Can we just get rid of Davis Cup already?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by jgunnink, Jan 31, 2006.

  1. jgunnink

    jgunnink New User

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    The only people who care about it are the McEnroes and some fans in Argentina. I think it's just a distraction now, the way the Olympics are a distraction for NBA players.

    Does anyone care who's country has the best team one year? (Or more accurately, which country was able to get more of their top ranked players to actually play and/or give a crap.)

    I used to get annoyed about Johnny Mac going on and on about how important it was for Pete and Andre to play Davis Cup. Why, so they can go to some play on carpet against a player with a highly partisan crowd and possibly get injured?

    With tennis being an individual sport, and with successful players living anywhere they choose (and not necessarily in their home country), the national pride thing in tennis rings a little false to me.

    I know this might be controversial to say, but I'm pretty apathetic about it. I can't remember the last time they even showed it on TV in the U.S.
     
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  2. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    I guess they should abandon Ryder Cup as well?

    I love Davis Cup and think it's unpatriotic for anyone to talk against it!!!!!!

    This agression won't stand, dude.
     
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  3. jgunnink

    jgunnink New User

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    Actually, I vote for getting rid of the Ryder cup too, and I'm a big golf fan. I don't care if the best of Europe can beat the best of the U.S. Golf, like tennis, is an individual sport.

    I have heroes in both sports, but they aren't all Americans. In fact, I hate the US media bias for not really caring about a grand slam final unless an American is in it.

    My favorite tennis players are Swiss and Russian. Somehow I don't care if Switzerland beats Russia in the Davis Cup.
     
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  4. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    Davis Cup rooocks, baby!!! :D
     
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  5. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    No!!!

    Davis Cup has some of the most exciting tennis you'll ever see. Love it!

    - KK
     
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  6. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    And fans in, from what I gather, most of the rest of the world besides the US :)

    Hey, if you don't care, don't watch it. If US players don't care about it, they can just not play in it - other countries do care and their players do participate.

    Yes - many countries do, and many countries can regularly get their best players to play.

    Ah. So you don't watch it, and therefore you think nobody should? Brilliant logic there...

    FYI, last time it was shown in the US was the last time they played, against Belgium in, I think, September.
     
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  7. Californication

    Californication New User

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    I love Davis Cup, and I love how enthused Roddick, Ginepri, Blake, and the Bryans are about it. While it will probably never happen, I am praying we can bring the Cup back home to the States.

    Other countries care about the Davis Cup. Note the record 27,000 who packed into Sevilla to see Spain crush the US and take the Cup in 2004. Note the enormous parade in Zagreb after Croatia won their first Davis Cup this past winter. And note, well note everything about Argentina.
     
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  8. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    I don't know Max, I get the sense that worldwide, davis cup is not what it used to be.
    Federer skipped Davis Cup 1st round last year to "concentrate on my number 1 ranking." He had a huge lead in the rankings at. The world 1 choosing not to play for his country says a lot. Hewitt is not playing the 1st round. Henman skipped some ties recently, as did Moya.
    It's really not just an American thing(being hard to get players to commit)
     
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  9. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    They need todo it like the soccer, hold it every 4 years. Davis cup basically means nothing now a days. Most players dont even live in the countries they are playing for.

    Personally i like davis cup, the more tennis to watch the better (i just wish espn were a better tennis network and would show non american ties).
     
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  10. simi

    simi Hall of Fame

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    Well, you aren't too apathetic about it because you spent the time and energy to post about it. The last tie that the Unites States played was shown on television here in the U.S. As MaxG. said, it was against Belgium and there was some pretty good tennis.

    We get too few matches broadcast as it is. It is really the only chance we have to see doubles (with the exception of the recent AO, where other issues came into play).

    Don't watch if you have no desire to. Some of us enjoy the competition.

    You get your wish, however. ESPN has indicated that they will not broadcast Davis Cup this year.
     
