
     
    #44
  45. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    I'm not Fed's fan. For the purpose of this thread, I woted Fed.
    Nadal still has work to do...
     
    #45
  46. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    ...and the only way anyone will share that platform is to win that stellar, ultimate achievement. In Federer's case, his fans should be satisfied that he's among the "best of the rest." Nothing more, nothing less.
     
    #46
  47. T-Noone

    T-Noone Professional

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    It has been arguable. Ever since the careers of guys like Laver, Lendl, and Sampras.
     
    #47
  48. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    I do not believe in the GOAT nonsense. distant eras simply cannot be compared.

    for me it is just a matter of comparing 2 players from the same era.

    it is simply a matter of determining who the hell is better between nadal and roger.

    I get asked that often but the answer is too bloody obvious.

    there was a time when roger was the best but he got overtaken by nadal.

    I don't see why this is such a difficult deal to grasp.

    you can do 2 things:

    1. just look at their head to head. then look at their head to head at slams.

    2. if all else fails then see how they fare against their greatest rivals.

    and don't let anybody sell you too much snake oil: it is all about head to head in this so very individual sport.

    and last time I checked, nadal, nole, and andy murray were from NOT from the different generation.


    I could not care less about who the hell is GOAT. it means nothing to me.

    I am here and now and this era is here and now. so this is the only era that has my attention.
     
    #48
  49. AngieB

    AngieB Hall of Fame

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    Grand slam singles titles are the holy graile of the sport. Those who have won the most should be historically rewarded. Weeks at number one, tournament wins, head-to-head, etc. should only be considered as an adjunct when two players are tied with the same number of GS events. When and if Nadal equals or surpasses Roger, he deserves it. Until then, its Roger Federer.

    AngieB
     
    #49
  50. Safinator_1

    Safinator_1 Professional

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    Thank you Bud, one of the few times i agree
     
    #50

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