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  11. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    Get rid of the Davis Cup?! What next (God forbid!); the Kremlin Cup?

    We need cups. Imagine living in a world without:

    The Davis Cup
    The Ryder Cup
    The Stanley Cup
    The President's Cup
    The America's Cup
    The Breeder's Cup
    The FIFA World Cup
    The Canadian-American Challenge Cup
    The Hopman Cup
    The Ski World Cup
    The FA Cup
    The Rugby Union World Cup
    The Nextel (NASCAR) Cup
    The Calcutta Cup
    Buttercups
    Tea Cups
    Athletic Cups
    ('ow!)

    ---or even worse---

    The AA-Cup (*)(*) "hello, world!"

    The A-Cup (quiver)

    The B-Cup (wiggle)

    The C-Cup (jiggle)

    The D-Cup (w-wobble)

    The DD-Cup (wa-wa-wobb-b-ble)

    The DDD-Cup ("Er sweetheart, could you please shift a little?...you're sitting on grandma's nipples.")

    I say keep 'em. I revere cups and Revere bowls.
     
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  12. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    It is important outside the US. Both for the crowds and the government money it attracts indirectly in tennis funding.
     
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  13. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    You know that they get $100,000 per match, don't you?
     
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  14. austro

    austro Professional

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    Fully agree! ONly serves to bring out misplaced nationalistic feelings. I have no problem rootinng for Federer or Bags but I couldn't care less if Switzerland or Cyprus win the Davis Cup.

    I guess it doesn't count for individual rankings, so the best players often choose to eschew it. there are enough tournaments as it is.
     
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  15. devila

    devila Banned

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    Pat McEnroe, who didn't see that Olivier Rochus hit a winner on the line, told the umpire that the linesman called the ball out. The umpire gave Roddick a 4-2 lead in the 5th set without bothering to find out what happened. The cameramen, the crowd and American home fans knew the ball was clearly in. Roddick barely moved due to exhaustion and the Belgian captain taunted and laughed at Roddick. Days before, he mocked Roddick at the players' meeting. McEnroe did anything to cheat the opponents, and pretended that he did nothing wrong.
    Rochus was angry that McEnroe changed the umpire's decision.
    Brad Gilbert was worried that Pmc might lose his job as DC captain before that unjust call. After the match, Brad complained that Rochus was robbed.

    If you think that's patriotic, you're very misguided.
     
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  16. armand

    armand Banned

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    It's people like the OP that make me feel that if the U.S. dropped out of Davis Cup competition, it wouldn't surprise me.
     
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  17. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    I also love the fact that it's played on different surfaces in different venues. I love the fact that it's played indoors and outdoors. I love the fact that the home country gets to pick the surface. I love the fact that a guy playing at home ranked #388 in the world can go five sets with a guy ranked #1. And (Michael Haller pay attention to this) I love the fact that a guy who boycotted Wimbledon basically his whole career can come in with the visiting team and beat the #1 player in the world on his favorite surface.

    Davis Cup....it does rock.
     
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  18. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    defila - If you told me 2+2=4, I'd want a second and third opinion. So, without even researching your post ^^^ I choose to disbelieve it.

    - KK
     
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  19. Andy Hewitt

    Andy Hewitt Professional

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    People DO bring up strong points.... hmmm.... I say keep it.
     
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  20. devila

    devila Banned

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    As far as his mojo is concerned, Roddick has heard enough about it, and more than enough from Martens, who needled Roddick last Wednesday at the traditional dinner that precedes Davis Cup ties and is attended by officials of both countries and the ITF, the ruling world body of Davis Cup...
    http://www.protennisfan.com/2005/09/belgian_davis_c.html
    South Florida Sun-Sentinel: Roddick has mojo working
    Now it was Belgian Davis Cup captain Martens' turn to take a shot. "I guess you've been hearing about your mojo about 25,000 times," Martens was quoted by a member of the USTA staff as commenting at the podium during the dinner.
    "Yeah," Roddick replied icily from his table. "But not at this forum."

    Then, after a big point in the second set of the Rochus match Friday, Roddick turned toward Martens and screamed, "Keep talking."
    He was so upset by Martens' comments at the dinner, said a Davis Cup team spokesman, that when the team got back to the hotel in Brussels, Roddick went for a 20-minute cooling-down walk before going up to bed.

    Rochus played through six deuces to hold serve in the sixth game. He threw in a phantom swing at a Roddick shot that was clearly on its way out


    Rochus hit a very deep approach shot just inside the line to Roddick’s backhand. Roddick managed to get to it but could only hit a wounded duck that flew up in the air and just made it over the net. Rochus had plenty of time to set up and hit an easy overhead just inside the deuce court sideline. So far so good. After the point, though, the linesperson on Roddick’s side of the net walked up to the chair umpire and told him that she had called Rochus’ shot out. Rochus and Martens are outraged, as is almost everyone else in the building except Roddick, who is getting an unintended and desperately needed rest.

    in clay court matches, players are all over any ball that even looks like it’s going out. You can be sure that Roddick would have been right there to draw a ring around the mark if there had been any question.

    most puzzling of all, the chair umpire, Sune Alenkaer, didn’t overrule the call - he must have seen it just like everyone else in the house - and never left his chair to check the ball mark. All match long, whenever a player questioned a call, the chair umpire obligingly jumped out of his chair and ran over to the mark. Now, when it would have been crucial to do so, he doesn’t make a move.
    The chair umpire awarded the game to the US giving Roddick a 4-2 lead in the deciding set. The Belgian players are pissed, the home crowd is stunned, and the Americans, well, they’re very quiet. They know not to look a gift-horse in the mouth.
    After both players held serve, Roddick served his thirty-fourth and thirty-fifth ace to win the set and match, 6-7(4), 7-6(4), 7-6(5), 4-6, 6-3. With a courageous effort that included an exceptionally high number of aces on a clay court surface, Roddick managed to hang in there long enough to take advantage of an inexplicable mistake and win the tie for the USA in the longest match in Davis Cup history since the introduction of the tiebreaker.
    The US team didn’t celebrate. They circled Roddick, gathered up their belongings and got off the court as fast as possible.
    http://tennis.mostvaluablenetwork.com/2005/09/
    The nearly five-hour marathon of Olivier Rochus and Andy Roddick offered fresh example that the quest for the Cup requires too much of a few top players. Rochus had played best-of-five singles and doubles the two preceding days, while toward the end Andy was closer to exhaustion than I'd ever seen him. No wonder that Agassi, for example, is reluctant to spend a part of his remaining playing career in Cup matches. In my opinion, it would be wise to reduce Cup matches to best-of-three sets and to cut the top World Group to just eight nations (meaning just three weekends of play during the Cup year). Expanding each meeting to seven matches would compensate fandom for these reductions http://www.tennisserver.com/lines/lines_05_09_29.html
    http://www.tennis.com/Tennis_World_Blog/entry.asp?ENTRY_ID=224
    Roddick said, "To be honest, after what happened, it would have been unprofessional (to celebrate). The team came on court but I said 'Let's get out of here.' It wouldn't be right (to celebrate on court), especially because you don't want that quality a match to end like that."
     
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  21. Grimjack

    Grimjack Banned

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    Let's be serious here: any international team sporting competition won by Croatia needs to be re-evaluated for relevance.
     
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  22. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Yeh Davis Cup has some great tennis, like the final last year, you could see what it meant to the players.

    Ljubicic's performance against USA was amazing, his performance throughout the entire year was out standing going 11-1 I think it was. Only this could happen in Davis Cup!

    I'm sort of neutral when it comes to Davis Cup, not like Team Great Britain are setting the world alight ;) So looking from the outside, I think it should retain it's place :)
     
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  23. Yours!05

    Yours!05 Professional

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    http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,18005053-23216,00.html
    Because of its jingoistic appeal I believe it's one of the keys to the future of tennis. It's one thing that has a chance of bringing the US sports fan on board. And the support of the US sports fan is vital - to us anyway. If DC becomes the preserve of "new" countries we won't see DC ties and tennis will be hurt here.
     
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  24. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Yours, espn just dropped Davis Cup from its schedule(& they had been broadcasting it since 1979) due to poor ratings. So the majority of American tennis fans can't even watch davis cup now.
    its largely been an irrelevant event in the US since the mid 80s(which coincided with Mac stepping away from playing for the US)

    When the US last won the Cup in '95, it was largely ignored by the US media.
    Trust me, the US sports fan could care less about Davis Cup.
     
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  25. devila

    devila Banned

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    Why would the US team captain feel confident of winning all ties?
    He's paid quite a lot to stretch the truth for the media? He certainly can't coach. Neither singles player can recover from at least 10 months of unending match play. Blake isn't an all court player. Roddick cancelled a Memphis match because he didn't want to skip Davis Cup against Croatia. He did nothing and lost. Mike Bryan's injury and the doubles team contributed to the embarrassing loss against Ancic/Ljubicic.

    Why would a top 5 player endure 6-8 hours on the court? Without time to improve his game, he enters the regular tour only to lose ranking points due to injury and fatigue.
     
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  26. arosen

    arosen Hall of Fame

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    Davis Cup may not have the ratings in the US, but it attracts a large audience elsewhere, and it's the only national team competition in tennis with fans taking sides based on home team, not on players personality. It's awesome. Look what happened in Spain. It was like a football match, so many people came out to watch. Regular matches are never that involving.
     
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  27. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    Why?

    They beat a FULL-STRENGTH US team. No excuses there about US players not showing - Agassi and Roddick on singles, Bryan Brothers on doubles.

    Later, they beat a Russian team - Russia was lacking Safin, but because of injury not because of withdrawal...

    That's two tough teams, and if either one of them had won you wouldn't be saying "any international team sporting competition won by the US or Russia needs to be re-evaluated for relevance."

    Croatia also had some "easy" matches - beating Romania in the second round, and Slovakia in the final. (Slovakia had, along the way, beaten two of the other powerhouse teams in the draw, Spain and Argentina.)



    It sickens me that you think Davis Cup "should be re-evaluated for relevance" because it's won by someone other than who you expect. Because the teams you expect to win GOT BEATEN FAIR AND SQUARE.
     
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  28. uNIVERSE mAN

    uNIVERSE mAN Rookie

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    Davis Cup's frequency renders it meaningless, outside of the winning country (where it's celebrated for about 15 mins and then forgotten), no one gets any coverage whatsoever, for example, if this Davis Cup is such a big deal how come I never saw the finals? it wasn't on tv.
     
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  29. devila

    devila Banned

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    Everyone pressured Agassi to play. Mike Bryan and Roddick had hip and ankle injuries but their idol Agassi was finally with them at last. They couldn't resist playing. Agassi lost the match and the Bryans played badly on big points. Everyone knows who was blamed for the loss. Not Agassi.
     
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  30. Noelle

    Noelle Hall Of Fame

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    Kaptain, I think devila comes up with some good points sometimes. That post was one of them.
     
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  31. Yours!05

    Yours!05 Professional

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    I was thinking to try promoting it for its jingoistic appeal. I do understand about the emblematic "Joe Sixpack" - we have a version here. But somehow, in a land of huge Aussie Rules footy, and cricket, even the AO has become, like the Melbourne Cup (horse race) The Place To Be (and be seen), and I think about a sixth(?) of the population watched it.
     
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  32. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    You surprise me, Noelle. Here are some excerpts from that convoluted, disjointed, can't-decide-who-to-blame-so-blame-everyone, super-cynical post. (The one YOU think has good points....)

    So what? The Umpire's job is to check with the Linesman.

    Interesting verb choice.
    Maybe. Maybe not.

    I didn't see this, but Davis Cup certainly brings out the partisans.

    Oh really? "Anything???"
    Did he ... poison their Gatorade? ... whack a player's knee with a pipe? ... throw a racket to disrupt an easy put away? ... pay off some officials? ... encourage steroid use? ... teach the USA team how to get away with blood doping? ... assassinate a Rochus?

    No. Of course not. defila's posts are constantly laced with hyperbole. This one is no exception.

    Duh! That's Davis Cup.

    Hey, dummy! The Umpire ultimately makes the call; not any Coach.

    Great! One of the worst commentators to ever work the booth, and you elevate him to an authoritative position. (Figures...!)

    Big deal. Gilbert loves to stir the pot. Nothing new.

    .
    .
    .

    Yeah, Noelle. I can see why you admire this person's post so much. (Geez!!!)

    - KK
     
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  33. Noelle

    Noelle Hall Of Fame

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    Whoa, don't shoot the well-meaning messenger! I did NOT expect that sort of reaction, KK (although from your recent posts on this board, I should have). But check what you did say about the post when you actually broke it down.

    I didn't want you to miss the preceding by dismissing devila's post wholesale. Note that I never said I admired devila's post, but she brought up an interesting point about the ump not stepping off his perch to look at the mark.

    Then again, I shouldn't have expected you to put up with sifting through **** to find gold.
     
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  34. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    How come no-one called the OP a noob-troll?

    Here goes. OP = noob-troll

    Davis Cup is and has been the pinnacle of the sport. It's just no longer firmly in the grasp of the US and Australia. Sadly, that means the interest in the US is waning. As far as I can tell, the (US) players still care about it.
     
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  35. katarddx

    katarddx Semi-Pro

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    i am with you rabbit! if you ever watched davis cup ( and i mean outside of usa) you would understand what it means for some people. but i guess not all the countries and all the people are the same... anyone remembered Spain last year or Croatia this year? that was AWSOME!
     
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  36. grind

    grind New User

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    Davis Cup is more important on the continent and in South America than it is in the U.S. That doesn't mean it isn't a problem for American tennis. I mean Johnny Mac, US Davis Cup hero, lasted what, several months to a year as captain -- even Mac's attention span to this century-old event is limited to the relative time of a TV commercial. I've always thought combining Fed and Davis Cups would be a more interesting format. The combined tour events are definately the best, so i would seem to follow that a combined team/country event would be cool too! At least we would get to enjoy watching the other sex play.
     
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  37. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    I've had so much fun going to Davis Cup events over the years -- they are more than fun tournaments, BTW. It's on only the weekend. So you can do that, and spend the rest of your time in Paris, Nice, Barcelona, Sydney or whatever doing something else. Perfect combo -- pro tennis plus sightseeing in a great area of the world.

    But the most important thing is that you are there supporting your country. So it's an Olympic experience with two countries battling it out. And it's just a blast, I can't say anything more about it.

    Perhaps the scheduling and such needs to be changed to involve all the top players, but if someone offered me tickets to a Davis Cup final involving the US, or tickets to a slam final involving anyone else, I would be there to cheer on the USA. Wouldn't have to ask me twice.
     
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  38. jukka1970

    jukka1970 Professional

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    I don't think it's as much what team wins it, as fans get to see players that they usually wouldn't see. Some other posters have said it best when they say it draws more attention to the sport as well as needed funding. I mean yes it is a big deal which country wins it, but I think most people are focused on the new and upcomming players. Plus it also puts new names into commentators heads, which at times has caused them to show a match at the slams that normally wouldn't get covered.

    John
     
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  39. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    I'm with Susan and Rabbit on this one.... (Welcome back, Susan.)

    - KK
     
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  40. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    Thanks, KK. When you consider that I went to the USA vs. ESP final in Sevilla in 2004, while I was doing the Nadal site, but yet was in the stands waving the red-white-and-blue and cheering on Roddick against Nadal. Just shows you what country loyalty is all about. There's nothing else like it in tennis. Best bang for your tennis buck.
     
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  41. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    Well, to be honest, without all of those Cups you mention in the FIRST column ONLY, my life would not be any different-for better or worse. Now for the second column: I do like "B', "C" and "D" cups-A is a bit lacking and DDD is a bit over the...ahhhh...top for me. A world without those would create a vast and gaping void in my life.
     
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  42. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    Phil, Dedans and whoever, you can make fun of all the Cups you want, but if you go to a Davis Cup event where your country is featured (or some country you like is featured), it does have an Olympic atmosphere. It's electric.

    And what I love about Davis Cup is the fans react to every point as though it's match point. People at other events just kind of yawn and do a cursory clap here, even when a player wins a set. No so in Davis Cup. It's European soccer meets tennis, and it's so much fun. You get to bring out the horns, the clappers, and enjoy tennis in a way you can't at Wimbledon. The Queen would forbid it. But sometimes it's fun to enjoy tennis in a way the Queen would forbid. ;-)
     
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  43. peter

    peter Professional

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    To put things in perspective: The Swedish players get $0 per match for playing Davis Cup. And they like it that way.

    (I assume though that the Swedish Tennis Association pays for their accomodation and travel and stuff like that).
     
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  44. bluegrasser

    bluegrasser Hall of Fame

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    Dedans - LOL - funny cup analogy..

    If you're a real tennis fan, you have to love " Davis Cup" some of the best matches were at DC..
     
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  45. croatian sensation

    croatian sensation Professional

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    How dare u? Yes we care!!!!! Some people live outside US. In countries where tennis wasn't so popular until their team won the Cup. In countries that have only 5 000 000 inhabitants, and they now have 2 ATP tournaments because after the win tennis became so popular that the mayor of the capital decided to invest money to bring the 2nd tournament here. In countries where now maybe they'll build the first public court so that tennis stopps being affordable only to upper-class.

    To you it may be a distraction...but luckily in Croatia we still have players who will virtually perform miracles in the court when playing for their country (I know that I don't have to repeat that for the real fans out here but just for you..as you don't follow the DC- Ljubicic played his best matches of the year in the DC..the best one-against Roddick being played in..oh..look, it's a miracle-your country!) and the fans who will follow them all the way to Bratislava.
    I rarley say this..but thank God I live in a country where little things can still make you happy. Like the T-Shirt I bought yesterday..that says: CROATIA, DAVIS CUP WINNER 2005
     
    #45
  46. Grimjack

    Grimjack Banned

    Joined:
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    2,439
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    View Profile: croatian sensation 
    croatian sensation  
    [b]Amateur [/b]
    
    :rolleyes:
     
    #46
  47. Carley1986

    Carley1986 New User

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Messages:
    61
    I'm with the Davis Cup I guess. It kinda reminds me of watching the FIFA World Cup and The 'Olympics'. What I love about the Davis Cup is the atmosphere you get from the crowd. You get more excited crowds in davis cup than individual matches. And it's more about fun for the fans and the players. For example in the Davis Cup final, many people went to the federation square just to enjoy the match and cheer for the country where they were from (background) in the big screen. It's a chance for us to actually show our support for the country. And for the players it's actually a chance for them to show that they care for the country and not only themselves. If ya know what I mean.
     
    #47
  48. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
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    The High Country of Colorado
    This shoulda been a poll. The numbers are overwhelmingly *opposed* to the position of the OP.

    Good!

    - KK
     
    #48
  49. bc-05

    bc-05 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    648
    Hey Carley!!!
     
    #49
  50. Carley1986

    Carley1986 New User

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
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    61
    Hellow!! How are yah??
     
    #50

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